Flywheel comparison and review thread

[Kool PT]

I think the Unichip would improve your acceleration more than the RPS flywheel, and give you more civilized power at that. It would most likely be cheaper than a lightened flywheel, because the lightened flywheel performs best with a stronger, faster grabbing clutch. Flywheel+clutch disc & pressure plate+labour (if you're not installing yourself)>Unichip+install+tuning (if you have it tuned) in price. Flywheel+clutch kit+Unichip = much better acceleration over stock, and weight saving due to a lightened wallet.  s:? :? s:?

I see what you're saying, but if a clutch needs replaced anyway then the cost of the flywheel itself is proportionally less.

[tom_deas]

I think the Unichip would improve your acceleration more than the RPS flywheel, and give you more civilized power at that. It would most likely be cheaper than a lightened flywheel, because the lightened flywheel performs best with a stronger, faster grabbing clutch. Flywheel+clutch disc & pressure plate+labour (if you're not installing yourself)>Unichip+install+tuning (if you have it tuned) in price. Flywheel+clutch kit+Unichip = much better acceleration over stock, and weight saving due to a lightened wallet.  s:? :? s:?

I see what you're saying, but if a clutch needs replaced anyway then the cost of the flywheel itself is proportionally less.

my clutch is drastically starting to slip too so think im going to drop in a flywheel while im at it as well. unsure which to go for, c-one's seems pretty cheap at £215, but id hold more stock with getting a TRD one for £275 rather than risk the damage a poorly engineered one can cause. found a good site on that note with tonnes of parts, havent heard it mentioned on here before so apologies if it already has been mentioned -

 m http://www.nengun.com/drivetrain/ m

or for just MRS parts...

NENGUN MRS

though having a look there ive noticed can get a TRD clutch for about £200... not as much as i was expecting... might invest in a TRD clutch and flywheel combo??

and interesting... TRD reckon their "markiii" pipe gives up to 11kW... or 14bhp. thats a bit bloody eager i think!!

TRD - Inlet DuctThe TRD inlet duct is optimised for length and resistance and improves maximum power by up to 11kw.

[evileye_wrx]

What makes you think C-One would be poorly engineered? Have you heard something I haven't? Lots of people on here have used C-One parts and I've never heard that said of them.

I've not used Nengun myself but have browsed their site. Can't comment on customer service.

If your going for a clutch you might want to consider Cluth City in the States. I've just bought an ACT clutch from them for £285 all in. Just waiting on it clearing customs so fingers crossed   s:wink: :wink: s:wink:  

Phil

[ChrisGB]

Useful thread this one. I am liking the look of the Fidanza flywheel with the 4 puck Kevlar clutch or the carbon / kevlar full disc. I like the RPS with its segmented friction face as well. Trouble is that my standard clutch is showing absolutely no signs of slipping (and I am potless at the moment).

Chris

[Anonymous]

Can you change the flywheel on it's own? I know there's obvious benefits to doing the clutch while you're there, but is there any mechanical reason you can't?

[tom_deas]

What makes you think C-One would be poorly engineered? Have you heard something I haven't? Lots of people on here have used C-One parts and I've never heard that said of them.

I've not used Nengun myself but have browsed their site. Can't comment on customer service.

If your going for a clutch you might want to consider Cluth City in the States. I've just bought an ACT clutch from them for £285 all in. Just waiting on it clearing customs so fingers crossed   s:wink: :wink: s:wink:  

Phil

yeah that was a pretty unfair comment on my part against c-one. only point is that a flywheel can potentially be extremely detrimental to an engines functionality and reliability, and getting something with the toyota stamp on would put a bit of piece of mind that they wouldnt tout something that was beyond the capacity of the engine / components to handle. i work in motorsport transmissions, so heard some horror stories with flywheels that are shaved a bit too fine.

however, that said, they did let the precat problem slip through the net!

no mechanical reason you cant no. ive decided to stick with stock clutch and just upgrade the flywheel. wont have the car long enough to justify the clutch - to be frank im barely struggling to justify the flywheel, if not for the fact that it will make the car a bit more fun and the labour a bit more of an investment.

[ChrisGB]

Can you change the flywheel on it's own? I know there's obvious benefits to doing the clutch while you're there, but is there any mechanical reason you can't?

Only thing I can think of is that if the flywheel surface and clutch surface have worn together leaving high bands on the clutch plate, corresponding to low bands on the old flywheel / pressure plate, the new flywheel may encourage some slip while it runs in. This happens with some new clutches and flywheels anyway.

Chris

[Tem]

TRD reckon their "markiii" pipe gives up to 11kW... or 14bhp. thats a bit bloody eager i think!!

Actually, TRD says that the inlet pipe AND header AND exhaust give 11kW, if you do them all.

You can improve maximum power by about 11 kW (15 ps) and maximum torque by about 7.5 N*m (0.8 kgf*m) by also installing a Ver. S high-response muffler (17400-ZW300) and exhaust manifold (17100-ZW301). (TRD bench test values)

m http://trdparts.jp/english/parts_inlet-duct.html m

Someone else selling their stuff might say something else.  s;) s;)

[Tem]

I've not used Nengun myself but have browsed their site. Can't comment on customer service.

I've used them. TBH, the customer service is kinda poor. They don't bother answering "stupid" questions. But if you just order online, you get your stuff, or at least I always did.


Also, if you want them to carry stuff that they don't, you can just email them and it tends to show up there. Often with a nice price too.

[northernalex]

Negun actually looks pretty cheap.. the short shifters (TRD) are about 80 quid, which is the lowest I've ever seen them

If you're thinking of going TRD I would shoot CTP a pm or dave at prolex and see what they can do first. Known sellers. And come highly recommended.

GB on lightweight flywheels anyone  s:) s:)  lol

[tom_deas]

ahh cheers mate but decided against the flywheel. had a rather dull day at work, chatted about it with one of the senior design engineers i work with who was like "hang on a sec mate, theres a guy from TRD upstairs!"... grabbed him at lunch, had a chat about it and we agreed that for my personal circumstances (CANT STRESS THAT ENOUGH, NOT PUTTING ANYONE OFF), its not really worth it. would be nice though. but the bolts - the BOLTS, 60 NOTES FOR THE FLYWHEEL BOLTS!!! had a bloody heart attack! but yeah, so decided against the flywheel. to be frank im pretty happy with the power of the car as it is really. a bit more would be nice on slim every now and thens, but on the whole it does me fine, keeps me happy  s:) s:)  besides, the manifold should pull a couple more to keep me amused, and id much rather spend the money on changing all four tyres for matching ones AND getting some tein's (just the springs) than on a flywheel.

so sorry yeah ive just hijacked this thread for nothing, continue   s:D s:D  

and yeah nengun seemed cheap, but the shipping prices are pretty hefty. for a group buy i can imagine though should be a good source. plus, they're sending from japan if i remember correctly, so import charges?? but they sell the TRD clutch kit - had trouble finding it elsewhere... and £190 before shipping was a lot less than i was expecting i must be honest, that isnt a bad price

[markiii]

not trying to change your mind, but the flywheel is about way more than extra power, it changes the whole character of teh car (for tehbetter imho)

[tom_deas]

not trying to change your mind, but the flywheel is about way more than extra power, it changes the whole character of the car (for tehbetter imho)

definately. i would love to get one, no doubt about it. but... im a student going back to uni in 6 weeks and im running a tight budget as it is

plus, turns out, the clutch isnt going, it was just dirty. sprayed a bit of clutch cleaner up in that general direction past the crank - sorted. miraculously. no slip at all. bizzare. mind you, that does show its on its way out - and the bite point is still extremely high - but the longer i can put off that expense, the better

and the reason it got dirty in the first place - one back from nappy fell off a little while ago and couldnt find the bolts to put it back on. though, ive found some other bolts now, so im cleaning the clutch out properly (along with the drivebelt for that matter) and putting it back on - its fine in the dry but the wet weather is doing neither any favours, so will stop being lazy and get on with it!

[Christopherathens]

Pretty sure the entire Ogura clutch setup (that's flywheel, clutch disc, pressure plate and clutch cover) weighed ~4Kg, so it's probably one of the lightest you can get hold of - no problems with stalling, no problems cruising, no problems whatsoever (clutch itself was a bit of a mare to get used to, but that's a different thing entirely).

4kg for the whole setup would be crazy Aaron..It would mean that the flywheel is about 1,5kg..  s:D s:D  

 Here is the exact weight of the Ogura 2zz setup: 9 kg



I don't know if there's another Ogura setup that is lighter though!!

[Tem]

but the bolts - the BOLTS, 60 NOTES FOR THE FLYWHEEL BOLTS!!!

And that's the reason why these are popular.  s;) s;)
 m http://monkeywrenchracing.com/mwr_arp_f ... zz_ge.html m

[Steven Velocity]

but the bolts - the BOLTS, 60 NOTES FOR THE FLYWHEEL BOLTS!!!

And that's the reason why these are popular.  s;) s;)
 m http://monkeywrenchracing.com/mwr_arp_f ... zz_ge.html m

Yes, the ARP flywheel bolts are very good. They're, super strong, reusable, and cheap, whereas the stock bolts are one use only (they stretch by design) and cost more. I have them on my car, and I recommend them as a replacement for stock. HOWEVER, for 1zz application it is absolutely critical that the ARP bolts are the same useable length as the stock bolts. Very often MWR will send bolts that are 1mm or 2mm longer than the stock bolts, and if you use these they press into the housing of the rear oil seal and lock up the engine. Usually no damage is done (although there is the possibility of damaging and or dislocating the seal), but if you were to put the car back together without realizing they were the wrong length you'd be well miffed that it wouldn't start, and the repeated attempts to start it would increase the chance of damaging the seal. If the ARP bolts you get are longer than stock, then you should also receive some ARP spacers that bring the bolt down to stock length. The ARP spacers have a chamfer on the bolt side and are made of the same stuff as the bolt itself. If you get longer bolts but no spacers   s:scared: :scared: s:scared:  then contact MWR or ARP to get the appropriate spacer, but do not use another spacer or lock washer! This will affect the torque spec, and cause the bolts to start to wiggle out of there bores resulting in catastrophic clutch failure (that last part was plagerized from ARP).

[Anonymous]

Just a nerd point really, but surely the lightened flywheel on its own just means that you get to higher revs quicker and to lower revs quicker.
Where you lose out is in the torque which the weight of the flywheel carries through the mid range   So, do this mod with an extreem cam to get the most benefit
Happy to be shot down

[ChrisGB]

Just a nerd point really, but surely the lightened flywheel on its own just means that you get to higher revs quicker and to lower revs quicker.
Where you lose out is in the torque which the weight of the flywheel carries through the mid range   So, do this mod with an extreem cam to get the most benefit
Happy to be shot down

Essentially, you are having to accelerate less weight, so it has no effect on power, but does have an effect on weight. Thinking about it, there must be quite a lot of energy in a flywheel going round at 7000rpm, so making it lighter, it will suck less energy out of the system. The differences will be largest in the lowest gears (where engine speed rises most rapidly). Cannot see any reason the for any negative effect on torque. Would be enlightened if someone could explain that effect?

Chris

[Anonymous]

My thinking is inertia, otherwise you could stop an oil tanker in a shorter distance Weight plus speed

[Steven Velocity]

Just a nerd point really, but surely the lightened flywheel on its own just means that you get to higher revs quicker and to lower revs quicker.
Where you lose out is in the torque which the weight of the flywheel carries through the mid range   So, do this mod with an extreem cam to get the most benefit Happy to be shot down

Essentially, you are having to accelerate less weight, so it has no effect on power, but does have an effect on weight. Thinking about it, there must be quite a lot of energy in a flywheel going round at 7000rpm, so making it lighter, it will suck less energy out of the system. The differences will be largest in the lowest gears (where engine speed rises most rapidly). Cannot see any reason the for any negative effect on torque. Would be enlightened if someone could explain that effect? Chris

Sure, I'll give it a go.
1st, a few defintions.

Mass: The amount of matter in an object; we'll use it interchangeably with weight since gravity is a relative constant, and kg will be our unit of measure.

Inertia: The property of matter by which it retains its state of rest or its velocity along a straight line so long as it is not acted upon by an external force. The more mass an object has, the more inertia that object has. The less mass an object has, the less inertia that object has.

Centripetal Force:The inward force acting upon an object in order to cause its inward acceleration. For the sake of simplicity we'll say this force changes the direction of inertia to maintain a circle. This definition is only mentioned because inertia acts in a straight line and needs an external force to justify moving in a circle. The more mass an object has, the more centripetal force required to maintain a circle.

Torque: The force applied to a lever multiplied by its distance from the lever's fulcrum; we'll use Nm as our unit of measure.

Now then, if you have a 7kg flywheel and 100Nm of torque, it will take (x) amount of time to overcome inertia and accelerate the flywheel from a state of rest to a state of movement, or velocity. The same applies to decelerating the flywheel from a state movement, or velocity, to a state of rest. If you remove 3kg from the flywheel then it will have less inertia, so it will take less time to overcome that inertia and accelerate the flywheel from a state of rest to a state of movement, or velocity, and also take less time to decelerate the flywheel from a state movement, or velocity, to a state of rest. In the real world torque is constantly changing with engine RPM and gear ratio, however the relationship between the mass of the flywheel, the amount of torque available, and the time taken to overcome inertia is the same. The effect of a lighter flywheel seems more noticeable in lower gears (1st, 2nd) because there is more torque available in them, but the relationship of mass, inertia, torque, and time is still the same. There also is no loss of mid range torque because the mass of the flywheel does not affect torque, only the time necessary to overcome inertia.

In layman's terms, the lighter the flywheel, the faster the rpm can climb and fall throughout the power band.

Savy?  /

[Tem]

Where you lose out is in the torque which the weight of the flywheel carries through the mid range  

I think you have been playing too much Gran Turismo.  s;) s;)

Steven pretty much explained it, but there's one occasion where a heavier flywheel can store more energy and release it. The storing happens when you rev the engine with the clutch pedal down. And the release happens when the clutch is slipping. Once it grabs, there's no extra stored energy anymore and you won't be losing midrange torque or anything else either.




That's with N/A engine though and turbo does shuffle the situation some. With a turbo, a heavier flywheel can actually make it spool up with lower revs, because of the extra load. That's assuming you floor it around idle and won't downshift. And that can give you extra torque before the turbo gets to set pressure. The confusing part is that even a turbo car with lighter flywheel is faster in reality with less torque and the reason is that it gets to the higher revs so much faster than the one with heavier flywheel.

And if you really want to be slower, but make more midrange torque, you can always drive with the handbrake on or get a heavy passenger. It'll do the same as a heavier flywheel.  s;) s;)

[northernalex]

Agreed to what Steve Said.. but in rotational terms Physicists don't talk about inertia, they talk about moment of inertia which is the rotational equivalent of mass.. i.e. its the inertia of a rigid rotating body with respect to its rotation. A heavier flywheel has a bigger moment of inertia (generally). So more torque is required to get this to turn, just as more force is needed to give something with more mass a different velocity (ether direction or magnitude - its a vector).

[ChrisGB]

Essentially, you are having to accelerate less weight, so it has no effect on power, but does have an effect on weight. Thinking about it, there must be quite a lot of energy in a flywheel going round at 7000rpm, so making it lighter, it will suck less energy out of the system. The differences will be largest in the lowest gears (where engine speed rises most rapidly). Cannot see any reason the for any negative effect on torque. Would be enlightened if someone could explain that effect? Chris

Sure, I'll give it a go.

Now then, if you have a 7kg flywheel and 100Nm of torque, it will take (x) amount of time to overcome inertia and accelerate the flywheel from a state of rest to a state of movement, or velocity. The same applies to decelerating the flywheel from a state movement, or velocity, to a state of rest. If you remove 3kg from the flywheel then it will have less inertia, so it will take less time to overcome that inertia and accelerate the flywheel from a state of rest to a state of movement, or velocity, and also take less time to decelerate the flywheel from a state movement, or velocity, to a state of rest. In the real world torque is constantly changing with engine RPM and gear ratio, however the relationship between the mass of the flywheel, the amount of torque available, and the time taken to overcome inertia is the same. The effect of a lighter flywheel seems more noticeable in lower gears (1st, 2nd) because there is more torque available in them, but the relationship of mass, inertia, torque, and time is still the same. There also is no loss of mid range torque because the mass of the flywheel does not affect torque, only the time necessary to overcome inertia.

In layman's terms, the lighter the flywheel, the faster the rpm can climb and fall throughout the power band.

Savy?  /

That is exactly as I understood it, but you often hear the old wives tale trotted out that the use of a light weight flywheel reduces the midrange torque. I would love someone to have explained why that happened   s:wink: :wink: s:wink:  

Anything to reduce coupled inertia, being it moment of inertia (flywheel, clutch assy, wheels) or overall inertia (body, passengers, fuel) will help acceleration at all engine speeds. Of course, as the car gets into higher gears, the differences become less noticeable because the acceleration is a function of force vs time, so the longer it takes to get through the gear, the less you will feel the benefit. On the downside, really light flywheels can make it more difficult to drive the car smoothly, but it will develop your pedal skills while you adjust.

Chris

[ChrisGB]

That's with N/A engine though and turbo does shuffle the situation some. With a turbo, a heavier flywheel can actually make it spool up with lower revs, because of the extra load. That's assuming you floor it around idle and won't downshift. And that can give you extra torque before the turbo gets to set pressure. The confusing part is that even a turbo car with lighter flywheel is faster in reality with less torque and the reason is that it gets to the higher revs so much faster than the one with heavier flywheel.

Or have a light flywheel and learn left foot braking  s:D s:D  

Chris

[Anonymous]

That's with N/A engine though and turbo does shuffle the situation some. With a turbo, a heavier flywheel can actually make it spool up with lower revs, because of the extra load. That's assuming you floor it around idle and won't downshift. And that can give you extra torque before the turbo gets to set pressure. The confusing part is that even a turbo car with lighter flywheel is faster in reality with less torque and the reason is that it gets to the higher revs so much faster than the one with heavier flywheel.

Or have a light flywheel and learn left foot braking  s:D s:D  

Chris

I never wrote that ?  s:scared: :scared: s:scared: