Precat-related engine death

Jaik · November 21, 2007, 12:56

I've only had my car a month or so and to cut a long story short, it's fallen victim to the precat problem. It was at my local dealership yesterday for a proper diagnosis and the mechanic said it was the recognised "oval cylinder" problem. The car is unfortunately 7 years and 6 months old, so is not covered by the extended warranty.

I've tried calling Toyota GB and pleading my case, that the car isn't high mileage with 75k on the clock and has a full dealer history. The woman basically gave an outright "no". Does anyone know who it is best to call to try and get some help on this from Toyota. I'm facing a huge bill to fix a manufacturing/design problem with an engine they have built just because the car is a few months too old, despite the reasonable mileage and service history I mentioned.

If Toyota can't help me then I will have to rag the thing until it goes pop to claim on the warranty I have with the car.

Liz · November 21, 2007, 14:19

I would hope that you are joking when you suggest ragging it until it dies, this could put you and road users in danger s:shock: :shock: s:shock: .
Why can't you claim on the warranty now - surely it covers engine failure?

Anonymous · November 21, 2007, 14:54

sorry nothing to do with your engine failure but I can see a Cappuccino in your avatar!

back on subject sorry to hear of another one going the way of the ovalness s:(

s:(

Jaik · November 21, 2007, 18:25

Liz, yes, I wouldn't really do that. However, the warranty (like most on used cars) is ridiculously specific, and will only cover the car if it experiences a "stoppage of function", and not if you have driven the car under the knowledge that it's got a problem. Eg, I'm ballsed.

Germy; the Cappuccino is my other car (which I'm currently selling). That photo was from the Furball 5000 earlier this year.

SteveJ · November 21, 2007, 18:46

TBH, I cant see Toyota changing their minds - they are currently offering a 7 year warranty voluntarily - they have no obligation whatsoever to do this.

They have to draw the line somwehere, because if they make an exception for you, then someone else will expect them to honour it for another couple of months and so on until they are replacing engines in cars that are 10+ years old. This would almost certainly result in the 7 year good-will gesture being withdrawn.

Jaik · November 21, 2007, 18:53

Quote from: "SteveJ"TBH, I cant see Toyota changing their minds - they are currently offering a 7 year warranty voluntarily - they have no obligation whatsoever to do this.

They have to draw the line somwehere, because if they make an exception for you, then someone else will expect them to honour it for another couple of months and so on until they are replacing engines in cars that are 10+ years old. This would almost certainly result in the 7 year good-will gesture being withdrawn.

From my point of view I've bought a car and am facing a very large repair bill because of a design flaw in the engine.

However, I completely understand what you're saying and how it must be for Toyota, and don't think that I will be able to get anywhere with them, but you can't blame me for trying.

neilbro39 · November 21, 2007, 19:49

Where did you buy it from? if it was from a garage I would go back straight away and let them know as I don't think the car will have just gone overnight. Was it sold to you like this.
TBH I think more and more people are going to be buying cars like this as people will be trading them in as they know that the oil levels are dropping quickly and it will go at some point.
If you bought privately not sure what if any recourse you will have but it's possibly worth a try? small claims court etc?

Good luck.

PS what are the symptoms you have at the moment?

Jaik · November 21, 2007, 21:46

I bought it from a used car dealer (non-Toyota) so I do have that as a further plan of action. When I bought the car last month, it drove beautifully, everything sounded and went exactly as it should. Over the past 10 days or so it's just gone drastically downhill very quickly, oil consumption has suddenly gone up, the engine has been sounding worse and worse like it's battering itself to death, and I have a loss of power, especially at 4k+ (when the VVTi comes in?)

It has been diagnosed as the "oval cylinder" problem by my local dealer and I'm not driving it at the moment, not that I was any more than I absolutely had to before.

Is it possible the problem was lying dormant if the previous owner had only driven the car very gently? I have some mechanical sympathy, let the engine warm up properly before giving it too many revs, never redline engines etc, but I do drive enthusiastically on occasion. That's the only explanation I can think of myself for it coming on so quickly.

Anonymous · November 21, 2007, 22:13

Problem was already there, thats why it was traded in.
Go back to the dealer now, explain all and tell him you are rejecting the car as unfit for purpose.

Jaik · November 21, 2007, 22:34

nelix, if I were to do that, what would be the best way to approach it with them, and how would I proceed if they didn't agree to take it back which I expect they would initially?

Anonymous · November 21, 2007, 22:41

Gather all the info you can about the precat problems/oval rings.
Ask the toyota garage if they would be willing to put a report in writing for you stating that the fault must have been there when you bought the car- long shot but ask

1. Benice at first.
2. Play a bit harder, murmur about talking to your soliciter friend to see where you stand.
3. Hardball, threaten with trading standards and follow through, personally i would also hang around outside at busy periods with a placarc saying "previous customer who is unhappy, garage refuses to help" or something a little harsher.

Jaik · November 22, 2007, 18:43

Nelix, thank you! I really appreciate the advice.

I have checked out my legal standing and I should have a good chance of getting a refund or repair under the Sale of Goods Act. My local Toyota dealership (RRG Stockport) are behind me too, the service guy I've been talking to about it (who also diagnosed the problem on the car) has been very helpful. He's putting together an estimate for the work required for me to present to the dealer that sold me the car.

I'm going to the dealer to talk it out on Sunday. I'll give them a call tomorrow or Saturday to let them know the situation.

Anonymous · November 22, 2007, 18:44

Good luck mate.

Anonymous · November 22, 2007, 19:17

I bought my first 2 in May, from on local used car dealer. Cut a long story short pretty much the same problems as you.

I bought it with a warranty. Took it back to the dealers, was pleasent with them. I left the 2 with them, got a courtisy off them. The warranty people took a look at it. I never new about pre cat issues at this time, wasn't a member on here.

After about a month of been vv nice and extremly patient. The dealer told me the conclusion was engine falure and the warranty company was not prepared to replace the engine.

Got a full refund from the dealer. He even admitted the car must've had the problem when he bought it.

Get straight down to the garage and see what they say. I know I was probably vv lucky. Most dealers work on word of mouth, and some of them are pretty decent.

Jaik · November 22, 2007, 21:03

Cheers jonny5 s:)

s:) It's good to know some people do have an easy (relatively speaking) time getting the car sorted in this situation. Let's hope I have a similar experience!

Anonymous · November 24, 2007, 23:06

Hello all, I am very interested in this thread as I have just bought an MR2 Roadie and now have the engine light on. I have had it check by local MOT centre and he told me lambda is likely but looking at the engine I see 2 sensors what must be pre cat and 1 in the pipe which is after cat?

my car is November 2001 60,100 but has only 16 and 20k toyota services could I get the work done on the 7 year warranty then?

darbiz s:? :? s:?

Anonymous · November 24, 2007, 23:07

Or do I go down the removal of the pre cat strategy??? I need help s:cry: :cry: s:cry:

Anonymous · November 24, 2007, 23:09

You need to find out exactly what the code(s) is first, as it might be something as simple as an O2 sensor needing replacing. Pre-cat death is pretty rare still despite the glut of posts we've seen here recently, so unless you have failure-specific issues with the car (as detailed in the Pre-Cat sticky at the top of this forum) then I wouldn't worry about it yet.

Still, all the more reason to gut your pre-cats now, eh? s;)

s;)

Anonymous · November 24, 2007, 23:14

Thanks for that fast reply s:)

s:) I feel a little better now... He did say CO2 to me but I will get it checked again. The gutting of the pre Cats is this just a case of removing the sensorsand plugging the holes with screw heads??? as the price has varied wildly on the forum??? £40 to £150 that is some margin s:wink: :wink: s:wink:

Anonymous · November 24, 2007, 23:22

Have a read of the sticky, it explains exactly what to do, but suffice it to say it's a bit more work than just taking the O2 sensors out. s;)

s;)

Tbh it's an easy enough job to DIY provided you don't mind swearing a bit! s:lol: :lol: s:lol:

Anonymous · November 24, 2007, 23:42

Thanks Ekona s:D

s:D I can do the swearing no problem... I will up date my profile later on and get some pickies on too...

I'll read on s8)

s8)

heathstimpson · November 25, 2007, 05:59

Quote from: "darbiz"my car is November 2001 60,100 but has only 16 and 20k toyota services could I get the work done on the 7 year warranty then?

darbiz s:? :? s:?

I would guess that Toyota would want to see a full dealership service history to stand a chance of getting a new engine on a six year old car. If your not loosing power at higher revs or drinking oil then I wouldn't worry yourself over a dead engine to be honest s:wink: :wink: s:wink:

Jaik · November 25, 2007, 16:01

darbiz, I hope you get your problem sorted out, whatever it is. Keep us updated s:)

s:)

I finally spoke to the independent dealer I bought the car from today. They were really helpful and said not to worry, they'll help me out and get everything sorted. I'm ringing back tomorrow to speak to the actual guy I bought the car from, so good news so far s:)

s:)

Stifler · November 25, 2007, 18:19

Glad to hear that the dealer sounds to be doing the right thing - good luck s:)

s:)

Anonymous · November 25, 2007, 22:17

I too have suffered the oval rpiston rings engine failure. Unfortunately the car (which I bought new) is just over 7 years old and has done 116000 miles. I had had in earlier (before the 7 year limit) to the dealer (RRG Salford) and was effectively palmed off. It was only when the engine seemd to be drinking even more oil and i read about the piston ring thing and asked them about this that they conceeded there was an extended warranty but that I was not covered as 1) over 7 years by 2 days and 2/ over 100000 miles. I take the earlier points about seeing it from Toyotas point of view but basically I would expected a car that has been serviced regularly to last more that 116000 miles ( I have a 30 year old vw which has been round the clock and never needed an engine rebuild). Essentially this is a design fault and i feel a bit agrieved about it.

As the warrantly is of no use to me, would people recommend getting the engine rebult or getting a reconditioned engine. I should probably replace the main cat and decat the manifold - do these have to be done in any specific order and could anyone recommend anywhere to get it done - I'm now trying to avoid mainstream Toyota dealers as I feel a bit shafted.

I would also recommend anyone with a MR2 coming up to 7 yeatrs old to measure the oil consumption and if high really push at the dealership about hte extended warranty - they will probably deny any knowledge at first so keep trying.

Sorry about the rant but if anyone has any advice about the best way to preceed and where (eg Silverstone Performance) it would be appreciated