Simons turbo troubles - Possible solution

[spit]

Anyone know how much a new turbo is  s:( s:(    s:scared: :scared: s:scared:  

I've had a local guy price them up, but I'm not going to tell you what they said as it scared me and I'm sure you can source cheaper via US (or Gaspar?). One nugget he did point out was that an exchange was only a few quid less than an outright purchase  s:shock: :shock: s:shock:  Go figure.

Peter Carter (of Camcoat fame) works under a parent company (Camco) who do ECU and Turbo recons. Worth a friendly chat with him to assess the options?

[loadswine]

How about getting it refurbed by someone like Turbotechnics?
They rebuild turbos and can perform little enhancements i understand.
Give them, or someone like them a shout and see what its likely to cost.

[aaronjb]

I don't know if this is still the case, but a few years ago the common concensus was that ball bearing turbos are non-rebuildable.  That may have changed, of course.

A full replacement would run to ~£500, depending on how much shipping works out to:
 m http://www.frsport.com/Ball-Bearing-Series_c_228.html m
 m http://www.horsepowerinabox.com/HPIAB2/category12_1.htm m


I just struggle to see the bearings in a BB CHS giving up after 10,000 miles..

The other possibility is a boost leak so large that the turbo is pumping it's guts out - and that will cause the bearings to blow (or at least, while spinning off the scale, to leak oil like a sieve - been there, done that!) - the only thing is, I couldn't find any holes in the hoses (there was a bulge in one that turned into a hole as we pulled the hose off, but not beforehand).  So unless there's a gaping hole in the intake manifold itself (which would lead to the car failing to idle, almost certainly) I can't see where it could be leaking from.

FWIW the PCV system is now completely isolated from the intake tract - so there is no PCV system.  Both pre-TB and post-TB PCV hoses are capped temporarily to eliminate the option that we were pressurising the crank case and blowing oil out that way.

[SimonC_Here]

Just been doing some searches for Garret GT28R Turbo
 s:cry: :cry: s:cry:

Jess is going to kill me.

Is there anything I can do temporarily to stop all my oil peeing up the intake?

I'll call Turbotechnics later, Ste, any contact details for Peter?

Simon

[aaronjb]

Unfortunately unless we can find a reason for the amount of oil coming out then no - short of removing the turbo, there's not a lot you can do.

Next step is to take the intake off the turbo and see if there is any play in the compressor wheel in any direction, or if it's just plain siezed..

[SimonC_Here]

The car actually idles pretty smoothly! Must be all the oil.  s;) s;)

I wonder how long it would take me to put it back to stock on my own while I save my pennies?

Simon

[spit]

Ste, any contact details for Peter?

Camcoat and Camco have now moved to separate sites and Peter's number has changed. I'll try to get hold of him for you and PM details.

[aaronjb]

The more I think about it.. the more it kinda has to be the turbo that's died  s:? :? s:?  It's just so hard to believe given the limited mileage that's on the turbo, but, as Mark and Bill (WTS) have both proven - the GT28R is more than capable of still making 6psi boost even with a 1" hole in the intake (Mark when the PCV cap blew off, and Bill when his BOV fell off)..

And I think we'd have noticed a bigger hole than that, somehow, unless it's somewhere utterly impossible to see or feel.

 s:( s:(

[spit]

I don't know if this is still the case, but a few years ago the common concensus was that ball bearing turbos are non-rebuildable.

I've just called Camco and thats exactly what they said Aaron  s:x :x s:x    s:cry: :cry: s:cry:

[SimonC_Here]

Humm according to Camco (thanks Ste) Aaron is right - the BB turbo isn't easily re-conable.

[edit]Ninja'd by ste[/edit]

Simon

[aaronjb]

I've just called Camco and thats exactly what they said Aaron  s:x :x s:x    s:cry: :cry: s:cry:

I thought as much  s:( s:(  A 'recon' with a BB turbo basically means swapping out the entire CHS for a new unit from Garrett, and reusing just the turbine & compressor housings (which are worth peanuts, compared to the CHS).

[spit]

That would explain why the exchange price is so close to the outright purchase price then.

[SimonC_Here]

Stu, did you do anything electrical that I couldn't just unplug?

Simon

[Wabbitkilla]

Need a new turbo?


No seriously ... have you tried Turbotechnics Turbo Exchange?
Linky

[SimonC_Here]

Now I don't really think that will fit without modifying the firewall now will it!  s:) s:)

I've sent them an email, just waiting for a reply.

Simon

[uktotty]

Just read this Simon, what a nightmare, can Mark do anything for you as it was his and he uninstalled and reinstalled it for you?

[Anonymous]

Hi Simon,

Sorry to hear about your difficulties.  Having been down the Hass turbo road myself I can emphasize with you.  I read through this post and have several questions/suggestions.  

Are you using an oil restrictor for the oil into the turbo?  If not it is very easy for oil to work past the turbo seals and into the intercooler pipes. ATP turbo sells oil restrictors or you can make your own.  This should fix your oil problem.

If your turbo had bad bearings it would most likely be making some horrible noise either a high pitched whine or rattle especially as it decelerates.  

How are you measuring boost?  Are you sure you don't have a leak at the boost meter?  

My suggestions is to look for boost leaks around couplers and boost gauge.  If nothing is apparent, take apart the intercooler piping from compressor to throttle body and inspect all joints/couplers.  Since you have oil on the MAF you will want to clean your intercooler and pipes to prevent further contamination of the MAF.  This will allow you to inspect all the connections.  As others have mentioned Garrett ball bearing turbos can not be rebuilt you just have to swap out the CHRA section.  I have attached a link to Garrett's web site which discusses ball bearing service options.  

Hope this helps,

Panek

 m http://www.turbobygarrett.com/turbobyga ... rvice.html m

[SimonC_Here]

Hi Simon,

Sorry to hear about your difficulties.  Having been down the Hass turbo road myself I can emphasize with you.  I read through this post and have several questions/suggestions.  

Are you using an oil restrictor for the oil into the turbo?  If not it is very easy for oil to work past the turbo seals and into the intercooler pipes. ATP turbo sells oil restrictors or you can make your own.  This should fix your oil problem.

If your turbo had bad bearings it would most likely be making some horrible noise either a high pitched whine or rattle especially as it decelerates.  

How are you measuring boost?  Are you sure you don't have a leak at the boost meter?  

My suggestions is to look for boost leaks around couplers and boost gauge.  If nothing is apparent, take apart the intercooler piping from compressor to throttle body and inspect all joints/couplers.  Since you have oil on the MAF you will want to clean your intercooler and pipes to prevent further contamination of the MAF.  This will allow you to inspect all the connections.  As others have mentioned Garrett ball bearing turbos can not be rebuilt you just have to swap out the CHRA section.  I have attached a link to Garrett's web site which discusses ball bearing service options.  

Hope this helps,

Panek

 m http://www.turbobygarrett.com/turbobyga ... rvice.html m

Great link! Their UK distributer is just down the road from me!

I don't know about the oil restrictor, Aaron?

Last night I had all the piping off from the compressor to the metal section which goes to the throttle body, containing the MAF, we didn't have any 11mm deep socket so couldn't get the last bit off.
Boost is measured curtesy of Greddy Profec E-01 and as far as we could see/feel, all the joints were solid, apart from the mentioned small bulge/tear on the piping next to the compressor.

We cleaned the MAF and all the piping and then I drove home. By the time I got back the oil had built up to the same levels as we had cleaned.

There are no noticible strange noises coming from the turbo, well, from what I can hear over the exhaust.

[aaronjb]

Nope there's no restrictor in the Hass kit, and Mark never fitted one so no restrictor in yours.  That's the reason Mark always had a small amount of blow-by through the turbo seals (no where near as much as you're getting, though!) - I don't think that's the sole reason for your oil, unless you have a hyperactive oil pump with a stuck relief valve that's building far too much oil pressure (that's hard to check without a pressure gauge - I have one, but we only just plumbed it into my car  s:( s:(  ).

It wouldn't be a bad idea to get a restrictor from ATP, though..

[scottish_turbo]

Without an oil restrictor I had oil flowing past the seals on my Hass kit!

I'd definately get one.

If you send the turbo away you can get it checked out for 50 quid but I cant remember who it is that does that. I'll try to remember for you.

CR turbos have been recommended to me in the past as well.

[scottish_turbo]

Here is the oil restrictor you need:

http://www.atpturbo.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=ATP-OIL-021&Category_Code=GTBB

If you email them they will give you cheaper postage as the postage price on their website for such a small item is ridiculous.

[SimonC_Here]

$95 for shipping on a $12 part! darn right I'll be emailing them.  s:) s:)

Simon

[spit]

Simon. I've got a restrictor here that Stu had made. Not sure what oil line fitting you have on the Hass, but if its any use and cool with Stu I can send it your way?

[scottish_turbo]

To be honest the problem is not going to be just the lack of an oil restrictor, however it could make the problem look worse due to the large volume of oil flowing past the seals.

[kanujunkie]

Simon. I've got a restrictor here that Stu had made. Not sure what oil line fitting you have on the Hass, but if its any use and cool with Stu I can send it your way?

cool with me, just send it over, i had it custom made by Mocal, it should fit yours as the Hass and C2 Turbo's are the same