Japanese Performance Mag (Pre Cats)

Peter Wright · November 8, 2007, 16:10

The above magazine out today states
"Beware excessive manifold vibration which will cause the pre-cats in the manifold to crumble and damage the engine"
First I've heard of that way but could be true
Pete

Anonymous · November 8, 2007, 16:55

Considering just how weak we know the pre-cats to be that's certainly the way I see it happening, especially on post-03 cars.

Silverman · November 8, 2007, 18:32

Quote from: "Ekona"Considering just how weak we know the pre-cats to be that's certainly the way I see it happening, especially on post-03 cars.

Sure you mean "post 03" cars?? s:? :? s:?

Anonymous · November 8, 2007, 19:01

Yup. Pre facelift cars had the oil ring issue, post ones didn't.

andywood · November 8, 2007, 19:04

When I bought mine, I remember reading on honest-john website that there was a known quality issue:

'Complaints of pre-cat in exhaust manifold breaking up and debris being sucked into engine. Caused by "excessive acceleration - deceleration when the engine is cold causing vibration of the manifold and the cat matrix moving in its holding mat, then breaking up. Holding mat improved from October 2001, VIN ...0043748. For older cars, new manifold available and some possibility of goodwill from Toyota towards the cost. More on this at w www.mr2roc.org' w

Anonymous · November 8, 2007, 19:13

End of the day, the pre-cats are crap and if left in can kill your engine. Anyone who willingly leaves them in is pretty much a nubcake.

Sorted. s8)

s8)

Silverman · November 8, 2007, 19:43

How many cases do we know of when post 03 pre cats have failed and destroyed the associated engine?

fstsven · November 8, 2007, 20:05

I think we can safely say that post-facelift cars are unaffected. There may have been one or two cases of engine failure in these cars, but I'm pretty sure that's the case for any car. We all know however that there was the (still relatively small) possibility of the precats going pop on earlier cars. On my previous car (a 2000) I removed the precats as a precaution, in this one (mid-2004) I'm leaving them alone.
By the way, my brother is thinking of buying a mid-'02 (pre-facelift): anyone know what the engine-going-pop statistics on these are? (I believe the oil rings where updated from '02 on?)

Anonymous · November 8, 2007, 20:06

Pass. My precats failed on my '53 car twice though, but I caught it in time luckily.

*EDIT* Post facelift cars are definitely affected. See above sentence. s;)

s;)

fstsven · November 8, 2007, 20:14

Seems I may have to reconsider then... s:? :? s:?

Silverman · November 8, 2007, 20:21

Quote from: "fstsven"I think we can safely say that post-facelift cars are unaffected. There may have been one or two cases of engine failure in these cars, but I'm pretty sure that's the case for any car. We all know however that there was the (still relatively small) possibility of the precats going pop on earlier cars. On my previous car (a 2000) I removed the precats as a precaution, in this one (mid-2004) I'm leaving them alone.
By the way, my brother is thinking of buying a mid-'02 (pre-facelift): anyone know what the engine-going-pop statistics on these are? (I believe the oil rings where updated from '02 on?)

Thank you "fstsven", my friend - clearly you and I are NOT 'nubcakes!!'
Flogging cold engines to death will result in just that! My baby is still under extended warranty and the pre cats stay in situ until I have more evidence from the centre right of the party - so as to speak... s:wink: :wink: s:wink:

Anonymous · November 8, 2007, 20:22

I would mate. Considering that one manifold had cracked precats in 2 days and just 37 miles after it was installed by Toyota themselves after the first one went...!

Anonymous · November 8, 2007, 20:22

Quote from: "Silverman"Thank you "fstsven", my friend - clearly you and I are NOT 'nubcakes!!'
Flogging cold engines to death will result in just that! My baby is still under extended warranty and the pre cats stay in situ until I have more evidence from the centre right of the party - so as to speak... s:wink: :wink: s:wink:

Would you like to reconsider as well? s;)

s;)

Silverman · November 8, 2007, 20:36

Quote from: "Ekona"
Quote from: "Silverman"Thank you "fstsven", my friend - clearly you and I are NOT 'nubcakes!!'
Flogging cold engines to death will result in just that! My baby is still under extended warranty and the pre cats stay in situ until I have more evidence from the centre right of the party - so as to speak... s:wink: :wink: s:wink:

Would you like to reconsider as well? s;) s;)

Not at all. I think the MR2 has suffered a great deal of reputational harm by this wild hype about pre cats. There are many owners happily driving around the UK, in good mileage '2's, who've never heard of pre cats.

Anonymous · November 8, 2007, 20:49

It does't matter how many times you toss the coin and get 'heads'; there is still a 50 / 50 chance that the next one will be 'tails' s:wink: :wink: s:wink:

Anonymous · November 8, 2007, 20:51

True, and then there's the rest of them who find this place when their engine goes pop. How many have we seen this past few months? 3? 4? 5? I can't remember, and that's only the few who find this place. It's no wild hype as you put it, it's a fact that the pre-cast used in the '2 are cheap pieces of crap that can break down and cause serious damage. Does it happen to all cars? No. Does it happen enough to make you think that leaving them in is a bad idea? Apparently not.

I can't honestly understand the logic of leaving something in place that you know could damage your car, especially when the fix is so easy. Still, each to their own.

Anonymous · November 8, 2007, 20:57

Sman, my 06 had 11 miles on it when i bought it, within a furter 200miles my manifold was replaced with a che.
Im with Ekona.

Anonymous · November 8, 2007, 21:00

Quote from: "Ekona"True, and then there's the rest of them who find this place when their engine goes pop. How many have we seen this past few months? 3? 4? 5?

Dan

Spot on mate - I was thinking exactly the same. If you love your "baby" so much why take the risk, I took the dam things out when the car was 12 months old and never looked back since - Toyota did not have a problem with me removing the manifold - it's a bolt on item - remember they also offer an aftermarket manifold as well.

In fact my cars had that many different changes of suspension, exhaust bracing etc Toyota thought it was great.

Rob

Peter Wright · November 8, 2007, 21:07

Quote from: "Ekona"I can't honestly understand the logic of leaving something in place that you know could damage your car, especially when the fix is so easy. Still, each to their own.

Yeah, not only that but as soon as I removed the pre-cats there was a definate freeing up of the engine which mede me feel more comfortable with the car and a much better sound
Pete

mr2jw · November 8, 2007, 21:27

i have had my mr2 for 6 years, 40k on the clock. only discovered mr2roc last year whilst trying to find a solution to why i had water in my luggage bins s:? :? s:? ! read about pre-cats, finally got round a few months ago to whipping them out as i had been a bit worried especially as the car gets older, i have to say they looked in fantastic condition and took a fair amount of effort to break up but i am very relieved they are gone.

now i just worry about the rings! s:lol: :lol: s:lol:

Silverman · November 9, 2007, 12:27

Quote from: "Peter Wright"Yeah, not only that but as soon as I removed the pre-cats there was a definate freeing up of the engine which mede me feel more comfortable with the car and a much better sound
Pete

"...and a much better sound." Has anyone else noticed this?

I have to draw stumps (they're mine, and the bat and ball!) on this and agree that more of you are agin than for. The matter is almost Club policy, in fact - so why hasn't our Hon Sec (or someone) taken the matter up with MrT for an official answer to the ROC viewpoint? If this has been done in the past, I apologise, but my search could only find the views of individuals.

andywood · November 9, 2007, 12:33

Yep, defo sounds better without them nasty little things in there s:D

s:D

roger · November 9, 2007, 12:52

Quote from: "Silverman"so why hasn't our Hon Sec (or someone) taken the matter up with MrT for an official answer to the ROC viewpoint?

Brian, have you ever tried to get a Corporation to admit it's made a mistake, which could cost it £millions in recompense? Look whats happening at the moment on Watchdog re Vauxhall hand brakes. They were given technical and competant engineering reports, and they still haven't admitted anything is amiss.

At least MrT acknowledges that engines will blow up, and have therefore accepted that under certain circumstances they will replace anything under 7 (I think) years old.

All the Club "line" is saying (and there is nothing official line from MrT), is that pre-cats are one of the items damaged when an engine blows. Whether its cause or effect, who knows? Probably it can be both.

But taking them out may just alleviate a problem that might just happen in under 5% of cars, of which yours might just be one. If it does you will never know, if it doesn't it gives one less place to lay the blame and make it just that bit easier to get a new engine (may be).

Silverman · November 9, 2007, 19:51

Quote from: "roger"
Quote from: "Silverman"so why hasn't our Hon Sec (or someone) taken the matter up with MrT for an official answer to the ROC viewpoint?

Brian, have you ever tried to get a Corporation to admit it's made a mistake, which could cost it £millions in recompense? Look whats happening at the moment on Watchdog re Vauxhall hand brakes. They were given technical and competant engineering reports, and they still haven't admitted anything is amiss.

At least MrT acknowledges that engines will blow up, and have therefore accepted that under certain circumstances they will replace anything under 7 (I think) years old.

All the Club "line" is saying (and there is nothing official line from MrT), is that pre-cats are one of the items damaged when an engine blows. Whether its cause or effect, who knows? Probably it can be both.

But taking them out may just alleviate a problem that might just happen in under 5% of cars, of which yours might just be one. If it does you will never know, if it doesn't it gives one less place to lay the blame and make it just that bit easier to get a new engine (may be).

Good stuff, Roger, I take your points....

I think my problem stems from the fact that as a little lad, living on Merseyside in the 1940's, I suffered frequent sore throats - unlike the earache I give you lot! Our local GP said, "Out with his tonsils!!" My mother was none too sure and so she paid £10 -£15, which we could ill afford, to see an ENT specialist in Rodney Street, Liverpool. (A centre of medical excellence in those days where the finest ships officers and shipping company nobs (execs s:wink: :wink: s:wink: ) received their private treatment.) The ENT specialist made a fairly quick examination of my throat before loudly announcing "LEAVE 'EM IN." I've had no problems since.

broudie · November 9, 2007, 20:04

Quote from: "Silverman"
Quote from: "roger"
Quote from: "Silverman"so why hasn't our Hon Sec (or someone) taken the matter up with MrT for an official answer to the ROC viewpoint?

Brian, have you ever tried to get a Corporation to admit it's made a mistake, which could cost it £millions in recompense? Look whats happening at the moment on Watchdog re Vauxhall hand brakes. They were given technical and competant engineering reports, and they still haven't admitted anything is amiss.

At least MrT acknowledges that engines will blow up, and have therefore accepted that under certain circumstances they will replace anything under 7 (I think) years old.

All the Club "line" is saying (and there is nothing official line from MrT), is that pre-cats are one of the items damaged when an engine blows. Whether its cause or effect, who knows? Probably it can be both.

But taking them out may just alleviate a problem that might just happen in under 5% of cars, of which yours might just be one. If it does you will never know, if it doesn't it gives one less place to lay the blame and make it just that bit easier to get a new engine (may be).

Good stuff, Roger, I take your points....

I think my problem stems from the fact that as a little lad, living on Merseyside in the 1940's, I suffered frequent sore throats - unlike the earache I give you lot! Our local GP said, "Out with his tonsils!!" My mother was none too sure and so she paid £10 -£15, which we could ill afford, to see an ENT specialist in Rodney Street, Liverpool. (A centre of medical excellence in those days where the finest ships officers and shipping company nobs (execs s:wink: :wink: s:wink: ) received their private treatment.) The ENT specialist made a fairly quick examination of my throat before loudly announcing "LEAVE 'EM IN." I've had no problems since.

The difference though is that decatting can cost nothing if you do it yourself. In my opinion it's also a good way to gain familiarity with the car. Even if you never get precat death syndrome if you had left them on, you at least would have peace of mind and not be wasting your time on threads like this.