What oil are you using?

markiii · December 15, 2003, 18:41

The tile says it all please coment with Make, model and viscosity

Anonymous · December 15, 2003, 18:42

All i know is its Texaco (sorry, was put in at the service) s:oops: :oops: s:oops:

Anonymous · December 15, 2003, 18:54

Service bloke said Magnatec, receipt says 5W3

Neither really means a thing to me.

Peter Wright · December 15, 2003, 19:41

Do not use synthetic

I use Magnetec which I believe is 5W-30

There was lots of threads on this on the old board which I dont think you can access now

Pete s:)

s:)

markiii · December 15, 2003, 19:44

Peter,

I've been one of the people advocating against synthetic in the past as well, mainly as it burns without smoke, so you cannot see if it is.

However regular oil checks aside it will be the same viscosity as semi or dino juice if you pick it like for like, so I'm re-evaluating my original thoughts.

I'd be interested to hear your resaoning aginst it fi different from the above.

Peter Wright · December 15, 2003, 19:54

There are lots of views on this subject and at the end of the day (Ihate that expression) it must be best to follow what the manual says

However taken from archive

What is the proper type of oil to use in my car?

Marty believes (and has proved with personal tests) that synthetic oil is the best all around oil for cars.

He recommends Castrol Syntec 5w50 oil for most cars. This oil gives you the cold oil pressure you need and when the car warms up, it gives the protection of the 50 weight oil. No carbon based oil can do this. Synthetic oil saves gas (petrol), gives quicker starts, helps save weaker engines for a while.

The main thing to remember is to change oil every 3 months or 3,000 miles, no matter what. Use the correct oil weight for your car. This is usually in the owners manual and on the fill cover. If your car calls for 5w30, then use 5w30 in the cold winter time or you will have problems with your car. The old timers that tell you to us 10w40 all year long are outdated and have been proven wrong many times. If your car calls for 5w30 and you have tight valve clearances on your engine and you use 10w40 your car will not start in the winter time when it is cold because the valves will be held open too far from lifters being pushed too far by heavier, slower moving oil.

In other words I dont know !

The answer to your original question Magnetec 5W-30

Sorry

Pete s:(

s:(

SteveJ · December 15, 2003, 22:37

Interesting snippet from Gerald (Chief performance engineer at TTE and responsible for the development of the forthcoming turbo kit)........

He recommends a "20W60 fully synth oil, but this may prove hard to find and be rather expensive", so suggests using something like a 15W40 fully synth mainly because "Esso produces one and they are one of the prime sponsors of the F1 team"

Well that's let the feeline loose amongst the avians so I'll retire to watch the fun from a safe distance...... s:twisted: :twisted: s:twisted:

SteveJ · December 15, 2003, 22:50

Mark,

Can you post links to some of the articles you find whilst researching the problems experienced by people using Magnatec 5W30 for extended periods of time.

I would like to add that given the dramatic increase in oil consumption that I saw in my original (2001 40,000 mile) '2 when I switched to using Magnatec, along with the number of small oil leaks that developed around the same time, I am most definately going to be avoiding it at all costs in the future.

markiii · December 15, 2003, 23:18

Well heres one,

m http://www.mx6fun.sumy.ua/articles/auto ... change.htm m

I didn't bookmark most of them but if you googel magnatec problems and look past the first 5 pages or so yu start to get to some interesting stuff.

basically seem that it's great from cold (as per the bottle) but seems to get far to thin when heated up which ties in with the issies we bothe experienced with oil leakage around the timing chain tensioner, and possibly I'm still researching this the diesel like noise James Blackmore and myself are experiencing.

Also see this post from a MK2 tubby owner, scroll down to the il bit

m http://www.btinternet.com/~netsurf/mr2t/mr2tfaq.html m

the comments about magnatec appearing to be used easily by the engine are typical of what I'm finding.

Heres a link for some general oil info.

m http://www.chris-longhurst.com/carbibles/ m

I'm pretty sure I'm going to try a Mobil1 15w50 for an oil change over xmas and see if the noise gets any better, it's due anyway as, per our discussion magnatec gets very thin and dirty after 5000 miles.

Peter Laborne · December 15, 2003, 23:37

Toyota GB are adament that you should not use fully synth oil in your Roadsters. To quote them "it's too good".

They have said that most people who use FS oil notice an increase in oil consumption as it is so fine.

However the strange thing is that Jemca Toyota insist on using FS oil. This would then be interesting as I was told by Toyota GB that if you have used FS oil and this has, either directly or indirectly, caused problems then you may not be covered under your warranty.

markiii · December 16, 2003, 00:51

Granted, I also was advised not to use it by a dealer as it isn't noticeable when it burns.

However as for the too thin, i expect that is because most people who use fully synth end up with 0W something, Mobil1 for example is available in 0W40 and 15W50 I've never yet seen the latter as few places stock it. Consequently the assumption is that it's the fully synth thats the problem when in actual fact I think it's more that most people pick up very thin fully synth because that's all they see.

If you pick like for like viscosity surely theres no difference between fully synth and anything else?

mph · December 16, 2003, 09:33

Quote from: "SteveJ"Interesting snippet from Gerald (Chief performance engineer at TTE and responsible for the development of the forthcoming turbo kit)........

He recommends a "20W60 fully synth oil, but this may prove hard to find and be rather expensive", so suggests using something like a 15W40 fully synth mainly because "Esso produces one and they are one of the prime sponsors of the F1 team"

s:!: :!: s:!: s:oops: :oops: s:oops: That's a typo Steve, I've just re-checked my original notes - it should say 10W60 fully synthetic oil (which btw is just so happens to be what I already use).

Oh, and just to clarify - that specification is needed only for turbo cars, not NA.

mph · December 16, 2003, 09:40

Quote from: "markiii"If you pick like for like viscosity surely theres no difference between fully synth and anything else?

No there isn't, and your comment regarding available choice could well be near the mark.

The main reason that people are disuaded from using it is that there can be issues from switching from mineral to full synth based oils, especially in older cars, or very new cars. This is to do with the FS oils stripping away residues left by combustion of the mineral oils around the valves and rings, potentially leaving 'gaps' where detonation could occur. My knowledge on this is a bit vague, so best to search around.

Anonymous · December 16, 2003, 09:52

My 2p worth...

Rightly or wrongly, I've used Mobil1 0W40 for the last nearly-20k miles (the first 10k were on the original dino juice), and not noticed any problems; negligible consumption (only ever topped up less than a 1 litre bottle in that entire mileage, trackdays aside), no significant clatter, etc, etc.

I've certainly not read all there is to read on the subject, but I do remember reading some stuff that disproved the "synth is too thin" (even at 0W) theories. You can't have oil that is too thin; the thinner it is, the better it reaches all those hard-to-get-to places, especially when cold.

GSB · December 16, 2003, 10:39

Although I do use synth oil on a regular basis, (Shell Helix every 5000 miles - I forget the viscosity) having studied the properties of oil and its lubrication effects during periodic stripdowns of a slightly larger engine(Gas turbine - 500ton - 380,000bhp) I can honestly say that the lubricating medium is not nearly as important as the build tolerances of the parts being lubricated. If the parts in question are perfectly machined, and perfectly installed, then you could reliably lubricate with recycled Comma multigrade. The better refined stuff ("Synthetic" is a bit of a misnomer, it still comes out of the ground, the synthetic stuff is just better refined and gets a lot more care and attention when its made along with some of the choicer additives) is simply better at taking up the slack and keeping the less well made or installed metal parts from touching each other. Manufacturers have taken advantage of this by making things such as main bearings smaller to reduce overall engine sizes, the problem is than that oil is under far greater pressure...

The main thing to watch for is viscosity, as the engine will be designed with particular oil flows to particular places, messing with viscosity screws up all those flow rates, and too much oil in certain places can be as devastating as to little. (cylinder walls spring immediately to mind)

GSB · December 16, 2003, 10:49

Incedentaly, not using synth oil "because you cant see it when it burns" s:roll: :roll: s:roll:

1. You can see it quite clearly when it burns. Long ago I had an Escort turbo that did 140,000 miles on Mobil 1, changed religously at 6000 mile intervals, and I can assure you that when it was struck down with one of its more expensive mechanical calamities, the smoke was quite visible.

2. If your burning oil, then you're a long way past where changing the oil is going to make any difference to your engines health!

One day, perhaps dealers will shock us all by employing a few more people who actually know about cars!

Peter Laborne · December 16, 2003, 11:06

Quote from: "pmdye"You can't have oil that is too thin; the thinner it is, the better it reaches all those hard-to-get-to places, especially when cold.

Yep, the better it is at reaching those hard-to-get-to places, especially those hard-to-get-to places that you really don't want it to get to.

Any small hole or worn down part and FS oil will find its way through.

aaronjb · December 16, 2003, 11:12

Quote from: "GSB"1. You can see it quite clearly when it burns. Long ago I had an Escort turbo that did 140,000 miles on Mobil 1, changed religously at 6000 mile intervals, and I can assure you that when it was struck down with one of its more expensive mechanical calamities, the smoke was quite visible.

Yes, I can attest to that one too - both when the turbo in my Ren 5 GTT expired (twice! ahem. Oops) and when I was p****ng oil out of the 300ZX.. Rather good at making smokeclouds s:)

s:)

I've always used fully synth in my cars - Mobil 1 0W40 in the Renault 19 16v (good engines, large tolerance though, and always burnt oil, no matter what the viscosity - next owner managed to shear the flywheel off the crank though! s:shock: :shock: s:shock: ), Mobil1 15W40 in the Ren 5 GT Turbo, Castrol RS 10W60 in the 300ZX.. '2 is currently running on whatever the dealer put in it, though, as it's still under warranty..

Several of those engines had been stripped down and inspected - and none showed any signs of oil-related wear..

Slacey · December 16, 2003, 11:22

I'm not sure what's in mine s:oops: :oops: s:oops: , it's whatever my dealer uses.

After all the horror stories from SC in the old days, I'm a bit sceptical of using synth, and as Aaron said, while it's under warranty I'm cool with whatever the dealer does use. Might find out just out of interest though...

Anonymous · December 17, 2003, 12:47

First 10K - whatever Toyota filled it with ( a semi-sythetic I believe)
Thereafter have used Mobil 1 0W-40 s:shock: :shock: s:shock: s:shock: :shock: s:shock: s:)

s:) for the following 2 services.

Fine so far, no oil consumption.

Re: the debate on engine wear vs oil type IMHO change filter and oil regularly and don't abuse the engine when cold is probably more important than which branded oil you use (assuming it meets the necessary standards in the manual).

Anonymous · December 17, 2003, 13:32

on a simple matter, foes anyone know what the original car oil is and when should the first change take place? should it be at first service or sooner? s:?: :?: s:?:

Slacey · December 17, 2003, 14:42

Quote from: "colindanks"on a simple matter, foes anyone know what the original car oil is and when should the first change take place? should it be at first service or sooner? s:?: :?: s:?:

Not sure on the type of oil, but the first change is at 10k miles or the first year, so the first service.

Tem · December 17, 2003, 14:55

Quote from: "Slacey"Not sure on the type of oil, but the first change is at 10k miles or the first year, so the first service.

Over here they recommend an oil+filter change after 3000km's break in period. And then the 1st normal oil change at 15km/1year service (counting from zero, not from the extra oil change).

Anonymous · December 18, 2003, 18:23

Quote from: "pmdye"My 2p worth...

Rightly or wrongly, I've used Mobil1 0W40 for the last nearly-20k miles (the first 10k were on the original dino juice), and not noticed any problems; negligible consumption "synth is too thin" (even at 0W) theories. You can't have oil that is too thin; the thinner it is, the better it reaches all those hard-to-get-to places, especially when cold.

That's true. You can't have a oil too thin.
Toyota Portugal recommends for the mr2 Mobil 1 (0-40).
I use it and get negligible consumption, not to say, no consumption.

markiii · December 21, 2003, 13:24

Interesting take on Synthetic v Dino juice. The quote below s from an SCC article on tuning the RX7, however the cat issue probably applies especially with teh known fact that toyota don't use very high quality cats.

Dino or Synthetic motor oils? That's the big question. While Mazda Corp. has officially forbid the use of synthetic motor oils in their rotary engines, Mostly Mazda strongly recommends the use of Redline synthetics products, in the motor, differential and in the transmission. The unofficial "inside story" behind Mazda's statement is quite interesting. Apparently, in the early 1980s, Mazda's racing team had lubrication problems using a certain brand name synthetic motor oil. Instead of disclosing the particular oil brand and potentially getting faced with a lawsuit, Mazda made an unfair general statement, suggesting that all synthetic oils were incompatible with their rotary engines. Redline motor oils have been successfully used in rotary race motors for nearly two decades. Their motor oils offer improved film strength over other motor oils, synthetic or non-synthetic. Synthetics also extend the life of the turbochargers by resisting bearing "coking" typically associated with traditional oils. We used Redline 10W/40 high performance motor oil for Project RX-7. At over six dollars a quart, it is hardly inexpensive. However, a good motor oil is the best insurance against premature engine wear.

Evidence supports that synthetic oils may not burn as cleanly as dino oils. According to Mostly Mazda, this residue may potentially cause premature clogging of the catalytic converter over a very long period of time. This relatively minor problem is easily remedied by catalytic converter replacement. Such maintenance is far less expensive and time consuming than replacing engine or turbo damaged by insufficient lubrication.