ad_car_08s pre-cat removal questions from his garage!!

[ad_car_08]

me again...
Thought i'd make a post with a more relevant title (mods can delete the other thread if necessary)

just taking a look at the heat shield - rather the bolts securing them and it doesn't look good.
What are my options? The bolt on the left of the picture is extremely rusted and shallow, the one on the right is rusted also, but i can get a small amount of grip on that, although with my weight behind it and gingerly pulling it round, it still slips with a hex socket.....



any suggestions??

[StuM]

Hi,

You really need to get some kind of releasing agent on there.  I did mine last weekend and liberal application of Plusgas a couple of times over the last month, and on the day, meant mine (although as rusty) came out fine.

The other two are a bit of a faff to reach to spray the PlusGas on.  

If you are in the middle of it and can't get PG, you can try WD40, but it's not as good at all.

Another tip is to get the engine warm first, then try.  Also, try tightening a little first, then undo them.

WARNING: HEAT SHIELD and manifold will be V hot!

Good luck.
Stu

[StuM]

Oh, and I don't think you can get the heat shield off over the O2 sensors, so those need to come out..

<sorry if you knew that already>

[onion86]

Oh, and I don't think you can get the heat shield off over the O2 sensors, so those need to come out..

<sorry if you knew that already>

You can get it over 1 but not with them both on.

If you don't have an O2 sensor socket you can use a spanner (a little more difficult but it's what I used)

[Anonymous]

Drill the buggers out, and leave the heat shield off altogether. Sorted.

[StuM]

Drill the buggers out, and leave the heat shield off altogether. Sorted.

The rusty bolts that is - not the O2 sensors!   s:lol: :lol: s:lol:

[ad_car_08]

Oh, and I don't think you can get the heat shield off over the O2 sensors, so those need to come out..

<sorry if you knew that already>

I didnt actually realise that   s:lol: :lol: s:lol:   thanks!

ok, just took a trip out to get a deep 12mm socket for the three amigos, and picked up some loctite freeze release.

So i let it cool for 5mins, then sprayed the loctite onto the heat sink bolts, left it for a few minutes &tried again.....still no f'in luck!!


Its so frustrating!! I feel like giving up because its so much blummin hassle!!! But if I dont carry on, my precats are gonna kill my engine!!! ARRRRGGGGHHHHH!!!!!


Ok, so what do I do now..I dont want to be left with the thread stuck in the engine but im running out of options on what to do!!  s:( s:(

[MR2 New Boy]

Speaking from experience. Drill them  out. I like you tried other routes but in the end had to drill 2 out.

much easier in the long run.

[ad_car_08]

Speaking from experience. Drill them  out. I like you tried other routes but in the end had to drill 2 out.

much easier in the long run.

drastic approach.....but seems inevitable

wont the metal filings go into the engine though? I've never had to drill a bolt out before, how do i do it? drill a small hole through the middle?

[StuM]

Going for Dan's option - if you do it carefully you should be able to preserve the thread on the bolt hole.  

Another way is to use a dremmel and create a slot in the bolt head that you can get a screw driver in, that might work.

The concern is that access to the two rear bolts is quite tight, so not sure you'd easily get a drill in there.

Are you getting purchase on the bolt head, or is it rounded?

[ad_car_08]

Are you getting purchase on the bolt head, or is it rounded?

it keeps slipping but not rounded

[StuM]

wont the metal filings go into the engine though? I've never had to drill a bolt out before, how do i do it? drill a small hole through the middle?

Those bolts just go into bolt holes on a lug that sticks out the side of the engine - nothing will go anywhere near the internals.

I would go for a drill that is a little smaller than the bolt (so, maybe 6mm) and straight down the middle.  Once the shield is off you should be able to pick the rest of the bits out from the hole.

Stu

[StuM]

Are you getting purchase on the bolt head, or is it rounded?

it keeps slipping but not rounded

Have you tried the next sized down socket?  (Not intended to be sarcastic).

[ad_car_08]

Are you getting purchase on the bolt head, or is it rounded?

it keeps slipping but not rounded

Have you tried the next sized down socket?  (Not intended to be sarcastic).

yeah, i tried that, but the socket just wouldn't go over the nut and obviously wouldn't grip.

my confidence has grown a little knowing that i cant harm the engine by drilling the bolt (im a wetter, i know!) so i'll break out a 6mm bit on it

[ad_car_08]

ok...
so i got this far, and at a loss what to do.



do i drill all the way through or just take the head off with a drill bit or what?

should i be concerned about the metal filings flying everywhere too? its not gonna get sucked in somewhere when i start the engine is it?? I have been hoovering intermitantly but i can still see the odd spots in places

[markiii]

if it were me drilling is your last resort as once the manifold is off you now have teh fun of remving whats left of teh bolt from teh hole before you can replace teh heatshield

and you can't get a drill to teh 2 bolts at teh back anyway?


get a set of irwin extrators which will bite into teh nut

if that still doesn't work and/or you decide to drill just drill teh head off, leave as much of teh bolt as possible to allow you to get it out later, in this case a drill just bigger than M8 will seperate teh head from teh bolt

[StuM]

OK, checked markiii's How To on painting the heat shield and this is his picture of manifold with heat shield removed:



The lugs are actually on the manifold rather than the engine - so be careful not to drill through that   s:wink: :wink: s:wink:  

What you are aiming for is to drill out the whole bolt [edit] in the end, though as markiii says lopping the top off is enough to get the heat shield off[/edit].  
I think Ekona was suggesting leaving the heat shield off altogether.  If you're doing that then could could always just dremel off the head.

[markiii]

there is no way you are going to drill out teh whole bolt with a hand drill whuilst it's on teh car, without mullering teh threads

just take teh head off until it's off the car

[StuM]

there is no way you are going to drill out the whole bolt with a hand drill whuilst it's on the car, without mullering the threads

I did this on an old motorbike of mine - once enough of the metal came out of the 'core' of the bolt, the outside that remained fell apart and dropped out with a bit of poking around - and the threads were intact.  

That said, that particular bolt wasn't as rusted up as this one seems to be.

Stu

[Anonymous]

You look to have drilled some distance into the head. Keep going for a bit and regularly twist it with whatever will fit and grip (spanner, socket - bashed on with a hammer, mole grips, stillsons, bolt removing tool) etc. Eventually, the head of the bolt will twist off et voila! Welcome to the reality of car maintenance   s:D s:D  It went in, so it WILL come out.

[ad_car_08]

Right, update time!...

I've drilled the head off the left bolt (the worse one) and continue to feed the right bolt with the penetrating fluid, resigned to that fact i'm not gonna get this done today!

Now to add insult to injury, I've taken a look at the nxt two bolts....not good news....



I'm feeling like THE most unlucky person when its coming to these precats!!   s:( s:(    that left one is literally rusted round!!

will the irvine kit tackle that then?? sounds like im gonna have to buy MORE tools!!  s:( s:(

[StuM]

will the irvine kit tackle that then?? sounds like I'm gonna have to buy MORE tools!!  s:( s:(

Here's the kit

I'm embarking on pre-cat gutting tomorrow, so will probably share your frustration!

Stu

[ad_car_08]

that makes no sense....irwin only do 10mm, 11mm and 13mm sockets......I NEED A BLUMMIN 12mm!!!!!!




.......i gotta laugh, i'd cry otherwise  s:lol: :lol: s:lol:

[markiii]

they do an imperial size that fits

if it's a little smaller than you need just hammer it on, works better that way anyway

[Anonymous]

I know this is sooo easy to say, but my first step would be with a wire brush, preferably with an electric drill, but failing this by hand. This, because it's actually quite hard to see what is under the rust.
Then, loads of PlusGas and patience.
Then, you need a tool which really fits the bolt properly (am I allowed to say that ?).
If this doesn't work, then mole grips, stillsons etc.
If you can photo it like that then you must be able to get some sort of tool in there (probably not allowed to say that either   s:D s:D  ).