Project Custard - Gearbox issues

[custardavenger]

Will try and post one. So I beat you by lots. Saw 93!!

[custardavenger]

Dam forgot to save it give me a sec while i get it from the car.

[aaronjb]

Crikey! Then again - what do you see the rest of the time?  Idle for me shows 5-7, cruising around is 10-12..

I have seen well over 100 once or twice, but it's not "real" knock - logging with Copilot and checking when it happens shows it was with zero throttle on a gearchange, so it's just 'noise', not knock..

[custardavenger]

Ok so

[custardavenger]

As for the intake temps don't know yet. Will be able to do more with them when the MAF is in the right place.

Crikey! Then again - what do you see the rest of the time?  Idle for me shows 5-7, cruising around is 10-12..

I have seen well over 100 once or twice, but it's not "real" knock - logging with Copilot and checking when it happens shows it was with zero throttle on a gearchange, so it's just 'noise', not knock..

Average knock seams to be 10 - 35 at the moment but that may not be right.

[aaronjb]

Interesting - the fuel map makes sense (it's the same direction I'm heading in, although richer with the lack of cooling), and you're not running that much more timing than me - I have 16* where you have 19* or thereabouts.. but..

What, on earth, are those four cells of 40° advance doing there?  No wonder you see humungous knock!  To give you an example, in the same four cells (which are at the top end of a WOT pull for me, as I suspect they are for you) I have 15° and 14°...

The 49 knock in the cell to the left of that (6000rpm, 14000 load) is probably a carry over from the cells to the right - you have to keep in mind that the PFC is actually constantly using a weighted average of the four nearest cells, but when you're logging stuff you only ever log "in" the cell (actually Copilot applies the weighted-ness and logs proportionally in the four nearest cells, but I don't believe FC-Edit does)

[custardavenger]

I was basicaly adding advance to try and get rid of knock a couplle of degrees at a time. Please tell me I'm a fool and have got it totally wrong. It worked for other cells but just couldn't get those few down.

I know what your saying about Copilot. I have had a look at it but it's got so much in it it's a bit scary.

[custardavenger]

Noticed you Igl map is different. Is that tuned by Copilot?

[aaronjb]

I was basicaly adding advance to try and get rid of knock a couplle of degrees at a time. Please tell me I'm a fool and have got it totally wrong. It worked for other cells but just couldn't get those few down.

You erm.. have it back to front  s;) s;)  Remove advance - retard the timing - to reduce knock (at least, spark induced knock).

Copilot will auto-tune knock, by the way.. you just tell it your target and it will keep retarding until knock reaches that level.. it can even figure out what is "real" knock vs. "background noise" on your particular car (it retards the ignition till knock no longer goes down, basically).


The Igl map is the default 1ZZ map, just shifted 'up' a couple of rows because my idle is a couple of rows lower than it was with the stock MAF when NA - Copilot only works with the Ign map (and Inj & Base, naturally)

[custardavenger]

I was basicaly adding advance to try and get rid of knock a couplle of degrees at a time. Please tell me I'm a fool and have got it totally wrong. It worked for other cells but just couldn't get those few down.

You erm.. have it back to front  s;) s;)  Remove advance - retard the timing - to reduce knock (at least, spark induced knock).

Copilot will auto-tune knock, by the way.. you just tell it your target and it will keep retarding until knock reaches that level.. it can even figure out what is "real" knock vs. "background noise" on your particular car (it retards the ignition till knock no longer goes down, basically).


The Igl map is the default 1ZZ map, just shifted 'up' a couple of rows because my idle is a couple of rows lower than it was with the stock MAF when NA - Copilot only works with the Ign map (and Inj & Base, naturally)

Oh the shame.

Oh well. this is how you learn.

On copilot there does seam to be alot of info/settings on the setup for auto tune. I had a look at it while connected to the car but it one of the required conditions not met (can't remember which) What would you suggest I do with the various settings and how do I go about actually running it?

[custardavenger]

Ok while tuning today I belw the engine. (all my fault) Think I may have melted cyl No.2. More to come soon when I get it back to Salisbury.

[Wabbitkilla]

Ouch, bad luck Rob.

GTSchris has about 3 engines in stock from breakers - varying mileage, he does a compression test before selling them.
Anywhere between £750 and £1500 is my guess for an engine from him.

[northernalex]

Oh dear.. tough luck..

Nic.. cant see a 70 quid engine being very good?

edit.. darn nic went back and changed his original £70 into £750  s:( s:(

[custardavenger]

Thats cool. I'm hoping it's not that bad. Gonna try and rebuild it first. Maybe upgrade if I can raise the funds.

[Wabbitkilla]

Rob, you ever thought of just getting it tuned properly somewhere instead of saving money?

[custardavenger]

Rob, you ever thought of just getting it tuned properly somewhere instead of saving money?

lol. Where's the fun in that? It's the learning from your mistakes thats so satisfying. I'm not that bothered really. I think I have a cunning plan. Just need to get myself sorted out logisticaly.

[Wabbitkilla]

I think you need an EGT on there Rob if you're going down this route.
Unless you've already got one in which case why were you ignring it.

Lots of "fun" now   s:shock: :shock: s:shock:   to get it going again, but it'll be interesting to see what's happened.

[Anonymous]

Might be fun the first time, but what about when you're on your 3rd/4th/18th engine? Seriously Rob, as was said on the last page when you were having issues get it tuned before it goes pop and takes you with it.

I can appreciate as well as anyone the trying to do it all yourself approach, but there comes a point when you really need to let an expert have a go.

[custardavenger]

Haven't got one and nowhere to put one either. Like I said it was my own fault. I should have been watching the intake temps more closely and expected the knock, and let it cool down for a while. On the plus side I've just won a charge cooler on ebay.

[custardavenger]

Might be fun the first time, but what about when you're on your 3rd/4th/18th engine? Seriously Rob, as was said on the last page when you were having issues get it tuned before it goes pop and takes you with it.

I can appreciate as well as anyone the trying to do it all yourself approach, but there comes a point when you really need to let an expert have a go.

Ok the problem I have with that is. How many time do I go back and get it tuned? I had planned to get a profesional tune on it but not untill I have got the SC setup to a point where I think it's mechanicaly at it's full potential. It may go pop again after this. Who knows but thats the risk when you modify something.

I'm really not that upset about it. Of course I'm not sure how much this is gonna set me back but tuning this car has become a hobby. I get just as much enjoyment driving it as I do learning about tuning and developing it. I made a mistake. I have learnt from it. (the hard way) but now I can look forward to rebuilding it (Stronger Faster Better). It is a shame I'll miss Anglesea etc.

I'd like to take this opertunity to thank everyone who has given me advice. I do apreciate it even though it seems I'm being stubborn and ignoring it. If it wasn't for the help from you chap I would have never taken this on.

Anyway. Think I may keep the car of the road for at least a couple of months. Have along list of stuff I want to do to it so am gonna do as much at once as money will allow. List to follow.

[spit]

Tough break Rob   s:( s:(  

I've plenty of useful part numbers and info to-hand if its any use to you. Shout soon before it disappears under another pile of cr@p   s:wink: :wink: s:wink:

[Anonymous]

Just to repeat what the above have said - tough one that Rob, I hope you manage to get it sorted soon.

The other Rob.  s:D s:D

[custardavenger]

Well my first question is. I'm assuming that you have to take the engine out to remove the head?

If taking engine out can it be suspended buy the engine hangers and does anyone have any?

Install the No. 1 and No. 2 engine hangers in the correct
direction.
Parts No.:
No. 1 engine hanger: 12281–22021
No. 2 engine hanger: 12281–15040
Bolt: 91512–B1016
Torque: 38 N·m (387 kgf·cm, 28 ft·lbf)

Also in the engine removal it says to remove the rear suspension member. Is this reall nesssersary? I'm hoping if I remove the gearbox, manifold and anything else I can get at first then it will fit out the bottom. If I have to remove it may be worth me buying the pit jack I've been afetr for ages but it will put another month on the rebuild for me paying for it.


Plan is

Suspend engine from roof beam with a hoist (anyone know the weight of the engine), lower through engine bay into pit and bolt to engine stand, then hoist the whole lot back up again.

Will need to get hold of
Engine hangers and chains
Hoist (pos rent or borrow)
Engine stand (maybe buy from ebay)

[custardavenger]

Also looking at pistons. What is the standard compression ratio?

[loadswine]

Sorry to hear about the engine failure Rob, hope you get it sorted without too much grief.