Flywheel comparison and review thread

[Kool PT]

Anyone fancy filling in the blanks? I have bits of data from various retailers, does anyone have an opinion on which is better than others having compared them? Does anybody have before/after 0-60 times, or a rough idea of how much the acceleration would improve?

Stock flywheel - 7.23kg

TRD flywheel - 4.48kg ('38% lighter than stock')
C-One flywheel - 4.5kg
RPS flywheel - 4.1kg
JUN flywheel - 4.6kg
TOM'S flywheel - 3.8kg
Fidanza flywheel - 3.6kg
MWR flywheel - 4.5kg

[markiii]

for details and best price on teh rps got to  w www.ppeengineering.com w

it's going to be hard to quantify as most people will not have tried more than one, me included

no complaints from me on teh RPS though, I would buy another

[Kool PT]

don't see it on the PPE site...

(by the way, is there any UK distributor for PPE?)

[Anonymous]

RPS = WIN

[Kool PT]

also the only one i've not seen for sale anywhere

[Anonymous]

don't see it on the PPE site...

Clicky

[ChrisGB]

Anyone fancy filling in the blanks? I have bits of data from various retailers, does anyone have an opinion on which is better than others having compared them? Does anybody have before/after 0-60 times, or a rough idea of how much the acceleration would improve?

Stock flywheel - weight?

TRD flywheel - '38% lighter' (need stock figure before I can put in weight)
C-One flywheel - 4.5kg
RPS flywheel - any recollection markiii?
JUN flywheel - 4.6kg
TOM'S flywheel - 3.8kg

Who else does one?

Monkeywrench Racing do a Chromolloy one at 10.2 lbs. Remember it is not just the weight, but where it is relative to the centre of the flywheel. RPS are well regarded, so a safe bet.

PPE have no UK distributor, so best bet is to deal with them directly. I have done so in the past and can highly recommend them. I am probably buying a decat pipe off them this week. Just have to check the bank balance first.

Chris

[Kool PT]

These all sound veeeeeeeeeeery interesting. Quick question - does it make traffic driving a pain in the ass? Do you not need to give the gas pedal a bit more juice to stop the revs dropping so quickly and stalling?

[Anonymous]

N/A there's no downsides whatsoever that I found, except a tendency to put your foot down more often  s;) s;)

[Steven Velocity]

Anyone fancy filling in the blanks? I have bits of data from various retailers, does anyone have an opinion on which is better than others having compared them? Does anybody have before/after 0-60 times, or a rough idea of how much the acceleration would improve?

Stock flywheel - weight?

TRD flywheel - '38% lighter' (need stock figure before I can put in weight)
C-One flywheel - 4.5kg
RPS flywheel - 4.1kg
JUN flywheel - 4.6kg
TOM'S flywheel - 3.8kg
Fidanza flywheel - 3.6kg
MWR flywheel - 4.5kg

There's two more on the list. Sorry I don't have any 0-60 times or acceleration figures, but I do have butt dyno data.  s:mrgreen: :mrgreen: s:mrgreen:  

These all sound veeeeeeeeeeery interesting. Quick question - does it make traffic driving a pain in the ass? Do you not need to give the gas pedal a bit more juice to stop the revs dropping so quickly and stalling?

I have experience with stock, TRD, MWR (Monkey Wrench Racing), and Fidanza. The TRD gives you a little acceleration over stock with no real downsides, except maybe having to shift to the next gear slightly faster. The MWR feels about the same as the TRD, and acceleration is slightly improved. The Fidanza (which I currently use) very noticeably improves acceleration and braking. The rpm rise fast and fall fast, and vehicle speed does the same. There are a few drawbacks for regular traffic commuting though.

You have to shift faster to catch the right rpm or rely on the syncros much more often to match the rpm for you.

You can feel engine pulses & surges(less flywheel mass to absorb them), so cruising at a steady speed becomes a tiny little bit challenging. The car tends to surge just a little bit, especially on slightly graded downward roads.

Occasionally (but not all the time) the revs do drop fast enough for the engine to stall. I find that the higher rpm they drop from the more chance of a stall. For example, if I let off the gas & push in the clutch at freeway speed (70ish mph) there's a good chance of a stall.

[spit]

Occasionally (but not all the time) the revs do drop fast enough for the engine to stall.

I'm not finding that at all with ex-Markiii's RPS since cleaning out the IAC valve - revs drop quickly on de-clutch from any speed to settle quietly at 700rpm without fail. Before the clean-out I had a risk of stalling and couldn't rely on a steady idle. Just thought I'd throw this in as it was a problem that had nothing to do with the flywheel   s:lol: :lol: s:lol:  

back o/t.....

[Steven Velocity]

I'm not finding that at all with ex-Markiii's RPS since cleaning out the IAC valve - revs drop quickly on de-clutch from any speed to settle quietly at 700rpm without fail. Before the clean-out I had a risk of stalling and couldn't rely on a steady idle. Just thought I'd throw this in as it was a problem that had nothing to do with the flywheel   s:lol: :lol: s:lol:  back o/t.....

Thanks for pointing that out Ste, that is something to keep in mind for anyone looking to switch to a lighter flywheel. As for my particular case, I've recently scrubbed the TB & cleaned the IAC (which wasn't very dirty to begin with, but I'm meticulous with my baby  s:roll: :roll: s:roll:  ), but still have the same results. Could be the whole 2zz thing   s:wink: :wink: s:wink:  . I'm not complaining though; as long as I'm below 3k rpm when I de-clutch I very rarely have a stall.

[Kool PT]

You can feel engine pulses & surges(less flywheel mass to absorb them), so cruising at a steady speed becomes a tiny little bit challenging. The car tends to surge just a little bit, especially on slightly graded downward roads.

Occasionally (but not all the time) the revs do drop fast enough for the engine to stall. I find that the higher rpm they drop from the more chance of a stall. For example, if I let off the gas & push in the clutch at freeway speed (70ish mph) there's a good chance of a stall.

Thanks for the data and advice, I have added it to the OP.

I must say that the comments above worry me slighly though. Stalling at 70mph isn't my idea of fun.

HOWEVER would someone running a 1zz have the same issues? I was under the impression that most people running turbo or 2zz setups generally steered clear of lighter flywheels because of the reasons you've listed.

As a general question, how many butt horses are we talking about here? Would switching to RPS flywheel for example improve acceleration on my current setup (see below) more or less than a unichip? Once you factor in shipping, it would be a similar cost to a cheap 2nd hand uni.

[aaronjb]

Pretty sure the entire Ogura clutch setup (that's flywheel, clutch disc, pressure plate and clutch cover) weighed ~4Kg, so it's probably one of the lightest you can get hold of - no problems with stalling, no problems cruising, no problems whatsoever (clutch itself was a bit of a mare to get used to, but that's a different thing entirely).

[markiii]

never had an issue with a lightened flywheel on 1zz at all

[philster_d]

Some of those listed are 1 piece and some have replaceable parts in them.

/Phil

[northernalex]

Pretty sure the entire Ogura clutch setup (that's flywheel, clutch disc, pressure plate and clutch cover) weighed ~4Kg, so it's probably one of the lightest you can get hold of - no problems with stalling, no problems cruising, no problems whatsoever (clutch itself was a bit of a mare to get used to, but that's a different thing entirely).

Doesn't it sound like a bag of nails too when you depress the clutch?

[markiii]

bloke with a pneumatic drill more like  :-) :-) :-)

[Kool PT]

what is the average lifespan of stock clutch? my car has 86k on the clock, bought it at 82k. flywheel is not the sort of thing that I'd have money to buy on the side if my clutch DID go, so I was thinking that there might be a point in my car's life when it was worth taking proactive measures and replacing it. I don't notice slip day to day, but if trying to do a 0-60 sprint it can lag a bit before biting properly.

Also, is there any benefit to fitting an expensive uprated clutch whilst running n/a, or is it purely required to handle the extra power of a turbo/2zz?

[aaronjb]

Doesn't it sound like a bag of nails too when you depress the clutch?

Yes, yes it does.. but it's meant to, so I don't count that as a driveability problem  s;) s;)

(Although it is hideously embarassing!)

It also makes a "fart" noise when you slip it, now.. needs a good thrashing to clean it up.

[Tem]

what is the average lifespan of stock clutch?

It really depends a lot from how you drive. I needed a new clutch at 20tkm.  s:lol: :lol: s:lol:  Some make it beyond 300tkm.

I don't notice slip day to day, but if trying to do a 0-60 sprint it can lag a bit before biting properly.

Every 0-60 sprint shortens the life...  s;) s;)

Also, is there any benefit to fitting an expensive uprated clutch whilst running n/a, or is it purely required to handle the extra power of a turbo/2zz?

I fit the TRD clutch when I was N/A. It felt great and could handle a lot of abuse. You can slide it a lot more than stock, for example when doing a quick launch and it doesn't seem to mind it.

But yeah, the usual reason is that the stock clutch can't handle the extra torque with boost.

[Steven Velocity]

I must say that the comments above worry me slighly though. Stalling at 70mph isn't my idea of fun.

Its not like an immediate, depress the clutch and engine is off stall. Its more of a press in the clutch and hold it to see if it will stall, stall. Its something like this. Depress the clutch and hold from around 4k rpm or so. Rpm dive while the engine is in fuel cutoff, but much quicker than the ecm anticipated, so it turns the injectors back on a little late. The rpm then rise, but much quicker than the ecm anticipated, so it turns the injectors back off. Then the rpm dive again, faster than the ecm expected again, (ecm is trying to find a nice steady idle) and so the process is repeated once or twice until we either have idle or stall. Now if I depress the clutch and hold it there from 6.3k or higher the rpm will dive steadily until they hit zero, no hunting.

HOWEVER, would someone running a 1zz have the same issues? I was under the impression that most people running turbo or 2zz setups generally steered clear of lighter flywheels because of the reasons you've listed.

I did forget to mention that I have a free flowing exhaust & open cold air intake which does exacerbate this condition. I don't think a 1zz ( and maybe a stock 2zz) would have these issues to the same extent, but I don't have any experience with Fidanza+1zz or Fidanza+stock. Aaron's data (Aaron you've gotten smaller!  s:wink: :wink: s:wink:  )does seem to seems to support no issues though.

As a general question, how many butt horses are we talking about here? Would switching to RPS flywheel for example improve acceleration on my current setup (see below) more or less than a unichip? Once you factor in shipping, it would be a similar cost to a cheap 2nd hand uni.

I think the Unichip would improve your acceleration more than the RPS flywheel, and give you more civilized power at that. It would most likely be cheaper than a lightened flywheel, because the lightened flywheel performs best with a stronger, faster grabbing clutch. Flywheel+clutch disc & pressure plate+labour (if you're not installing yourself)>Unichip+install+tuning (if you have it tuned) in price. Flywheel+clutch kit+Unichip = much better acceleration over stock, and weight saving due to a lightened wallet.  s:? :? s:?

[Steven Velocity]

Pretty sure the entire Ogura clutch setup (that's flywheel, clutch disc, pressure plate and clutch cover) weighed ~4Kg

  s:shock: :shock: s:shock:    s:shock: :shock: s:shock:  
Wow thats really light! If the whole gettup is only 4kg, I wonder what the flywheel weighs? What is your flywheel made of, and what stage clutch (full face or pucked, sprung or not, torque abilities, etc) is it, and does the setup chatter?

(off to do some research...)

[aaronjb]

Wow thats really light! If the whole gettup is only 4kg, I wonder what the flywheel weighs? What is your flywheel made of, and what stage clutch (full face or pucked, sprung or not, torque abilities, etc) is it, and does the setup chatter?

(off to do some research...)

It's an ORC309 - torque handling isn't huge, but it's enough for now.  I actually wouldn't recommend it, though, for a daily driver.

It's a floating-plate clutch - the pressure plate is not attached to the clutch cover, so it rattles when you have the clutch down and sounds like a jar of nails, quite literally. It's aggressive to the extremel, too, slipping this without Kirks mounts or an engine damper will result in the engine bucking back and forth to the full extent that the torque mounts allow..

The whole thing seems to be some kind of light alloy, aside from the mating faces:



http://zion.mind-design.co.uk/roadster/clutch/DSC00079.JPG
http://zion.mind-design.co.uk/roadster/clutch/DSC00078.JPG

[Steven Velocity]

It should be a crime to market a flywheel as "lightened" but then not give the weight. I've been searching for the last half hour for the weight of just the Ogura (ORC) flywheel  with no success at all  s:x :x s:x  . The closest I can get is a member of elisetalk weighing his whole set up at 8.1kg.