Simons turbo troubles - Possible solution

[spit]

Simon. I've got a restrictor here that Stu had made. Not sure what oil line fitting you have on the Hass, but if its any use and cool with Stu I can send it your way?

cool with me, just send it over, i had it custom made by Mocal, it should fit yours as the Hass and C2 Turbo's are the same

Hub is fine, yes, I was just wondering about the oil line fitting - does the Hass use a dome compression fit like Gaspar's? Not a biggie to adapt it if necessary though.

[SimonC_Here]

Simon. I've got a restrictor here that Stu had made. Not sure what oil line fitting you have on the Hass, but if its any use and cool with Stu I can send it your way?

cool with me, just send it over, i had it custom made by Mocal, it should fit yours as the Hass and C2 Turbo's are the same

Wow thanks Stu.

Simon

[ChrisGB]

Very glad to know that the breather is post turbo and is eliminated as a cause. Whatever a turbo would cost, a new engine will be worse.

You might try calling these guys:

 m http://www.essexturbos.com/ m

Chris

[Anonymous]

Do you have the boost gauge that came with the hass kit or another simple boost gauge?  If so you can take the profec out of line and use the boost gauge to see if you are making boost.  This is a realatively easy way to check if you are making boost.  The reason I mention this is I recall others having some problems with their profec boost controllers.  

Panek

[SimonC_Here]

Mark has very kindly offered to check out the car this Saturday so I'm going to be taking it easy and topping up with oil until then.

Panek, I only have the electronic gauge that came with the Profec.

Simon

[spit]

Restrictor should be with you in the morning.

[SimonC_Here]

Thanks Ste, I'll keep an eye out for it.

Simon

[SimonC_Here]

Well, after half a day at Marks  s:bowdown: :bowdown: s:bowdown:  with Aaron  s:bowdown: :bowdown: s:bowdown: , and half a can on petrol, oil, and a lot of hot water, the car is running as it was!   s:bounce: :bounce: s:bounce:    s:bounce: :bounce: s:bounce:    s:bounce: :bounce: s:bounce:    

There seemed to be a couple of problems working together to mess up the car.
Firstly the oil forcing it's way out of the turbo seals seem to be because of an excess of oil that was added when the turbo was. Remember boys and girls, it 3.5ltrs or so, not something over 4!  s;) s;)

Now whether it was the oil getting through the turbo seals that knackered the MAF or the 90k miles on it then wacking a turbo in. Either way it was dead with a p0100 and p0110 code.

I'm going to check the oil and MAF in the daylight tomorrow to see if I'm still loosing any so I'll let you all know then.

The oil restrictor didn't quite fit, so I'll be getting one from the states, along with some crankvents and a bit of tubing.

As to the amount of boost I managed to get, check out the max boost setting on the gauge...



 s:D s:D

Simon

[SimonC_Here]

And I spoke too soon.  s:( s:(

There is oil on the MAF and in the intake pipe again, and all that time spent cleaning the Apexi was wasted.

Sigh.

Oh and Mark, I hope your head is OK today.  s:oops: :oops: s:oops:

Simon

[markiii]

yeah head is ok bar he 1/2 " ratchet shaped indent  :-) :-) :-)

is she still making boost? still reving normally?

[SimonC_Here]

Haven't driven today, It was reving and boosting fine on the drive home.

Simon

[markiii]

thats something are we talking a lot fo oil?

[SimonC_Here]

Pretty much the same amount as we before. I haven't taken the piping off to have a check but it's dripping out of the Apexi like before.

Simon

[SimonC_Here]

Driving to work this morning and the boost is still there  s:) s:) , as is the leaking oil.  s:( s:(

I'm trying to drive it without hitting boost so I don't drown this MAF as well.

Simon

[markiii]

been giving this some thought over teh weekend and teh only thing I can think of is that it's teh turbo seals whihc is just downright crap luck.

whilst we sort out a way forward you may want pop the circlip from teh actiator and wire the wastegate open, that way you can't make boost

[spit]

Simon/Mark ... bear with me on this  s:wink: :wink: s:wink:  There may be an alternative!

I've just been on the 'phone to a very knowledgeable chap who supplies repair kits for turbos. Unsurprisingly, he has nothing for BB units, but he did have some excellent suggestions that I hadn't considered before  s:oops: :oops: s:oops:  .

First off, the fact that the Garrett has been fine until it hit your car suggests to him that the unit is pefectly OK, and that something with the install to your car (or your car itself) has kicked this off. He's seen this happen many a time.

Prime candidate is a blocked air filter/intake tract. I recall you saying that your filter is oiled up. If the compressor wheel can't draw enough air, then the resultant vacuum in the compressor housing decides to fill the gap from whatever is available ... which is why it draws oil from the hub. (This is prompting me to go give my Apexi a dman good clean or replace it  s:wink: :wink: s:wink:  ). Clearly, the worse it gets, the more it'll affect your ability to make boost.

As for how the oil got there in the first place - well - I'm not sure what your original breather set up was but this may have started it off?

Second options are a restriction in the oil return or sump pressurisation, so the oil blatting through the turbo hub has nowhere to go. Maybe check for kinks or blocks in the oil drain hose?, particularly as you have no restrictor and therefore more oil to shift.

So, basically the guy is saying that - without a v good clean up of turbo and air system, the problem will return and compound itself as you go.

As for diagnosing - if you take off the turbo and see oil on both sides, its likely to be an oil drain issue. If its just on the compressor side, its down to air filtration/restriction of the intake.

Hope this helps. It helps me! I'd never really thought about it in such basic terms, but it makes good sense.

Finally ... there is a bloke in the UK who repairs BB turbos. I'm hoping now that you won't need him, but if you do, PM me for his details.

Ste

[markiii]

thansk Ste

however we pretty much tried all of that on Saturday bar checking for a blockage in teh oil return

I suggest we install teh restrictor as soon as we get it and check that at teh same time

[SimonC_Here]

I was thinking along the same lines of blocked air filter this morning.
We cleaned the filter and it's running fine, as it blocks up from oil, the incomming air pressure drops and causes the drop in performance, until it's so blocked I start getting lean codes and no power.

As to where the oil comes from to start the cycle off I don't know, leaky seals, kinked pipes (although can't see any), blockages?

There is the Garett performance specialist not far from me who do turbo core replacements, I'm going to give them a call and ask.

I know the turbo is a GT28R but is that the whole model number?

Simon

[aaronjb]

Nope, and it's really hard to guess the model unfortunately..

It's either a GT2560R (53mm turbine wheel) or GT2860R (53.8mm turbine wheel).

Garrett changed their numbering scheme, so it's unfortunately whether the 'GT28R' as sold by Hass & Turbokits.com refers to the 'old' GT28R or 'new' GT28R.

Part numbers are here:  m http://www.turbobygarrett.com/turbobyga ... rgers.html m

I suspect someone out there knows, though..

[Wabbitkilla]

I seem to rmember there was a way to lookup the serial number on the hub to find out which specific model it is.

[scottish_turbo]

Ive just been thinking.

If I'm correct the oil return on your turbo setup is the standard size, which was too small for my setup. Even with a restrictor i was getting oil leaking from both sides of the turbo. Cant remember who but someone else on spyderchat had this problem too.

Before you go any further install the restrictor and increase the size of the oil return fittings and hose. Mine are 1/2 inch now.

[kanujunkie]

i agree about getting the restrictor in but dont bother about increasing the size of the oil return line, oil doesn't expand that much and if it was to expand then to fill the return line your talking that it would have to expand to 4-5 times its origional volume, which isn't ever going to happen.

Fit that restrictor asap before you damage the bearings anymore!!!! and in between Simon, dont drive it!

[SimonC_Here]

It's the way I get to work Stu  s:( s:(
I've ordered the restrictor scottish_turbo, I did email them and the shipping price came right down.

Can I fit the restrictor without draining the oil or will I get covered if I try!

Simon

[spit]

Can I fit the restrictor without draining the oil or will I get covered if I try!

So long as the engine isn't running!  s:lol: :lol: s:lol:  

You should be fine if its a captive nut fitting on the oil line so you can attach at turbo end without removing the line at the filter end. You'll get a little seepage, but you're used to that now  s:wink: :wink: s:wink:

Wait a while for oil to drain back to the sump if you need to remove the line at the filter end though. There will be a bit of oil to mop up above the filter (as you normally get when doing an oil and filter change).

None of its under massive pressure at rest though. Just keep your activities above the sump line  s:lol: :lol: s:lol:

[kanujunkie]

did that restrictor that Ste had of mine not fit then?