Performance modifications for 2004 n/a MK3 Race Car

[markiii]

since uk cars had LSD as standard on all years I reckon they will have to allow them

[silversprint]

since uk cars had LSD as standard on all years I reckon they will have to allow them

Is the MKIII competing against the MKII or does it have its own class?

Did the early 2000-2002 MKIII with the manual 5-speed have LSD in the UK? Japan and US didn't.  s:( s:(

[markiii]

don;t know how many times I need to say this  :-) :-) :-)

ALL roadsters since launch in teh UK and Europe got LSD as standard

[silversprint]

don;t know how many times I need to say this  :-) :-) :-)

ALL roadsters since launch in the UK and Europe got LSD as standard

I can already hear the complaining from the MK2 guys. The toyota helical LSD is pretty good too as long as you don't lift a wheel.

[Rowland]

Yep the 2009 regulations for the mk3 have been written and will be released in the next few weeks I'm told.
I've not seen them as yet but would doubt fitting of an oil cooler to be permitted for mk1,mk2 or mk3.
Pre cats would surely have to be legiable to remove - I for one aren't willing to risk my 2004 low mileage engine going bang due to sucked in pre cats!

With the newly designed cage the mk3 race cars will still retain the folding roof if desired (although non operational) or be able to race roofless or with the hardtop fitted.
LSD's are not permitted in the mk1 or mk2 due to the fact they were a very expensive optional extra.
However as Mark correctly points out all UK Roadsters have an LSD fitted so therefore the mk3 will be permitted to run with an LSD.

With regards to Carbotech pads I've been using these for several years and in my experiance the XP8 actually out performs the XP10.
It would be nice to have an ABS 'ON' and an ABS 'OFF' dashboard mounted switch as some have done with the mk2. Something to give some thought to.

Stock wheel size only and that doesn't include 16" rears so I'll have to lose my current wheels in favour of some pre 03 wheels or even better some lightweight 15" Rays rims.

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[Rowland]

I can already hear the complaining from the MK2 guys. The toyota helical LSD is pretty good too as long as you don't lift a wheel.

You've hit the nail on the head there.
When I competed in my first ever race in 2007 I used a fresh mk2 hire car from Rogue, a 1994 Glimited Anniversary Edition n/a.
Being the first to drive this particular car I surprised even myself and qualified 2nd.
During the race I got into first place briefly, finished 2nd/3rd  and broke the lap record by over a second.
What nobody knew was the car was fitted with a LSD and it was that that made the difference through the chicane and tighter turns.

Needless to say it was removed by the next race but was easily worth over a second+ per lap...

Despite the mk3 having less power than the mk2, I still believe over a lap with the LSD and the mk3 simply being a better design than the mk2 it should be a pretty close run thing!


  s:shock: :shock: s:shock:

[Ilogik]

I can already hear the complaining from the MK2 guys. The toyota helical LSD is pretty good too as long as you don't lift a wheel.

You've hit the nail on the head there.
When I competed in my first ever race in 2007 I used a fresh mk2 hire car from Rogue, a 1994 Glimited Anniversary Edition n/a.
Being the first to drive this particular car I surprised even myself and qualified 2nd.
During the race I got into first place briefly, finished 2nd/3rd  and broke the lap record by over a second.
What nobody knew was the car was fitted with a LSD and it was that that made the difference through the chicane and tighter turns.

Needless to say it was removed by the next race but was easily worth over a second+ per lap...

Despite the mk3 having less power than the mk2, I still believe over a lap with the LSD and the mk3 simply being a better design than the mk2 it should be a pretty close run thing!


  s:shock: :shock: s:shock:

Just found some tech specs on the exhaust I told you about mate, dunno how light it is compared others but here is the spec.

 m http://www.fortyone.co.nz/parts/show/47 ... haust.html m

The Kakimoto GT1 systems are for high performance cars who want weight saving benefits and high power gains. Hybrid systems feature a SUS304 stainless steel pipe coupled to a Titanium rear muffler using light weight, hollowed hangers. Full Ti systems are designed with Titanium throughout, while the GT1 full stainless uses SUS304 stainless steel right the way through.

Both the Turbo and NA version are rated at 98db.

The full TI GT1 system weighs in at 4.44kg while the Stainless system weighs in at 7.36kg. The Hybrid weighs in at 6.9kg

[Rowland]

Just found some tech specs on the exhaust I told you about mate, dunno how light it is compared others but here is the spec.

 m http://www.fortyone.co.nz/parts/show/47 ... haust.html m

The Kakimoto GT1 systems are for high performance cars who want weight saving benefits and high power gains. Hybrid systems feature a SUS304 stainless steel pipe coupled to a Titanium rear muffler using light weight, hollowed hangers. Full Ti systems are designed with Titanium throughout, while the GT1 full stainless uses SUS304 stainless steel right the way through.

Both the Turbo and NA version are rated at 98db.

The full TI GT1 system weighs in at 4.44kg while the Stainless system weighs in at 7.36kg. The Hybrid weighs in at 6.9kg

Cheers buddy!

The more I think about it shedding weight at the rear in particular sounds logical.
My guess is that the T1 GT1 system you have is pretty rare and a damn expensive system to buy new.
Yes it's ideal and unless you're gonna' sell me yours (which I *know* you ain't) I'm gonna pay a pretty penny to fit one to the back of my mk3!

[ChrisGB]

Just found some tech specs on the exhaust I told you about mate, dunno how light it is compared others but here is the spec.

 m http://www.fortyone.co.nz/parts/show/47 ... haust.html m

The Kakimoto GT1 systems are for high performance cars who want weight saving benefits and high power gains. Hybrid systems feature a SUS304 stainless steel pipe coupled to a Titanium rear muffler using light weight, hollowed hangers. Full Ti systems are designed with Titanium throughout, while the GT1 full stainless uses SUS304 stainless steel right the way through.

Both the Turbo and NA version are rated at 98db.

The full TI GT1 system weighs in at 4.44kg while the Stainless system weighs in at 7.36kg. The Hybrid weighs in at 6.9kg

Cheers buddy!

The more I think about it shedding weight at the rear in particular sounds logical.
My guess is that the T1 GT1 system you have is pretty rare and a damn expensive system to buy new.
Yes it's ideal and unless you're gonna' sell me yours (which I *know* you ain't) I'm gonna pay a pretty penny to fit one to the back of my mk3!

You could always get something custom fabricated if weight saving is your goal. Most aftermarket systems are at least partially concerned with sound level. Have something fabricated and you can spec 1.2mm walled tube which is much lighter than the 1.6 or 2mm that some systems have. Also, you can get 2" bore carbon fibre silencers from a company called PJ Engineering. Again, weight saved. You do definitely feel an improvement in handling with weight off behind the bumper.

Chris

[roger]

Yep the 2009 regulations for the mk3 have been written and will be released in the next few weeks I'm told.
Pre cats would surely have to be legiable to remove - I for one aren't willing to risk my 2004 low mileage engine going bang due to sucked in pre cats!

However as Mark correctly points out all UK Roadsters have an LSD fitted so therefore the mk3 will be permitted to run with an LSD.

Stock wheel size only and that doesn't include 16" rears

I certainly hope the regulation draweruppers know their MkIII - or they could land themselves in trouble, Like why are 16" not stock? Though having said that, you would probably be better off with 15".

BTW the pre-cats in post 03s as you are probably aware are quite a bit stronger (so we are told) so not such a risk as they would be with pre-03.

[Rowland]

I certainly hope the regulation draweruppers know their MkIII - or they could land themselves in trouble, Like why are 16" not stock? Though having said that, you would probably be better off with 15".

For all classes the regulations are drawn up by Patrick head honcho of Rogue Motorsport , so it goes without saying he knows his onions.
The regulations are then passed on to the 750MC/MSA for approval before being released to the masses.
With regards to the exclusion of 16" rear wheels, I can only imagine this is simply to reduce tyre costs which are already heavily subsidised to participants in the MR2 Championship.

It doesn't bother me, I can sell on my diamond turned 03+ spec wheels and buy some 00-03 spec wheels and have them refurbished in black or something.
Smaller rolling radius = greater acceleration...perhaps!?

  s:D s:D

[silversprint]

If I'm reading the 2008 rules correctly they did allow an oil cooler to be fitted on an MKI or MKII as long as it remained in the engine compartment. I would think this will apply to the MKIII.

I actually believe the 15inch wheels are better because fenders can not be altered. So you would have to run the same width tire regardless of if you run a 15 or 16 inch wheel. They max tire in 16s that will fit the rear fenders is 225/45/16 with the stock spec wheels.

However in 15s the R888 is available in 224/45/15. Same grip, better acceleration.

Later year I purchased a used Amuse R1 titanium exhaust on Yahoo Japan. It weighed 2.5kg.

[markiii]

they are on control tyres

[silversprint]

The toyo R888 is the designated tire.

Not sure if they mandate a particular size.

[Rowland]

The toyo R888 is the designated tire.

Not sure if they mandate a particular size.

Correct.
Sizes are are factory diameter, width & profile for all classes with no exceptions.

  s:D s:D

[silversprint]

The R888 doesn't come in the 185/15 OEm front tire size. The narrowest r888 15s is 195. If they mandate a 195 front and a 205 rear then that reduces the stagger by half. It would be nice if they used the 215s for the rear with 195 front.

You can't really build the suspension unless you know the tire size.

[Ilogik]

Quick question, how much does a race season usually cost? can you do random races? and lastly  how much experiance do you need, would love to get into it eventually. Which places do license

[Rowland]

Quick question, how much does a race season usually cost? can you do random races? and lastly  how much experiance do you need, would love to get into it eventually. Which places do license

Oh god I hate adding it all up - I inevitably feel a bit sick afterwards.

Last season breakdown approx.

mk2 race car £10,000 to build
Routine maintenance £600
Tyres 2 sets £600
Fuel £1000
Trailer Hire, transportation costs etc £1000

Club Membership £45
Race License renewal/upgrade £70
Race Entry Fees £2700
Testing (twice only) £400


The initial element of the cost is actually gaining a license £200-£400, obtaining a medical £80, buying your race wear minimum £600+ either hiring a car, buying a used race car or prepping your own £0000 !!
Costs are then relatively marginal.
Races in a the MR2 Championship vary in cost typically between £200-£300 which is for two races, 10 minutes plus a lap and also a qualifying session.
The only experience you need is basic car control skills which, this being a car enthusiasts club anyone would be more than capable.
An ARDS test is a theory/practical exam in order to prove yourself competent in holding a basic National 'B' license.
Typically a one day course of which most will pass, however some do fail.

I took my ARDS at Silverstone which talking amongst others in racing circles is more involved, and several did fail that day.
Other circuits are available, apparently at Rockingham you only need to turn up and present four tokens from a Kelloggs Corn Flakes box and hey-ho, license passed!!


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[Ilogik]

christ that is pretty pricey then.

[Anonymous]

Hi

This will be interesting to see for 2009. I was going to prep my Roadster for 2008 and enter on an invitation basis (with my other half driving) but ended up doing this instead:



A note of caution if you've not yet seen the 2009 Blue Book, 2009 MSA regs require post 2000 production based race cars to run with a cat, just in case you were thinking about a CRP. We took our cat off the racer and sold it last year, I've now got to put a new one back on!

Good luck, John

[Rowland]

Hi

This will be interestesting to see for 2009. I was going to prep my Roadster for 2008 and enter on an invitation basis (with my other half driving)

A note of caution if you've not yet seen the 2009 Blue Book, 2009 MSA regs require post 2000 production based race cars to run with a cat, just in case you were thinking about a CRP. We took our cat off the racer and sold it last year, I've now got to put a new one back on!

Good luck, John

Hi John,

A good friend of mine races Elise's - sounds fantastic from the stories I've heard.
An interesting point you make about the 2009 ruling on catalytic convertors, I wasn't in any way aware of that.
I'm guessing this is in some way an effort by the MSA to show willing that their making motor racing slightly more 'green'

My plan was to fit a CRP in the same way the mk1's and mk2's do - Looks like I won't be now...

Cheers mate

Rowland

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[aluk49]

Hi Rowland

I was told that if Toyo R888's are run in the opposite direction on a dry track (definitely not in the wet!), that they act more like slick tyres and give more grip!  Have you heard of this tale, or is it a load of bull?  Would be interesting to know.

Al

[Rowland]

Hi Rowland

I was told that if Toyo R888's are run in the opposite direction on a dry track (definitely not in the wet!), that they act more like slick tyres and give more grip!  Have you heard of this tale, or is it a load of bull?  Would be interesting to know.

Al

Hi Al, sorry for the delay in replying to you.

I did some testing of this theory at Brands Hatch & Cadwell Park earlier in the year (in the dry obviously) and ran the R888's forwards and then backwards.
With regards to lap times there was no difference what so ever.
However there is a definite advantage in evening out tyre wear by doing this.

On one instance it did start to spit with rain upon which I came in pronto before me and the tyre wall had an untimely meeting!

Rowland

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[Anonymous]

Lose the weight - go on a diet !    s:lol: :lol: s:lol:  

A lad I used to work with raced karts and he spent all his time on one diet or another.  Swore by diuretics prior to racing but I recon that is a bit dodgy.

[kentsmudger]

...  Swore by diuretics prior to racing but I recon that is a bit dodgy.

Could be a problem if you are caught short...