Crower Cams, Apexi & A Zero

rtbiscuit · October 30, 2007, 12:58

danny, sorry your car is not the fastest 1zz n/a.

cumbrian chris has one with ITB's on and it pushes out 185 bhp i think.

the idea is not dead, just lack of communication on both our parts.

need to get back in contact as he is due to send me the readout.

as far as i know the project is now in the testing phase. basically is girlfriend is putting about 10,000 miles on it to see how it copes. s:roll: :roll: s:roll:

DannyN · October 30, 2007, 13:02

Quote from: "rtbiscuit"danny, sorry your car is not the fastest 1zz n/a.

Oh well worth a try...

Quote from: "rtbiscuit"basically is girlfriend is putting about 10,000 miles on it to see how it copes. s:roll: :roll: s:roll:

Thats one hell of a way to test it - guaranteed girlfriend proof!

northernalex · October 30, 2007, 13:09

Quote from: "DannyN"
Quote from: "rtbiscuit"danny, sorry your car is not the fastest 1zz n/a.quote]

Oh well worth a try...

Quote from: "rtbiscuit"basically is girlfriend is putting about 10,000 miles on it to see how it copes. s:roll: :roll: s:roll:

Thats one hell of a way to test it - guaranteed girlfriend proof!

Danny has the fastest "BLACK" 1zz in the country s:)

s:)

Ahh so rich, he's better now after his motorcycle accident?

Alex

rtbiscuit · October 30, 2007, 13:10

if it all goes well, and he goes ahead with a full production of this, i'm sure you'll be one of the first up there.

your not that far from the lakedistrict. s:wink: :wink: s:wink:

DannyN · October 30, 2007, 13:29

Rich
I travel up there about 3 times a month with work s:wink: :wink: s:wink:

Rob
I still have an annoying rattle through 3k revs and I'm not happy s:cry: :cry: s:cry:
But the car is going in for its MOT on the 15th so I will get them to have a proper look at it. It only vibrates under load so I cant replicate it on the drive!

ChrisGB · October 31, 2007, 19:53

The more I think about this, the more I like the idea of the cams and Emanage with the PPE manifold and cat. I really must resist the urge to go 2zz next year and this would help.

How many hours labour for fitting of the cams?

As for the ITBs, they may be responsible for the power of cumbrainchris's car, but we know almost nothing of the rest of his setup, so would reserve judgement. What I do know is that the ITB idea may not be cost effective (figures around £2500 where being spoken of) but an inlet manifold consisting of the stubs in a plenum without the throttles should give the same BHP gains but stock levels of throttle response. This would be much cheaper to produce and easier to fit. It is generally the way engine builders do this for road cars.

Edit: Where are the curves!!! s:wink: :wink: s:wink:

Chris

DannyN · October 31, 2007, 20:10

Quote from: "ChrisGB"Edit: Where are the curves!!! s:wink: :wink: s:wink:

Oops sorry about that I've been on a crummy course all day at work so never got to use the scanner but in the short term I've taken a picture - hope this helps/is good enough

Also I know this graph is from friday and he did tune it again on the saturday to play with the fuelling so I'm trying to find out if there is a more upto date graph

northernalex · October 31, 2007, 22:08

Looks great but the torque curve looks degenerate at low revs s:)

s:)

So how much would oen need to spend to get a curve like that

DannyN · October 31, 2007, 22:12

Quote from: "northernalex"Looks great but the torque curve looks degenerate at low revs s:) s:)

So how much would one need to spend to get a curve like that

Well I would definately suggest that you didnt do it the way I did cos it cost me a bl**dy fortune s:D

s:D

ChrisGB · October 31, 2007, 22:48

Hmm no nasties there, a very smooth curve and looks very drivable. Noticed any increase in thirst?

Chris

DannyN · October 31, 2007, 22:53

To be honest I havent checked, when I next fill up I'll do the math and see what its consumption is.

DannyN · October 31, 2007, 22:55

Quote from: "ChrisGB"Hmm no nasties there, a very smooth curve and looks very drivable.
Chris

That is all down to Chris at Hypersports, thats the way he like to tune his cars. He doesnt go for just big bhp numbers but instead strives for a great smooth torque

aaronjb · October 31, 2007, 22:57

Nice numbers Danny s:)

s:)

Incidentally, I don't suppose you have an AFR trace, do you?

DannyN · October 31, 2007, 22:59

Quote from: "aaronjb"I don't suppose you have an AFR trace, do you?

No mate sorry

aaronjb · October 31, 2007, 23:01

Bah.. what use are you then! s:P

s:P s;)

s;)

ChrisGB · October 31, 2007, 23:03

I am now seriously into the idea of the Crower cams in the otherwise stock engine. E Manage blue would be my preference for mapping. The torque seems to fall off quite steeply once peak is passed, as would be expected with the 4>2>1 manifold. Both yourself and Rob seem to lose around 20lb/ft going up toward peak power. I am very curious as to how the torque will tail off with the PPE setup. I may be able to see a conservative 140lb/ft in the midrange, but if that only drops around 6lb/ft by peak power (as it does at the moment with stock everything else), that would leave me with 173 bhp. Definitely worth a punt.

Need to start saving now. That kind of output makes for good BHP/£ ratio compared to 2ZZ swap.

Chris

Anonymous · November 1, 2007, 06:08

Quote from: "ChrisGB"I am now seriously into the idea of the Crower cams in the otherwise stock engine. E Manage blue would be my preference for mapping. The torque seems to fall off quite steeply once peak is passed, as would be expected with the 4>2>1 manifold. Both yourself and Rob seem to lose around 20lb/ft going up toward peak power. I am very curious as to how the torque will tail off with the PPE setup. I may be able to see a conservative 140lb/ft in the midrange, but if that only drops around 6lb/ft by peak power (as it does at the moment with stock everything else), that would leave me with 173 bhp. Definitely worth a punt.

Need to start saving now. That kind of output makes for good BHP/£ ratio compared to 2ZZ swap.

Chris

Hi Chris

Spoke with Crower about the expected increases from the cams, they estimate about 8 to 10 BHP increase and the same for torque. Where does the 173 BHP come from?

Rob

Anonymous · November 1, 2007, 06:15

The other interesting point is the starting torque, we both start at the same level - about 130 ftlbs at 1650rpm, then you can see the cam taking over giving the higher output and a better line.

If I can get over 150 ftlbs mid range from a standard piston / block set-up, I will be well happy.

Rob.

Wabbitkilla · November 1, 2007, 06:24

Remember Rob & Danny have PFC and you couldn't achieve the same result with e-Manage blue, it has no cam vvti control. I'm a fan of e-Manage myself but realise i'd need to add v-Manage to get anywhere near this as i've already invested (v-Manage isn't ready for the 2 as far as I know - yet). I'd solidly recommend PFC if you're considering the Crowers to take most advantage.

northernalex · November 1, 2007, 11:03

Quote from: "Wabbitkilla"Remember Rob & Danny have PFC and you couldn't achieve the same result with e-Manage blue, it has no cam vvti control. I'm a fan of e-Manage myself but realise i'd need to add v-Manage to get anywhere near this as i've already invested (v-Manage isn't ready for the 2 as far as I know - yet). I'd solidly recommend PFC if you're considering the Crowers to take most advantage.

Shame, as that puts the price up considerably s:(

s:(

Still, fantastic result Danny s:)

s:)

aaronjb · November 1, 2007, 11:24

Quote from: "northernalex"Shame, as that puts the price up considerably s:( s:(

Considering what you're paying for the cams + installation, it's hardly 'considerably'..

Emanage - £200
Boomslang harness - £150

PFC+Commander - £400

northernalex · November 1, 2007, 13:22

Quote from: "aaronjb"
Quote from: "northernalex"Shame, as that puts the price up considerably s:( s:(

Considering what you're paying for the cams + installation, it's hardly 'considerably'..

Emanage - £200
Boomslang harness - £150

PFC+Commander - £400

I should have said "puts the price up considerably for me" Aaron as I already have emanage and harness .. but yeah the prices are similar if you buy new.

Thinking out loud again.

Alex

Wabbitkilla · November 1, 2007, 13:43

Quote from: "northernalex"I should have said "puts the price up considerably for me" Aaron as I already have emanage and harness .. but yeah the prices are similar if you buy new.

Thinking out loud again.

Alex

No problem with that here Alex s:wink: :wink: s:wink:
You could sell your EM Blue and harness and buy the PFC, do you really need the commander if you're staying NA? But then, you living in Newcastle would need to buy an after market immobiliser so need to factor that in. Or you could contact Trust and find out when they're going to have the v-Manage ready for the roadster. Someone mentioned a work-around for the 1ZZ-FE application, but i've seen no details. That might be the most economical option (something I'm considering)

Anonymous · November 1, 2007, 13:50

Speaking of cost, how much was it for the cams, any other essential componenets (shims, seals etc.) and installation s:?: :?: s:?:

aaronjb · November 1, 2007, 15:43

Gotcha Alex, I forgot you'd already bought the EM Blue s:)

s:)

Nic - you don't need the commander, I suppose, but I like the ability to do the logging and graphing without needing to plug a laptop in (and buy the Datalogit, of course)