Engine FUBAR

[Anonymous]

Hi, all once again

Im not having too much luck.   s:( s:(  

After the South East Jap Meet on the 24 - 2 - 08 I checked my oil level, and Oh my god it had dropped. Almost without warning...

Went to Toyota who said it was nothing, to just top it up, and to keep an eye on it..

Spoke to the mechanic, who said all the bumph on oval boring was Bollocks... and people on the internet were just shit stering.   s:roll: :roll: s:roll:  

Three weeks later and it seemed to be constantly dropping..

Back to Toyota, Who said they would do a 1000 mile test, they said that It shouldn't use more than ONE litre, if it uses more its bad news..

625 read it 625 miles later and its almost off the dip stick.....

Back to Toyota, 1.6 litres of oil later...   s:shock: :shock: s:shock:  

This time they tell me to take it easy, not to take it above 4000revs and bring it back when it was reading LOW. For a second reading.

So I take it easy 3000revs with a max speed 65mph, now that's restraint.

Took it in today at 889miles... and its reading 1.5 litres of oil...   s:shock: :shock: s:shock:  

TOYOTA of Colchester have fobbed me off, NOT OUR PROBLEM your cars over 7 years old.... PHONE HQ....

(My cars April-2000 Mod)

But my cars only done 60,000 miles... and I noticed it first at 58,000

I phoned Toyota's Customer Service HQ and they are not interested either... Its Toyotas policy, blar blar blar....   s:evil: :evil: s:evil:  

I suppose I just want people to know this is a reality, Toyota wont help if its outside the 7year "good will" warranty, the reason why it wasn't recalled is because its not a safety issue! Oh and Toyota are well aware of the problem..

My issues are that everybody that owns one wasn't made aware of this minor hic-up... with a letter from Toyota.

All models over 7 years should be scrapped, NEVER buy a second hand one, especially if its over 7 years old, thats my advice.

What I would like to know is how much longer it will run for before the inevitable...

Toyota have said it will cost, £2617.54 to fix, and that's with the 10% already knocked off....   s:shock: :shock: s:shock:  

What other options do I have? and are they any cheaper?

thanks

[roger]

Hard luck Shane.

Well your only options (assuming you are up to it) is a repair or replacement.

Use the Internet, Search here (including affiliates) and you should be able to come up with...

1. Non - franchise repair
2. Replacement 1ZZ -  used from a scrapped car
3. Replacement 2ZZ or V6 (Rogue or Woodsport)

[Anonymous]

Sounds like time to trade it into a dealer for something else which suits your fancy.

[Anonymous]

Sounds like time to trade it into a dealer for something else which suits your fancy.

And shaft someone else with the problem? Nice.

Sorry to hear about your troubles Shane, really is bad luck. FWIW I really wouldn't be driving it unless you absolutely have to, and even then I'd be topping up the oil before every trip. If worst comes to the worst and the engine starves itself of oil, all hell could break loose when everything starts seizing up and that won't be very good if it puts you into oncoming traffic...!   s:shock: :shock: s:shock:  


It's very possible to get a 2nd hand recon 1ZZ in for under £1500. Give Rich (rtbiscuit) a shout over PM, he's had his done recently for about that and he's pretty local. See where he got his done, be a good place to start if going 2ZZ/V6 doesn't appeal.

[aaronjb]

All models over 7 years should be scrapped, NEVER buy a second hand one, especially if its over 7 years old, thats my advice.

That's pretty harsh - considering the number of cars over 7 years old that are still running just fine..  Given the numbers of people we get with this problem here I can't believe that even 10% of all the MR-2's produced have suffered the problem so why would Toyota do anything to damage their image over it?

The impact of a handful of low-production cars going pop is far less to them than the impact of a formal recall and notification in the newspapers and motoring press would be.


Anyway.. given the tone of your post I'd also suggest looking for a different car, as I doubt you'll ever love the '2 again even if it's fixed, by the sound of it.  Perhaps a Boxster, S2000 or MX-5 - all reliable, all more expensive - of course - but more reliable.


As for your options - £2600 would almost certainly get you a 2ZZ swap, nice power hike and a much better car once done - not to mention an engine with no known issues other than lift bolts breaking on rare occasions.

Or as Dan says, £1500 would get you a s/h 1ZZ swapped in - even less if you can do the labour yourself - as long as you find a good one for around the £800-1000 mark.

[Anonymous]

Never buy a second hand one? How many pre reg 06 cars with delivery mileage do you think are still about?

Im really sorry for you Shane, truly i am, but it really is a silly thing to say.

Good luck.

[Anonymous]

And shaft someone else with the problem? Nice.

Ekona, we clearly grew up at different times with different experiences of life.
It's the dealer who gets shafted because they would have to foot the bill for any repair / replacement (either via sale of goods act or sold warranty).
The alternative is to spend a few grand on a repair, not recover the cost in the resale value but be pleased that the next buyer gets a real bargain! Or, worse still, hang onto the car because we don't want to offend the next prospective buyer. Let buyer beware is the law. At least if you buy from a dealer then they have to sell you goods which are 'fit for purpose'.

[Anonymous]

Im not saying every car is going to go pop...

What im saying is that even if you bought a second-hand car which has been in storage for 7 years and one day and only has 5 miles on the clock Toyota wouldn't be interested in helping you if it developed an engine problem.... and that's exactly what I was told. Even though they know that this problem exists in a predetermined number of their production cars.

With this in mind, Knowing that there is a possibility, that the car you were about to buy has an inherited problem which could show its ugly head at ANY time and without warning, would you buy it?

This opens up the question (now that 2000 and 2001 MR2 Roadsters outdate the "Good Will" warranty) that people will first notice that the engine is drinking oil, (know that Toyota are arseholes, and won't entertain helping) and will sell there cars privately, to unsuspecting members of the public...  

Pick any make of car... add 10 years or even 15 and that's any make of car, what would the mileage be 100 - 120 or more thousand miles and im sure it world be running fine

But Oh no not the Toyota MR2 Roadster 58,000 miles and you could have probs.

What you don't know is how my call was handled... umh, and yesses in the right places, and the sorry we cant help, my hand are tied, its Toyotas policy whilst eating his lunch.. he had a totally: im not interested attitude..

Ive owned Toyota's for almost 18 years, every single day, fully serviced, and all maintenance carried out by Toyota, ive owned all the MR2 range, import and Uk models with others, ive had all the work carried out by the reputable Toyota,

Its Ok when they take your money... All smiles and thank you's

Even the Colchester's attitude changed when I picked up my car,

and this is how I get treated when I have a problem..

Im not happy. FULL STOP   s:evil: :evil: s:evil:

[loadswine]

I can understand that you're not happy. Anyone would be hacked off in the same situation.
What to do now then?
Try another dealer maybe, to see if you could get a more positive approach.
Have a look at getting it repaired. Secondhand 1zzs are pretty easy to source.
Consider an engine swap, as mentioned above. ( Woodsport, who I'd recommend, are booked for a while , I understand)
Try a trade in, yes maybe unethical, but it is an option that you have.
Flog it as it is, basically with a duff engine, worth £2500 or so probably.

Apologies if there is anything I haven't listed as an option, yes, its a crummy hand to have to play, but it might be an idea to start making enquiries to see which one is going to work for you.

[roger]

I'm not happy. FULL STOP   s:evil: :evil: s:evil:

I wouldn't either if I was in your shoes, but having said that, most cars have an achilles heel (especially at 8 years of age), and manufacturers won't repair them FOC for the life of the car. An element of Buyer Beware I'm afraid. I guess you didn't buy it from Toyota, so maybe that's another lesson learned.

Have you tried the "i've been a customer for 18 years" bit and shown them how much you've spent in that time. They might just change their mind if you tell them they are about to lose a loyal customer.

[Anonymous]

Shane, that's a really emotive post.
Ring Toyota HQ, get the NAME of the customer services director, and WRITE to him / her stating the situationl; in particular, the bit about having been a Toyota customer for 18 years, the attitude of the Colchester dealership, the known problem, the 'promises' made about the reliability of the car when you bought it etc etc (When I bought mine, I queried the reliability of the SMT gearbox, the reply was 'it's a Toyota') their reputation is built on this, so dent it!!

[Anonymous]

Have you tried the "i've been a customer for 18 years" bit and shown them how much you've spent in that time. They might just change their mind if you tell them they are about to lose a loyal customer.

tried that... Our hands are tied... Thats all I got.    s:evil: :evil: s:evil:  

toyota quoted £2617.54 for the short block and fitting (15hrs)

the 2zzge upgrade looks good

22,000 fully recon engine (New?) Brand new Gearbox fully fitted and warranted for £3049.99

But where do I get that from?

[aaronjb]

3. Replacement 2ZZ or V6 (Rogue or Woodsport)

Roger already told you  s;) s;)

Rogue Motorsport or Woodsport

Technically any garage could do it given the swap kit, but I'd only trust a specialist like them not to bu**er it up..

[uktotty]

reconned 1ZZ on Ebay for £1050 with a 6 month guarantee too.
I agree for you to be upset, mine had the same issue, Toyota fixed mine for free, so i can see your upset and your issue.

[Anonymous]

Steve Settle is the director of customer relations - Toyota (GB) plc, Great Burgh, Burgh Heath, Epsom, Surrey, KT18 5LX

[Anonymous]

3. Replacement 2ZZ or V6 (Rogue or Woodsport)

Roger already told you  s;) s;)

Rogue Motorsport or Woodsport

I gathered that lol    s:D s:D    

Thats where I got the prices from (rogue motorsport)

I was talking about the Where am I going to get the £3,000 odd

[northernalex]

3. Replacement 2ZZ or V6 (Rogue or Woodsport)

Roger already told you  s;) s;)

Rogue Motorsport or Woodsport

I gathered that lol    s:D s:D    

Thats where I got the prices from (rogue motorsport)

I was talking about the Where am I going to get the £3,000 odd

Woodsport tend to be cheaper than Rogue like for like (from what I've discussed with Nige etc in the past)

[Anonymous]

And shaft someone else with the problem? Nice.

Ekona, we clearly grew up at different times with different experiences of life.

I would guess so if you're over the age of 28, but I'm not sure what that's got to do with anything.

It's the dealer who gets shafted because they would have to foot the bill for any repair / replacement (either via sale of goods act or sold warranty).
The alternative is to spend a few grand on a repair, not recover the cost in the resale value but be pleased that the next buyer gets a real bargain! Or, worse still, hang onto the car because we don't want to offend the next prospective buyer. Let buyer beware is the law. At least if you buy from a dealer then they have to sell you goods which are 'fit for purpose'.

Yup, dealer has to pay if it's not of reasonable quality, but then do you really want someone else to go through all the emotions that Shane's going through now? What if it was some young girl who bought the car? Maybe she'd been saving ages and the MR2 had only just fallen into her price range, and she was so excited about getting it? Would you feel happy telling her that you told someone else just to flog the car to a dealer and let them worry about it, 'cos I sure as hell wouldn't. Still, whatever your conscience can carry I guess.



Maybe that's what you meant by your opening line. Maybe younger people do have more consideration for a fellow human being than the previous generation these days.*



*Note: I'm obviously overstating things here, before I get battered by Roger  s;) s;)

[Anonymous]

Ok, once again, I give in. From now on I'll believe everything the 28 y/o salesperson and under tells me about the car and won't believe for one minuite that they would be prepared to shaft me. I'm in the market for a Z3 and need to hone my technique   s:lol: :lol: s:lol:

[Anonymous]

I really can't see what point you're trying to make here, especially with regards to age. I've meet dodgy people aged 18-80, age is irrelevant. My point is that you're encouraging someone to dump a problem car without any effort to try and rectify the problem, and be damned the next person to pick it up who may just pop on this site and ask if anyone knows what the problem is. That shows a complete lack of morals to me.

[Anonymous]

Ekona, you, like me, are entitled to an opinion, which I respect.
My opinion is that one has  to be naieve to think that the people who sell cars, and the people we buy cars from are acting in our best interest. Why should I give money away so that the next buyer can make a profit? What, referring to your earlier post, if I'm a young bloke and not a young girl? Are you seriously suggesting that you would repair the oval bore problem before you sold me the car? Or are you saying that you would reduce the price accordingly? I'd just px it into a dealer and then its their problem. Yes, I guess your right about me. (If you see mine for sale on here I promise it's the dogs   s:lol: :lol: s:lol:  )

[Anonymous]

Right, I see what you're getting at now.

I think most of this boils down to how you view humanity as a whole, either most are out to get you or most are out to help you. I'm guessing I see it as the latter as I would guess that there are far more honest car traders out there than dishonest ones, as the dishonest ones don't last very long these days. My point was more that I wouldn't put a car dealer in the position of thinking about trying to dupe someone, especially if they were a smaller one. Larger companies/franchises will be able to cope better with the cost of fixing a duff engine that they knew nothing about better than a family run business.

It's the equivalent of crashing your car, doing a quick fix bodge job and then selling it. Yes, caveat emptor applies, but it's horrible to be on the receiving end of it. Just because there's a car dealer in the middle doesn't mean that they shouldn't be shown some level of respect.





Sorry Mods for the drift, feel free to split this thread to somewhere else if you like.  s:oops: :oops: s:oops:

[MikeMr2]

Shane, I understand your situation - thought I'd chip in here as I've had similar experiences of  Mr T's lack of sympathy...

2 years ago, my shiny, new-to-me, FTSH 2000/X reg with 49K on the clock went bang.  Big puff of smoke and everything.

I'd heard a few had been fixed under an 'extended goodwill' thing at about that age so I rang Mr T (UK) to find out, they were non-committal, and told me they could only consider this if I had it 'looked at' by a dealer.

Off car goes to my local dealer for an 'inspection'.  "Doesn't need much inspecting," I said, "it's definitely blown up!"

Next day, get a 'phone call: "Yes sir, your engine has definitely blown up."
They'd obviously spotted the fag packet-sized hole in the engine with a con rod stuck out of it then.  They continue, "But the service interval in the handbook [euro import] is 9000 miles so as it's been done every 10K it obviously hasn't been looked after and we're not going to do anything."

I was speechless.  And they wouldn't budge, even after I pointed out that the identical UK cars had a 10K service interval.  And they were quite rude.  And gave me a quote for ~£7K for fixing it, which would have made me laugh if I was wasn't quite so p***ed off.

And the best bit, their 90 quid bill for 'diagnostic services'.    s:roll: :roll: s:roll:  

But car got fixed in the end (mainly thanks to this place stopping me from panicking, and pointing me in the direction of cheap parts!), and it's been fine now for 30K miles (touch wood   s:wink: :wink: s:wink:   - that's jinxed the corfu trip then!)  

All the best
/Mike

[roger]

*Note: I'm obviously overstating things here, before I get battered by Roger  s;) s;)

Batter, batter, batter. Having done that, I don't think this can be put down to age, just the ethics of individuals  s:wink: :wink: s:wink:

[Anonymous]

Well its almost been a month since Toyota said that my MR2 Roadster was FUBAR...

Denial has gone and regret is setting in....

But there is a doubt still sitting in the back of my mind !

I have been speeking to some friends, and there are a few questions unanswered?

1) I am still doing around 1500miles a month and she's still going strong and I'm STILL pushing her to the limits (well if its going to go!) still putting oil in at a weekly rate though.... (ive decided that if I have to, ill get another new engine, maybe a 2ZZ...) the probably being that she still pulls as good as ever (if not a BIT better) like a two stroke !!! LOL   s:D s:D  

1.5) When Pushing real hard in the corners at max revs at about 80 -90mph I get the faint smell of oil in the drivers compartment evry now and again...

2) She is using a lot of oil obviously - and she isnt and I say again ISNT smoking AT-ALL either White or Blue, on startup - warm or hot? like you would expect from a two stroke..

3) the inside of the exhaust has dry soot, not wet oil deposits as I would expect? (Like my two stroke bike was)

4) No oil spots under the car on the floor afer storage for a few days?

Any Pointers?

Thanks
Shane