Sequential Gearing......Impressions please

Anonymous · June 13, 2003, 13:47

I am ashamed to say I dont have a 2 at present! I am considering an import MRS, but the one I have found has sequential transmission. I have never driven a car with this arrangement, is there anyone out there who has an opinion??? Does this make for a less involving, sporty drive, or is it just fine? Also, what do you think of the MRS as an import? Thankls in advance. DALE

Anonymous · June 13, 2003, 13:58

Dale,

There are a number of people on here that have the SMT, both old and new type. I think asking is going to be contentious, as it is all down to personal opinion. I have a manual car, but after driving the Alfa Selespeed, it put me off sequentials altogether, but the people who have them swear by them. I think it is a question of taste and what you are looking for. Try going to a dealer and arranging a test drive in both and then you will have a much better idea of what I mean.

Go with what you prefer. You will be smiling constantly, whatever you buy!

markiii · June 13, 2003, 14:03

I have the manual, but the SMT while it has it's quirks occasionally is very good. Having driven a couple I'd seriously consider it. Especially if your daily commute often leaves you sitting in traffic as then it has to be the option to go with.

If your importing from Japan, remeber that a)the ecu is different, there is still investigation going on as to why we can't read them with UK tools. b)jap cars don't have underseal (get it done in the uk or it will rot) c)there isn't a 3rd 02 sensor on jap cars, which makes it easy to ditch the main cat, if thats something you ever want to do.

Mark.

SteveJ · June 13, 2003, 14:06

Dale,

Where in the UK are you - would it be possible for you to make it to JAE (Japanese Auto Extravaganza) at Billing Aquadrome near Northampton the last weekend in July (26/27). I'm sure there will be more than one of each variant (5/6 Speed manual & 5/6 speed SMT) attending over the course of the weekend, and I'm sure you can blag a drive in a least one

SteveJ

Anonymous · June 13, 2003, 15:23

I test drove an SMT an thought it was pretty good. The main thing that put me off was price. When I sit on the A52 on the way home from work I wish I had saved up and got one s:wink: :wink: s:wink:
One bad thing I found, which there is no doubt a solution for, was that when the sun is behind you it's difficult to tell what gear you're in which was a bit of a 'mare, but it's probably something you get used to. I can't see my speedo cos the steering wheel is in the way, but I cope. Anyone wanna know how many revs 90 is in 6th?

J

mph · June 13, 2003, 17:57

The *only* negative thing I can say about the SMT is that you can't do fast standing starts. If you're a traffic-light racer, then SMT isn't for you.

However once you're moving, the SMT wins over, whether you're in traffic, cruising, or racing on circuit. While there's much debate over gear changing speeds, in practise I doubt anyone will do a quicker hot lap in a MT vs. an SMT. Actually as there so happens, there's a video floating about of literally this comparision - there was less than a 1/10sec in it, so there!

Having recently had to drive a MT, I really can't be bothered with all this nonsense with a clutch anymore and while toe-heeling round country lanes is amusing, while I'm on track I'd much rather prefer to be concentrating on the upcoming corner than trying to match the downshift revs - something the SMT handles for me, perfectly, everytime.

Jap GT300 · June 14, 2003, 12:04

Sales speach attached:
I currently have a Green & Tan in both SMT and Manual for sale, you are more than welcome to come and test drive both. Details are on my website.

Adam

filcee · June 15, 2003, 15:28

I agree with mph - the SMT makes concentrating on the car's position and line much, much easier. It also means you can be last on the brakes anywhere, anytime - as long as the guy behind you isn't relying on your brake lights to tell him where the problems are (he shouldn't be - most people can see straight over the top of you with their van-like family-mobiles these days). This is an absolute bonus for me, as I can't toe & heel like a proper driver can. I've never done a track day in mine, but I take as much advantage as I can when I'm on the open road.

The quirks (markii & mph mention) are the poor standing start performance - but I worry more about being seen than being first to the back of the next queue s:D

s:D I've also found I can confuse my 5-speed variant when down-shifting to 1st gear on a roundabout or junction. It'll pause, then wallop the bottom cog in with a crunch as soon as you press the throttle pedal, which can catch you out sometimes. Occasionally it will refuse to find reverse at the first attempt, then clatter the gear box like a true learner when the control box makes it's mind up. I also find shifting from 4th to 5th at speed can take an inordinately long time (compared to the other changes). Lifting slightly on upshifts helps - much the same as you would when putting the clutch in on a standard manual - and can result in some lovely smooth changes when you get it spot on. Overall, it changes gear quicker than I can, and the throttle blips are an absolute pose if you're in town - just hit the downshifter at a little above 2000 rpm, blip, clunk, next gear down, thangyewverymuch.

The final drawback I'm finding is that dealers aren't too eager on trade in value, chanting the 'not too popular' mantra. I'll let you know more if I can get any better sense out of the ones I'm talking to at the moment.

Try both & pick what suits you, I'm a big fan of semi-autos anyway, but I can see why others might not be. Good Luck.

Chris · June 15, 2003, 22:54

Well, I've driven both - a 2002 5 speed manual and my current 2003 6 speed smt.

To my mind, I don't think I would go back to a manual as it's an absolute god send in traffic! s:D

s:D It took me a week or so to get used to not having to stir the stick around like usual and occasionally during those first few days I found my self forgetting, and trying to move the stick from what would have been 2nd to 3rd - but only shifting into 1st with huge revs and looking like a tit! s:oops: :oops: s:oops: However, I'm used to it now...

I find myself using the buttons when cruising around, but when in a series of twisties then the stick feels more normal. I'd echo what Martin said about the smt on the track, as it makes it so much easier because it will match the revs for ya, so you can get on with the important stuff of hooking up the apexes... s:lol: :lol: s:lol:
s8)

s8)

Oh yeah, and it has some well annoying beeps s:twisted: :twisted: s:twisted: when you put it in reverse, just in case you forgot!!

Anonymous · June 16, 2003, 09:57

Suppose it kinda depends on your driving circumstances. A lot of people here have mentioned that it is a godsend in traffic with the SMT. Well, I rarely encounter traffic on my way to work and have some nice driving roads that allow me to stretch the car. Not sure which I would rather have, but if this is one of the the main reasons for buying SMT, then I wouldn't need/want it. If I DID have traffic problems, then I might consider it.
You pays your money........................

They are both good. Buy what you want! s:roll: :roll: s:roll: s:wink: :wink: s:wink: s:lol: :lol: s:lol:

zud · June 16, 2003, 12:00

I also drove an Alfa Selespeed (156) before my '2, and certainly wouldn't have bought another Selespeed. I loved the car, but problems with the gearbox/changer, and the Alfa dealers, turned me against Alfas altogether. Otherwise, I'd probably now be driving an Alfa Spider, so special thanks to Alfa for helping me towards my '2! s:wink: :wink: s:wink:

But I was after a used '2, preferably from the dealer we've bought my wife's last three cars from, and they had an SMT just at the right time. And in the end I decided to take a chance on Toyota's reputation for reliability (certainly compared to Alfa!) and took a chance on an SMT.

My first impression was that a Toyota designer had driven the Selespeed for a couple of months and then removed all the "quirks" and niggles when designing the SMT... it was just superb!! The only thing he forgot was to leave in the super fast change that Alfa had. But now I'm used to the SMT I'm not sure it's much slower than us mere mortals could shift a manual, and i certainly couldn't do down-shifts like the SMT.

Like others here, my daily journey involves a lot of jams, and the SMT is brilliant there. But its still great fun when you get a bit of open road too!! s:D

s:D

It doesn't always go into reverse straight away, and if you wait it does go in with a crunch. But I figure this is similar to when a manual car won't go in, and you need to shift into first then reverse, or blip the throttle in neutral. If you spot that it won't go into reverse and shift quickly back to neutral/first before the crunch, it then goes in OK.

Standing starts... I'm not so sure its that bad there either. I know it comes out a second or so slower than the manual in the 0-60 times... but the guys performing those tests don't drive like I do... they tend to brake gearboxes/clutches in just a few timed starts!! And I think a lot of the difference in the published times is that you can't abuse an SMT the same as a manual!! having said that, I read an article where they'd got a quicker start from the SMT by revving to 4500 before engaging 1st... apparently it made a horrible noise, but the 0-60 was improved by about 0.5 secs!! So, depending how you drive, I'm not sure the standing starts are that bad.

Anyway, sounds like it's time for test drive.... I don't think you'll be disappointed either way!! s:D

s:D Good luck!!

Anonymous · June 16, 2003, 13:04

Good report Zud. Couldn't agree more. I still prefer a manual, but depending on how you drive, your circumstances and this is the important bit, what you prefer, then with the '2, I don't think you can go wrong cos the rest of the car will always make up for the failings of something.....

Strange you should say that about the Alfa box reliability though. I had one for about 3 weeks and not bad at all. Someone who had the car after me on a permanent basis has had NOTHING but trouble, the latest being that they are permanently stuck in 3rd gear!!! Best of all, Alfa diagnosed the problem as something to do with fuel! How wrong they were. Turns out it was a computer problem! Well, no shit Sherlock!!! So, new computers and the person has to drive around in a Micra waiting for the ECU to be shipped from Italy!

Glad you got away from Alfa? LOVELY cars, pants reliability and service........

zud · June 16, 2003, 14:02

They obviously got some bits mixed up between your Alfa and mine... mine started missing 3rd and going straight from 2nd to 4th! Very embarrassing when you'd pulled away quickly from some lights!

Alfa were pretty good that time around, paying for the entire repair even though it was a few months out of warranty (only 1 yr manufacturer warranty as it was an import). But a few months later the actuator developed an oil leak... how do you repair an oil leak on an actuator? You replace the entire thing at a cost of just over a grand!! Alfa paid 30% of that one. At that point I was still considering another Alfa, just not Selespeed.

Finally, I had the rear bumper replaced (on 3rd party's insurance) and they pi$$ed me about again. That and the terrible residual value on the car finally broke me.

Still, as much as loved the Alfa, it was nowhere as near as much fun as the '2!!! s:D

s:D

Anonymous · June 16, 2003, 14:37

Completely agree. I had the 147 and its a cracking car but the poor person who has it now has all the problems. I can't beleive they can make such a fundamental mistake in diagnosing what was wrong with it. Shame really, cos they are not helping themselves as they are going out of business rapidly.

But for fun, I would take my '2 ANY day!

God, we agree again! Me, you, Hardcore........the world just aint right! s:shock: :shock: s:shock: s:lol: :lol: s:lol: