Aaron gets blown (or, the Top Secret Turbo Kit thread)

[markiii]

well it was removed in Niges if that helps

[SimonC_Here]

you bugger, mumble mumble, shakes fist in air, gets down on knees and begs Aaron for some tuning help  s:wink: :wink: s:wink:

Me first!  s;) s;)
Got to get rid of the lean problem.

I think I'll get a whole map done after I get the clutch fitted. At ~90k miles I'm worried about my engine.   s:oops: :oops: s:oops:  
Other than Aaron motorsports  s;) s;)  recomendations for tuning shops around here?


Simon

[markiii]

I'd still go to Thor at Kenilworth

[SimonC_Here]

Actually they are pretty close to me.
Thor it is then.

Simon

[markiii]

tell them it is actually there MAP and just needs tweaking for you car due to xxxx

at most should cost you £250

[philster_d]

awwwwwwww   s:( s:(

[SimonC_Here]

tell them it is actually there MAP and just needs tweaking for you car due to xxxx

at most should cost you £250

Sorry about wandering all over your thread Aaron!

Thor's website says £235 for a mapping session. Do we get a 10% off
that?

Just need the clutch...  s;) s;)

Simon

[markiii]

I doubt it but you can ask

[kanujunkie]

i've asked in the past, its a no on that one

[Anonymous]

Aaron, do you have EGT gauges?  I've mentioned this on spyderchat before -- a friend of mine has a lot of experience racing at the national level and tuning (big block Chevy, supercharged, does low 9s in the quarter mile).  I've shown him Copilot and he said he'd want to be able to tune for EGT (not AFR like Copilot does) for a blown engine.  That's what he does (all manually).  I don't recall what he has for an ECU, but he does have control over fuel and timing and his system compensates for weather and altitude (he has a "weather station" in his car).

Two ideas:

1. Add ability to read and convert an analog input to EGT, log it, replay it, display it (virtual gauge).
2. Add a Target EGT map and ability to auto tune for that.  

How to auto tune for EGT, though?  Just via changes to the base map, just timing, or both?

Copilot work has been coming to a close because there isn't much else to do, so I might want to add EGT-related features at some point.  I'm not sure when that would be.  (I'm waiting for more information about the Boost part of the Advanced Data packet (which has real data in it for some Power FC (not ours)) so the virtual boost gauge and all the other things related to Boost will work.)

[aaronjb]

I don't have an EGT gauge in the Roadster - though I do have two in the Nissan.

I always thought tuning-by-EGT was considered "Ghetto tuning" however - I only had them on the Nissan to serve as warning devices (and eventually I'll add one to the Roadster for the same reason).

For me, they are nice to have because they'll tell you if something has gone horribly wrong with your tune, even though your AFR is fine - for example if you retard the timing too much, you'll end up with EGTs that are sky high, even though your AFR looks just peachy.

Personally I wouldn't use them as my sole tuning tool.  For me they are affected by too many things (as I say, ignition timing, AFR and boost will all affect the EGT at the same time) - but maybe things are different in the Big Block world.


I imagine you'd have to tune just the base map based on EGT, as it would be virtually impossible to work out (or compute, rather) which way to go for timing based on the EGT.  I'd say that would come down to an 'educated guess' on the part of the RHB (Real Human Brain) doing the tuning, based on what they know about the engine in their car..


A virtual gauge & EGT log would be very useful, however - even for me  s:) s:)

[Anonymous]

I will have to talk with him again about to find out what his rules of thumb are.  It could be useful.   You can at least count on a virtual pyrometer/EGT gauge happening, probably within 2 weeks.

[kanujunkie]

just out of interest guys, is EGT really quick enough in response time to tune from?? or even accurate enough? would really surprise me if it was

[Anonymous]

I'm just guessing at this point, but I would say the approach would be to 1) set timing approximately right, based on what others have found to be good for this engine  2) set the AFR to what you want while at the same timing retarding timing as necessary to prevent knock from becoming a problem, 3) allow both AFR and timing to change (within limits) until the EGT was within the limits you establish.  EGT could be placed in maps like AFR is (average, minimum, maximum per cell).  So the program could consider the min, max, or average.  It could also do so only under certain conditions, like wide open throttle, engine has been running for X minutes, etc.  Beyond trial and error, I don't know what the technique would be to make the EGT higher or lower.  It makes sense to have a feature in an auto tuning program that would not allow EGT to be "too high" or "too low", however you define those paramaters.  I think I'll just put the gauge in for now.  I don't have as much free time anymore.

[Tem]

just out of interest guys, is EGT really quick enough in response time to tune from?? or even accurate enough? would really surprise me if it was

A good EGT gauge is very fast. When I accidentally left one injector unplugged once, the Greddy EGT gauge was quick enough to notice the cold pulses coming from that cylinder.  s8) s8)

No idea about the accuracy, cause I don't have a clue how accurate it should be for tuning.

[aaronjb]

I accidentally left one injector unplugged once

That sounds like something I'd do!  s:lol: :lol: s:lol:

[spit]

A good EGT gauge is very fast.

+1. My Greddy EGT saved the engine in the early days when the ECU was trying to reconcile mismatched O2 signals. Amazing how quickly temps rose towards 1000° just sitting in traffic  s:shock: :shock: s:shock:

[kanujunkie]

a good EGT gauge is very fast. When I accidentally left one injector unplugged once, the Greddy EGT gauge was quick enough to notice the cold pulses coming from that cylinder.  s8) s8)

No idea about the accuracy, cause I don't have a clue how accurate it should be for tuning.

that is quick i agree but i just dont see it being accurate and good enough for tuning, if it was a optical pyrometer then that would be a different thing altogether but i doubt you can get them for vehicles somehow

[freak_in_cage]

aaron- have just read through this entire thread! phew!!

from what i can see you have the turbo on but cant let her off the lead 100% until you get the chargecooler etc on- any idea when this will be happening?

what else do you plan on doing to the car handling wise??

think a quick youtube vid of its exhaust would be nice too!   s:D s:D

[aaronjb]

Well I'm still waiting on one piece before I can install the chargecooler (I need the expansion/header tank, and that's out of stock right now) - then I can get the boost wound up to ~8psi, tune properly and get some dyno time and finally see what it's actually putting down..

On the handling front there's not a lot left I can do really - I already have the full 3.0 Racing bracing set, Tein SuperStreet coilovers and sticky tyres.  I could add fully adjustable and bush-less lower arms at both ends, but I think all that would achieve is adding adjustability that is beyond my comprehension to adjust  s;) s;)  I'm no suspension geometry expert, by any means.

As for a vid.. well, if I had a video camera..  s:) s:)

[freak_in_cage]

ah- i didn;t know what level of bracing etc you had already

sounds like it will be a nice setup when finished- sure you dont want to commit yourself too much, but any ballpark figure on BHP output??

cant wait to hear about the result of this thing on a track!   s:D s:D

[aaronjb]

Well I'm pretty sure that the rest of the setup is good enough to push the engine well outside of it's survivable range of power - I'd say it could see 300 at the crank, more if I went crazy..

Except the stock chocolate-rods would snap pretty quickly around there  s;) s;)

Something similar to Mark's is where I'm aiming - high 200's.  I just have to resist the temptation to go for a 'glory figure' dyno run..


Well, the last required part of the chargecooler install turned up today:

Apologies for the dodgy camera phone pic - but that's the coolant reservoir (not a two-person bong, as my colleague suggested)

Now all I need to find is the time to actually install it, oh and get the bracketry to hold the chargecooler in place (I have that, but it's currently residing in Poole)

[edit] Damn - just remembered I still need the silicone couplers, too.. must measure that and get those ordered. Another three weeks before I can get this fitted, then  s:( s:(

[markiii]

get them ordered and lets get a diary date

[aaronjb]

So, almost a year on from the original arrival of the turbo kit, and half a year on from installation and the turbo kit finally gets some kind of charge cooling going on! Hurrah!

It's a small Pace rad at the front - might be a little too small, or it might be that the number plate currently obscures about 60% of the rad, but the temp doesn't fall quite as fast as I'd like:






The overall setup at the back is, from Turbo out:
ATP Turbo 51mm three-bolt outlet
135° 51mm silicone elbow (now wrapped in reflective fibreglass tape, since we singed it a bit of a brown colour on the first run!)
90° 51mm aluminium elbow
76mm-51mm silicone reducer
6x6" PWR barrel
76mm-70mm silicone reducer
70mm aluminium elbow
70mm straight coupler
70mm plain (non-vaned) MAF tube
70mm aluminium elbow to the throttle body



Rather a lot of yellow:


I ended up header-wrapping the exhaust manifold, too.  Hard to get a good wrapping on it with the pipes being so close together, and with it in the engine bay - even harder to spray seal it!:


The CC barrel hangs on two giant stainless steel P clips from the deck-lid latch mechanism bolt locations:



Inlet temperatures have reduced from some 65-70°C on WOT runs to 45°C peak after several prolonged runs through 2nd, 3rd, 4th and part way through 5th (:oops:), with cruising seeing temps from 25-30°C when mostly on vacuum on the motorway - down from a pre-CC average of 45-50°C.


Not a bad job, that, I reckon.  Now I need to sort the fuel mapping out (it's a little rich now the temps are cooler) and fit the boost control solenoid from the AVCR to map a solid 8psi as a first stop.

'course there's always the water/meth injection I could fit, too....


[edit] I should add;

Thanks to Mark & Chris (Mark for the garage and his spannering, Chris for her excellent hospitality!), Stu, Phil and Dan for their assistance over the weekend, and to everyone who stopped me from torching the car when it was acting up recently!

[Anonymous]

Love the ghetto solution on that 135 pipe  s:lol: :lol: s:lol:

Glad you got it up and running matey, are you going to try and find a more elegant solution to that bend? Or just leave it and see how it goes?