TTE Supercharged 2zz swap with pics

[Star_69]

Hey peeps,

Excuse the really long post but thought I would share with you whats going on with my roadster at the mo...

My 1zz seized on me recently and was on the lookout for a 2zz to replace it. I happened to find an '06 Corolla Compressor engine with 10k miles on it with matching gearbox in a breakers for a bargain price. The Corolla Compressor is a limited edition with only 250 models produced. Engine-wise its a 2zz T sport with the TTE supercharger installed from factory giving a claimed 215bhp figure. Nice   s:D s:D  

I approached Rogue Motorsport to do the install as they have done many conversions (2zz's being one of the many engine swaps they've done!)and after seeing some of their work, I knew it would be in the right place. I spoke to Matt who said he'd need to see the engine first as the general consensus is the firewall needs to be cut to get the supercharger to fit. I bought the engine and got it delivered straight to them as it was such a steal and was prepared to pay for additional custom work which would be outside of the package they offer for regular 2zz swaps. I was also excited as nobody has done the swap yet (due to only 250 engines made).

I'm pleased to say it did fit without cutting the firewall and I still have my storage bins. It wasnt a straight swap. The chassis was 'massaged' to make room for the blower. The mounts were customised and engine dropped slightly due to clearance by the hood, dipstick needed to be relocated (due to it being the 'wrong way' round in the roadster) and another couple of points. I have to say, I'm very impressed with Matts work. As you can see from the pics, it was a tight fit









I asked to keep the LSD from my old 6 speed box which was swapped over, although keeping my old box as Matt suggested would have been cheaper in respect of labour, I did want the closer ratios and stronger clutch (and it was 27k miles newer).

The wiring was spliced to my 1zz loom. The 2zz manifold was customised to make it more efficient and precats were removed. The factory ECU was not available as that had been cut out of the car (leaving just severed cable ends to work with), so I had to go the aftermarket route and picked up an Apexi PowerFC from Japan. On the Corolla the second cam changeover point is lowered from the standard 6200rpm to 4800rpm to smooth out the power delivery. This was reflected on the PowerFC.

The only problem left was how to control the supercharger. I contacted TTE for info and they advised me the supercharger engages on the following parameters stays engaged within the whole rev. range:

1. Coolant temperature > 28°C
2. Vehicle speed > 6 Km/H
3. Throttle blade angle > 10°

Unfortunately, the PowerFC is not suited for this and it would mean the blower is either boosting or not. I needed a seperate control box to engage/disengage. Apparently its all managed by the stock ECU but I didn't have that. Lyndon the mapping expert at Rogue made (Yes, MADE!) me a control unit for it which works in conjunction with the PowerFC which was entirely bespoke. Again, I'm really impressed. Took an engine that wouldn't fit then they made electronics which couldn't be bought.

I went up there Friday to get it mapped and bring her home. It was a road map so Lyndon was in the passenger seat with a lappy and I had to drive around while he was constantly correcting figures on his screen with his det cans on. Knock was terrible. According to TTE the boost pressure starts from slightly below 0,3 bar, gets it´s peak of approx 0,56 bar at around 5500 revs and decreases down to approx 0,38 bar. There were serious det issues with the low cam on the stock map. He said thats because of the high compression of the engine with the FI and he had to retard the ignition so much for the lower cam he said it was almost hardly worth it   s:( s:(     3 laptop batteries later we were getting somewhere and it was successfully mapped. He said it would definitely benefit from a dyno session where he could max torque over the whole range, but I'd have to arrange at a later point, so I'm guessing it was conservatively mapped considering how all over the place it was when we first started (and we were running out of day)

The drive home was nice though. It didn't feel amazingly fast at first as the power delivery is very linear. The mph figure was frightening though when you look away from the rpm guage, but it didnt feel that fast. No lag etc. Quite odd. At first I was a bit disappointed in the drivers seat to be honest, but my mate Lee who came with me who was the passenger said it was 'biblical'. The pick up is mental. 3rd gear at 30mph to 85mph is so much fun. Its accelerates as quick as you can say the numbers. 5th gear on the motorway is ridiculous for overtaking. I ran out of bottle way before it ran out of steam, but it doesnt 'feel' that fast if you know what I mean?

All in all, I'm very pleased with the install (except for the fuel economy!!). Considering I was facing a rebuild on the 1zz, the 2zz was a no brainer and worth every penny. I cannot recommend the service and workmanship of Rogue Motorsport enough.

Whats next:

DYNO MAP!!

Its still using the standard airbox but I would like an induction kit for the noise aspect, just for the whine of the blower! A company called Impossible Performance near me makes custom induction kit piping so will probably get a short custom pipe made to reach behind the battery to the air intake, like the PPE kit and put on a Blitz SUS induction kit and I'll try and fab a heat shield myself. Hopefully it will be cold enough as I'm getting serious heat issues at the mo according to the FC Commander   s:flame: :flame: s:flame:    s:flame: :flame: s:flame:  

Theres no room for an intercooler or chargecooler so was thinking of Aquamist water injection with a water and meth mixture combo. I've read a bit about it and I'm hoping it will reduce induction temps, help cool the supercharger, stop any det and allow the timing to be advanced on the lower cam to make the most of the available boost, and possibly increase overall performance. If its possible and worth it I'll start saving my pennies and get it properly dyno mapped at the same time...

[Anonymous]

And the question on everybody's lips   s:D s:D  


HOW MUCH !!!!

[markiii]

love to see this in tehflesh

2 questions though

1. you said precats were removed, your sure, I've never seen a Celica manifold that had them in teh first place?
2. any more info on teh chassis massaging? I assume thats so the belt shown in one of your pics will clear?
3. I asume that when you said teh compressor clears teh firewall this is only because teh engine was mounted somewhat lower than stock?

[loadswine]

That looks a nice tidy install, and good on you for going for this, its good to see another option for Roadsters in the UK.
Lyndon is indeed a clever chap, glad to hear he got it mapped up for you.

I too am curious as to how much it cost. Stiil you have a pretty unique and obviously very quick car at the end of it, so Nice One.  s:) s:)

[Tem]

Interesting, I always thought it wouldn't fit. The TTE SC kit for the 2ZZ is relatively cheap, so that would be a nice option for anyone with a 2ZZ.  s8) s8)


We thought about triggering the SC with just throttle input with PFC. Are you SURESURE about the 6kmh limit though? Cause it sure seems to work at 0kmh too. Maybe they changed it during the production then?



Oh and I'm very interested in seeing what it makes on a dyno. We dynoed one with "only" 202hp over here. Kinda disappointing to get only 10hp from the kit, though it does give plenty of torque on lower revs.

[Star_69]

And the question on everybody's lips   s:D s:D  
HOW MUCH !!!!

Well, it was comparable in cost to a TTE turbo fitted. If I had used the stock ECU and kept the facelift 6 speed roadster box it would have been much cheaper, but I wanted it done 'properly'. Since my engine was completely screwed in the first place it was a no brainer! Give Patrick at Rogue a call if you are interested and he'll be able to quote you on an individual basis.

1. you said precats were removed, your sure, I've never seen a Celica manifold that had them in the first place?
2. any more info on the chassis massaging? I assume thats so the belt shown in one of your pics will clear?
3. I asume that when you said the compressor clears the firewall this is only because the engine was mounted somewhat lower than stock?

I'm probably wrong but I assumed it was precats. Matt mentioned a three letter acronym that was for emissions and not needed and can be removed for about a 6bhp gain. Its a modified 2zz manifold, although I'm using the stock roadster exhaust but the note sounds nice and meaty now. I'm probably going to keep it too as I prefer induction noise to exhaust drone. When I mean massaging, it was pushing back the firewall to make room for the blower. The bins still fit but more room was made. It was dropped slightly too and the metal under the roof was modified to make room for that bit of metal that says 'Compressor'



Heres a pic of the engine in the Corolla bay and hopefully it'll make sense, although as you can see from my photo, theres f' all room to play with   s:crazyeyes: :crazyeyes: s:crazyeyes:  

That looks a nice tidy install, and good on you for going for this, its good to see another option for Roadsters in the UK.

Thanks Nige! I'm very pleased with it. Unfortunately, I have a feeling its just the start of a very big whole in my wallet as I've got the bug now   s:) s:)  

We thought about triggering the SC with just throttle input with PFC. Are you SURESURE about the 6kmh limit though? Cause it sure seems to work at 0kmh too. Maybe they changed it during the production then?

Oh and I'm very interested in seeing what it makes on a dyno. We dynoed one with "only" 202hp over here. Kinda disappointing to get only 10hp from the kit, though it does give plenty of torque on lower revs.

Yeah, we checked with TTE. I emailed the guy who designed the kit and Matt checked with someone else at TTE just to be sure. It does spin at 0kmh but you can actually hear the faint click as the charger clutch engages the blower at the set critera. Its obvious in the roadster if you are listening for it as I'm sitting right on top of it, perhaps less so in the Corolla. I'd also be interested to see what its getting on a dyno. Although its great at the moment, I'm sure theres more to be had. Silverstone Performance acutally use the TTE supercharger on an Elise for their 'SP-K' package. Using an emange and an intercooler their first one was dyno'd at 259bhp. I know with superchargers you get what youre given boost wise, but I hope there is scope for more than the stock 215 figure on the Power FC with a proper dyno tune (and possibly water/meth injection if its worth it)

[Tem]

I'd also be interested to see what its getting on a dyno. Although its great at the moment, I'm sure theres more to be had. Silverstone Performance acutally use the TTE supercharger on an Elise for their 'SP-K' package. Using an emange and an intercooler their first one was dyno'd at 259bhp. I know with superchargers you get what youre given boost wise, but I hope there is scope for more than the stock 215 figure on the Power FC with a proper dyno tune (and possibly water/meth injection if its worth it)

I'm sure you can get more out of it. It kinda feels like it's pulling the advance too much, to make it fail safe even for the ignorant driver with poor fuel. Would be nice to see it around the 250hp.  s8) s8)

[Rogue]

I'm probably wrong but I assumed it was precats. Matt mentioned a three letter acronym that was for emissions and not needed and can be removed for about a 6bhp gain.

I'm pretty sure it was the EGR (exhaust gas recirculation) system that was removed. The is purely for emissions control.

Having driven this car my feelings entirely echoed Brad's - initially it didn't feel that fast. But - and it's a fairly big but - it is fast. Because the power delivery is so linear you're simply not aware that your accellerating so hard. There's no indication that the engine's even breaking a sweat but suddenly the car in the distance is filling your windscreen and the speedo needle has swept around much quicker than you expected. I genuinely though I was doing around 50mph on a private stretch of A road to discover that I was actually doing over 80mph! And that was with normal driving.

With Brad's permission (I think   s:wink: :wink: s:wink:  ) I started to push the car a bit harder, using the full rev range and deliberately trying to extract some speed. Again, the chassis and engine seemed so competent together that the rate of accellaration was deceptive but when Brad hunkered down and braced himself I knew we were travelling! The 2ZZ engine is designed to be revved to get the most out of it but for some reason with the supercharger it no longer sounds like it's screaming at 8,000+rpm. I was really impressed with it and reckon it would be a bit of a weapon out on the track.

I also think that the water injection idea is a very good one, and after talking it through with Lyndon we could probably modify the control box for your supercharger to control the WI as well.

Patrick

[uktotty]

I never read these threads as they tend to go over my head but this is a truly interesting project, would love to see the lump installed and get some dyno readings.
So is anyone gonna answer the "how much" question?

[Anonymous]

Was it an arm and / or a leg ??   s:D s:D

[Rogue]

So is anyone gonna answer the "how much" question?

Well, a straighforward 2ZZ swap works out at £1,400 - there's more custom work involved in mounting the supercharged engine so it's going to work out more expensive. Every job is different with gearbox, fuelling and engine management options potentially affecting both sides of the balance sheet. Work on a figure of about £3,000 and there are choices that you can make that will increase or decrease that amount accordingly.

All of the above assumes you supply the engine / gearbox.

Patrick

[Star_69]

With Brad's permission (I think   s:wink: :wink: s:wink:  ) I started to push the car a bit harder, using the full rev range and deliberately trying to extract some speed. Again, the chassis and engine seemed so competent together that the rate of accellaration was deceptive but when Brad hunkered down and braced himself I knew we were travelling!

Don't get me wrong. Its the fastest car I've driven. It does fly, no question about that, but when you get in your car as a passenger and hand your keys over to a racing driver, then tell him its really potent over 5k you're going to grab anything you can find and hold on   s:lol: :lol: s:lol:    s:lol: :lol: s:lol:

[aaronjb]

That looks like an impressive project - kudos to you to going for it and Rogue for making it work  s:) s:)  Now get us dyno plots, darnit!  s:lol: :lol: s:lol:

BTW what intake temps are you seeing, peak?

you're going to grab anything you can find and hold on   s:lol: :lol: s:lol:    s:lol: :lol: s:lol:

Did Patrick mind that?   s:shock: :shock: s:shock:    s:lol: :lol: s:lol:

[Star_69]

Cheers Aaron! Temps rise really quickly. Normal 'economical' driving it hits the high 40's very quickly and says there. After a few overtakes and clear b-road stretches using lift for a short period of time hits high 50s while moving and doesnt seem to cool. Stopping at lights and traffic it warms up quickly. I'm assuming these are pretty high temps or am I being a girl? I had hoped to get an induction kit in there behind the battery but think that could be a bad move because of the heat coming off the charger. At the mo the air box is disconnected from the cold air feed to be less restrictive but I'm going to reconnect it once I get the piping back to see how much cooler it will be. If its considerably cooler a markiii pipe using the original box would probably be the coolest and less restrictive option, or possibly a Corolla Tsport Pipercross Viper with its cold air feed and heatshield, although I dont know how long the feed is or if its bendy (so I can place it where I like). Shame.. I wanted it to sound like this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WIasUetsd5I

Star_69 wrote:you're going to grab anything you can find and hold on  s:lol: :lol: s:lol:   s:lol: :lol: s:lol:

Did Patrick mind that?  s:shock: :shock: s:shock:   s:lol: :lol: s:lol:

I wasn't THAT scared, I save that trick as a very last resort. Guaranteed to activate the ABS   s:D s:D    s:lol: :lol: s:lol:

[aaronjb]

40-50 isn't too bad, really.

Un-chargecooled I was seeing cruising temps of ~50C and peak under WOT of 65-70C with the turbo.  With the chargecooler in place that's now cruising of 20-30C and WOT rises to 40-45C, dropping back to about 35C after a period of cruising, so not that dissimilar to what you're seeing as the SC is only imparting heat through compression rather than because it's also attached directly to a searing hot exhaust  s:) s:)

[heathstimpson]

A very impressive project indeed  s8) s8)  The amount of different uprate combinations is for ever increasing  s:? :? s:?

[kanujunkie]

Nice work  s8) s8)  , really like that and looks like a nice quality install, be interested to see the dyno session results

Matt mentioned a three letter acronym that was for emissions and not needed and can be removed for about a 6bhp gain.

TWC - Three Way Converter

[Chris]

Sounds impressive, I'll keep an eye out for this beast around town now then!   s:) s:)

[Ilogik]

Just sent someone over your way

 m http://spyderchat.com/forums/showthread ... post706904 m

How you getting on with the car bud not seen you on here in yonks?