More on the clonking.........

[Anonymous]

apologies for resurrecting this thread

Take that back!  s:lol: :lol: s:lol:  It's great to see someone new using the search and browsing old topics before making a new one  s8) s8)

Consider it officially taken back   s:) s:)  
Excellent forum, btw, loads of useful info on here...   s:D s:D  

Anyway, please could anybody tell me if there was ever a final solution for this.

I don't think there was. Some seem to get rid of it with this and some with that. Sometimes it comes back, sometimes it doesn't.  s:? :? s:?

I guess I could try balancing a friend on the bonnet to listen whilst I reverse out in the morning...   s8) s8)  
I just hope that nothing is actually being damaged because it's an 'orrible feeling   s:cry: :cry: s:cry:

[aaronjb]

I guess I could try balancing a friend on the bonnet to listen whilst I reverse out in the morning...   s8) s8)  

 s:lol: :lol: s:lol:  Said friend will probably get pretty cold & damp in this weather..

I just hope that nothing is actually being damaged because it's an 'orrible feeling   s:cry: :cry: s:cry:

Mine does it too - always has (despite also having the PS hose mod carried out), and I've just put it down to the same thing you mentioned - the tyres being forced sideways and 'scrubbed' across the ground.

I suppose really it just needs someone to stare at the sidewall of the tyre to see if it's really that or not..

[spit]

Welcome aboard Rick, and good on you for searching   s:wink: :wink: s:wink:  

Mine does it too - always has (despite also having the PS hose mod carried out), and I've just put it down to the same thing you mentioned - the tyres being forced sideways and 'scrubbed' across the ground.

When my stocks needed replacing, I went with F1s and the clunk went away, so I also put it down to tyres scrubbing and jumping under lock....

But as Tem said, opinion is divided on the cause of this......so maybe its a problem within the entire steering geometry under lock that can be solved by more than one method?

My local garage had a good look around when I had the clunk and couldn't see any signs of wear or damage, which suggests that its not something that needs urgent attention. I'd suggest that - if you're due for a new set of boots soon - this would be the logical thing to try first.

[Tem]

Mine does it too - always has (despite also having the PS hose mod carried out), and I've just put it down to the same thing you mentioned - the tyres being forced sideways and 'scrubbed' across the ground.

I suppose really it just needs someone to stare at the sidewall of the tyre to see if it's really that or not..

It's not that. Not in my case anyway.

Our yearly inspection has a part where the turning wheels are on plates, which move along (so the tyre doesn't move related to the ground=plate) and they turn the wheels from side to side to see if there's any free play. I got the clonk there as well. About every third time he turned the wheels fully from one side to another.

We tried to locate the source, but couldn't really figure it out. He said he can't feel any extra movement of free play related to it and thought it's probably nothing to worry about, as long as it stays that way...

[Anonymous]

Thanks for the replies...   s:D s:D  sounds as though it's (hopefully) not terminal, at least   s:? :? s:?    s:) s:)  

As you say, maybe it is just a design fault. Strange about the cold affecting it more, though, although I guess everything is that little bit closer to being outside tolerance in the cold weather.

Still really interested in peoples continued experiences with this one...

[heathstimpson]

I'm sure its tyre related as If my memory serves me correct no-one with stock Bridgestones had this issue. Someone will probably now go and prove me wrong  s:? :? s:?

[Tem]

I'm sure its tyre related as If my memory serves me correct no-one with stock Bridgestones had this issue. Someone will probably now go and prove me wrong  s:? :? s:?

I have!  s:lol: :lol: s:lol:

Not the stock RE040's though, but S03's. And with the stock Yokos. And with a set of cheapo whatevers I had for a while.

I think it's quite hard to trace it, cause it seems to go away for a while if you do anything. The longest time I had it away was after I changed the stock suspension to Sportivo, but it came back even with that.

[Jap GT300]

Have you ever driven a car with a locked differential.  I have for drifting and it is an exagerated version of what you describe, wheel hop from side ways pressure.  This can occur at minimal speed and full lock.

[Tem]

Have you ever driven a car with a locked differential.

Hey I live in Finland and we drive old junks during winter, guess what's the most popular winter beater mod!  s:lol: :lol: s:lol:  It's so common, that we call it Kemppi-lock, cause Kemppi is a very popular welding machine over here  s:D s:D

I have for drifting and it is an exagerated version of what you describe, wheel hop from side ways pressure.  This can occur at minimal speed and full lock.

I'm pretty sure mine's not that  s:? :? s:?  It's a very clear metallic noise and like I said, happened even when the wheels didn't move at all.

[aaronjb]

I'm pretty sure mine's not that  s:? :? s:?  It's a very clear metallic noise and like I said, happened even when the wheels didn't move at all.

Interesting - wonder if there are two noises that we're all thinking are one and the same.. Mine make no noise just turning the wheel, only when I've got the wheel on full lock and I'm moving foward/backward..

[Tem]

Interesting - wonder if there are two noises that we're all thinking are one and the same..

I was just thinking the same...kinda seems so  s:? :? s:?

[aaronjb]

I was just thinking the same...kinda seems so  s:? :? s:?

So, thinking along the lines of your noise - did you ever get the modified power steering hose fitted to yours? (Wait.. what year is your car? They could have started fitting it for the '03s, come to think of it)

[Tem]

I was just thinking the same...kinda seems so  s:? :? s:?

So, thinking along the lines of your noise - did you ever get the modified power steering hose fitted to yours? (Wait.. what year is your car? They could have started fitting it for the '03s, come to think of it)

No, never had anything changed regarding this. It's one of the first european cars, with the running serial number of 9250, so it should have all the buggy parts there ever were  s:lol: :lol: s:lol:

[Anonymous]

It does seem like two separate noises...

The best way I can think to describe the one I have is that it sounds & feels almost like the suspension is 'settling' after being stood for a while - but it's much more exaggerated when it's cold   s:? :? s:?  

So... first thing in the morning, reverse out of drive, as soon as full lock is approached it feels like driving over small stones (no, there aren't any small stones   s:P s:P  ) as the front end 'skips' and clonks (audible, but not very loud) a few times.

Straighten out and drive away there may be a couple more but generally that's about it. If I play in the car park at work I get the occasional one but it seems to be warm or 'settled' by then.
Then I get the same on the way home (more pronounced if its been cold).

I believe that I have had the steering hose mod done, although it *was* just listed as 'steering mod' on the worksheet.

I haven't encountered the other noise, as far as I know   s:shock: :shock: s:shock:  

That's my little essay over   s:) s:)

[aaronjb]

No, never had anything changed regarding this. It's one of the first european cars, with the running serial number of 9250, so it should have all the buggy parts there ever were  s:lol: :lol: s:lol:

 s:lol: :lol: s:lol:  The Beta version?  s;) s;)

Perhaps your noise is related to this steering mod, then.. Only trouble is, I only have a vague idea of what it might be as well - the service guy explained it as "A new high pressure PS hose" because "the old ones used to get bubbles in them" - which sounds odd in a sealed system, though I suppose he could have meant cavitation - but under PS system pressures I'd have thought that unlikely except for inside the pump itself..

[Anonymous]

The noise was there before and after the steering mod... the mod was the solution to the clunking   s:? :? s:?

[aaronjb]

The noise was there before and after the steering mod... the mod was the solution to the clunking   s:? :? s:?

I know - but I was referring to the noise Tem has, who doesn't have the steering mod, and appears to have a different noise to you (I think, kinda hard to tell over the internet)..

I think you have the same noise as me - or do you have a clunk noise when turning from lock to lock without moving forward or backward?

[Anonymous]

Oops... I got mixed up about which clonking you were talking about, sorry   s:oops: :oops: s:oops:  

I don't get it turning lock to lock, no. Start to move, turn the wheel to full lock and just as it get's there I feel the clunking and it feels as though the tyres are skipping a little or the suspension is shifting slightly.

It's only when actually *on* or just before full lock, not between.

I do think we have matching clunks  s:) s:)

[aaronjb]

Oops... I got mixed up about which clonking you were talking about, sorry   s:oops: :oops: s:oops:  

Easily done  s:) s:)

I do think we have matching clunks  s:) s:)

Yep, yours sounds exactly like mine - I just put it down to the tyres skipping (like you said) in the end.. I have nobody I can ask to stare at the wheels first thing in the morning, though, to see if it really is that..

[DannyN]

Just to add my 'twopennyworth'

Mine does exactly the same as Rick and Aaronjb.  I too have a matching clunk when setting off with full lock

[GSB]

Want an explanation? I looked into this problem recently, and I have been able to ascertain there are 2 seperate issues with the front suspension that cause this knocking...


The first of these is dry or worn suspension top mounts. These are bearings that allow the front macpherson struts to swivel with the steering. When these dry out, or become worn, you will notice a distict rattle from them, especialy in turns. I used to notice it most in myold car when turning right into my driveway. Theres a dropped curb there, about 1/3" high. When turning in this curb would make the strut tops rattle.

The second of these, and the one that will affect all cars, is one of design... In basic terms, its caused by the front wheels not pointing in the same direction.

The steering geometry is carefully designed using ackerman geometry so that when you turn, one wheel moves more than the other. This is due to the fact that one wheel needs to follow a different - tighter - radius to the other. To give the correct angles for tight and shallow turns the difference in steering angle between the 2 wheels increases the further you turn the wheel. All this is engineered into the steering by careful placement of all the various pivot points etc. If you want to know more, google "Ackerman steering geometry"



The downside of this careful geometry is that when you get to full lock, the wheels are actually pointed in markedly different directions. This generates side loadings on the tyres. With these loadings, one of 2 things will happen:

1/ On nice hot supple rubber, the tread blocks will squirm and flex and let the loads out very smoothly, you probably wont even notice.

2/ On cold rubber, or tyres so worn that the tread blocks have very limited movement, the rubber will load up to its limit of adhesion, and then let go. It does this very quickly, and the repeats the process. This is what you feel as a knocking...

[aaronjb]

Good stuff Grant - I had a feeling that was the reason for (my) knocking, except I had no idea what the technical terms for it were  s:) s:)

As always, you're a mine of useful information  s:) s:)

[Anonymous]

Thanks for sticking with this one, guys   s:) s:)  and excellent information, Grant, cheers!   s:D s:D  

Now... I'll have to look into lubing those top mounts...
Anybody done it?  s8) s8)

[Tem]

Now... I'll have to look into lubing those top mounts...
Anybody done it?  s8) s8)

Yeah...I did that when I installed the Sportivo and the noise was gone for two years or so. So that might very well be it...

[edward.carter]

Now... I'll have to look into lubing those top mounts...
Anybody done it?  s8) s8)

Yeah...I did that when I installed the Sportivo and the noise was gone for two years or so. So that might very well be it...

is this a simple job ?