2ZZ here i come

Anonymous · February 2, 2004, 16:44

IMO just converto to manual and be done with it. With the SMT you are opening a whole new can of worms.

The car may not even start if the SMT cannot comunicate with the engine ECU to signal that the clutch off.

Also the Celica ECU for the manual does not have any SMT programming and the ECU for the celica sportshift whcih is a 4 speed will not work. So it will basically not work if you do not sort out the electronics which is a big problem IMO.

One other thing. With the 2ZZ and the stock cams you will have to live with the power spike. There is no way to take the spike out unless you reduce power at the top end a lot. Not even with the Power FC.

The hi cams stop making power below 6000rpm. Toyota made the changeover absolutely perfect. The cams are not coupled well unfortunately.

There seem to be a lot of guys doing the 2ZZ swap now in the US. I predict the inexperienced might seriously hurt themselves with this engine. The car becomes much faster with a few bolt ons and if it is not set up well suspension wise, once you hit the cam change mid corner you could be in serious trouble especially on non perfect roads.

But hey it is much faster s:twisted: :twisted: s:twisted:

Jap GT300 · February 2, 2004, 16:58

A full on manual conversion it is then. If I get a rolling manual chassiss soon I may use that instead but at present I think I will go for full manual conversion.

The gearbox I have been offered is a 2 ZZ, 4 speed manual for £150. Will it be of any use. I will have 2 be on the look out for the other parts.

Will I need the 2' or the Celica shifter cage and cables? Also will it matter if I get the celica clutch pedal and ancillaries?

Thanks Adam

ps Mark how big is your garage s:wink: :wink: s:wink:

Tem · February 2, 2004, 19:21

Quote from: "Jap GT300"4 speed manual

Huh? s:? :? s:?

markiii · February 2, 2004, 19:27

Adam,

I.m not sure how to read that 4 speed statement.

In teh Uk I though all Celicas were 6 speed.

regardless manual 5 or 6 speed should work.

The cage I think will fit, the cables you'll need to get from teh roadster as the celica doesn't use cables at all let alone the right length.

clutch pedal? I'd e surprised b ut if it has a part number we can check easily enough.

Cin,

Curious ref your comment about the change point you say toyota got it right but the cams aren't coupled well?

can you clarify?

Anonymous · February 2, 2004, 23:50

Adam.

Just get a 6speed. Get the MR2 cables and clutch and shifter cage(the celica shifter cage should be the same but mounted the other way IIRC) and get a 6 speed MR2 shifter shaft(goes in the trann) or machine one out of the celica one.

You will probably also need the switch that is used to disable the starter if the clutch pedal is not depressed.

Re: The cams. The cam are perfectly timed from Toyota already. The Switch point is the best it can be. If you put it any lower even if you tune the VVT you have a huge power drop. Unfortunatley the torque curves for the hi and low cams cut at about 6200rpm so 6000rpm is about perfect for the changeover. Anylower and you loose power.

Monkeywrenchracing had a dyno run pic with the low cam only and the hi cam only and you could see where they meet. It is on their site.

The only way to take out the spike is by changing cams and using a more agressive low cam but unfortunately there are no cams available yet.

markiii · February 3, 2004, 00:14

thanks CIN

Adam I'd just get the TRD short shifter if you need to buy the cage assembly anyway.

Jap GT300 · February 3, 2004, 07:12

Quote2 ZZ, 4 speed manual for £150

Sorry, I meant auto

Quote from: "cin"You will probably also need the switch that is used to disable the starter if the clutch pedal is not depressed.

Why will I need this?

Quoteget a 6 speed MR2 shifter shaft(goes in the trann) or machine one out of the celica one.

Which part are you referring to as the shifter shaft?

Thanks Cin

Anonymous · February 3, 2004, 20:29

The switch you need it because the ECU needs confirmation that the clutch is depressed before you can start the car. On my JSPEC if you do not press the clutch pedal you cannot start the car. It should be just a switch. I suggest you go to a junk yard and just take the whole pedal assembly. s;)

s;)

The shifter shaft is a shaft inside the tranny. It moves the forks inside and the shift linkages attach to it. You need to either fab one or get one from an MR-S 6speed because the Celica shaft comes out from the front and you need it to come out the rear now. You also need the housing cap where the shaft goes in since the celica one has no hole in it for the saft. On the other side where the shaft used to go out you just put a plug. It Will look just like the stock 5 speed from the outside plug included.

You also need to buy the shift linkages to make it work since the celica linkages are not good.

So you need.

Clutch pedal with switch
Shifter cables and linkages(these go on the tranny)
Shifter cage
Gearbox shifter shaft from a 6MT MR-S or custom celica shiftershaft
Gearbox housing shifter shaft plug that goes at the rear from a 5MT or 6MT MR-S
Plug for the front of the shiftershaft housing

That is all I think.

You can go to spyderchat in the library section for the whole 6 speed conversion written by littlerocket s:)

s:)

Anonymous · February 3, 2004, 20:30

Quote from: "markiii"thanks CIN

Adam I'd just get the TRD short shifter if you need to buy the cage assembly anyway.

No problem Mark. Always glad to help s:)

s:)

markiii · February 3, 2004, 20:47

ref this switch?

Since he has the 2zz ecu will he still need it?

Adam, CINS answer is only valid if teh engine you have sourced is jspec? if it's uk you won't need the switch as clutch down isn't a requirement.

Jap GT300 · February 4, 2004, 10:08

Cin, your advice has been invaluable.

The 2zz sourced is a J-Spec so I will need the switch. I will order as many of the parts as I can today.

Thanks Adam

aaronjb · February 4, 2004, 10:14

Good luck with the conversion Adam - will be interesting to see what it goes like when it's done for sure s:)

s:)

BTW - who are you planning on getting to insure it? Or are you an old bugger for whom insurance isn't a problem s:D

s:D Just wondering.. being well and truly beaten by a Vauxhall Vectra 2.5v6 this morning has left me (again) wanting more power s;)

s;) s:)

s:)

Slacey · February 4, 2004, 10:17

Quote from: "aaronjb"BTW - who are you planning on getting to insure it? Or are you an old bugger for whom insurance isn't a problem s:D s:D

Old bugger he ain't (whippersnapper!), and I expect his trade insurance will cover it.

aaronjb · February 4, 2004, 10:20

Ahhh.. that would certainly make insuring it nice and easy yeah..

D'oh s:)

s:) Ah well - there go my plans (you've seen my insurance quotes, and my only performance mod is the TTE exhaust!) s:)

s:)

Jap GT300 · February 4, 2004, 11:50

I'm only 22. s8)

s8)

QuoteHi Adam
Just to let you know that we have located a 6spd manual gearbox for
2ZZGE which is complete at £350 we can also get ECU and wiring loom for
further £300 all with warranty etc - If you are interested please give
me a call

Looks like I didn't get the ECU with the engine s:(

s:( I know the 1zz 6speed would be ideal but this will be worth £350 don't you think? I will ask if they can chuck in the clutch pedal etc..

aaronjb · February 4, 2004, 11:57

Quote from: "Jap GT300"I'm only 22. s8) s8)

Daaaamnnnn youuuu.... s:lol: :lol: s:lol: 22 and a 2zz powered '2.. Nice.. Well - if it all works (fingers crossed!). I won't call you lucky though, given how your last engine expired s:D

s:D

Quote from: "Jap GT300"Looks like I didn't get the ECU with the engine s:( s:( I know the 1zz 6speed would be ideal but this will be worth £350 don't you think? I will ask if they can chuck in the clutch pedal etc..

If they throw everything in with the gearbox, I'd hazard a guess that it's not that bad a price really.. But then I'm more used to silly Nissan prices (s/hand box ~ £600, s/hand engine ~£1000+!) s:)

s:)

I presume between you and Mark you probably have a healthy set of tools, but if you need to borrow anything feel free to ask if I've got one s:)

s:)

markiii · February 4, 2004, 12:10

Adam,

That gearbox price is plus getting the shaft machined. Add on teh ballache and cost of this and you may be better getting the roadster 6 speed?

I'd certainly ask first, or possibly see if you can buy the shaft seperately from a Uk dealer?

Anonymous · February 4, 2004, 12:51

I have a JSPEC with a US 2ZZ-GE. On the JSPEC 1ZZ I needed to press the clutch to start it and so is the US 2ZZ-GE.

I do not know how the UK ones work. Does you car start even if you do not press the clutch??

As for the Transmission. Make sure you get a 2ZZ transmission(C60). The gear ratios wont be suitable for the 2ZZ if you use the MR2 transmission. Get a 2ZZ transmission and a shaft from an MR2 or machine one.

Slacey · February 4, 2004, 12:57

Quote from: "CIN"I do not know how the UK ones work. Does you car start even if you do not press the clutch??

Yep...

Anonymous · February 4, 2004, 13:01

Oh. Then Toyota believes that we EU guys are not lawsuit maniacs like the merikans then s:lol: :lol: s:lol:

Tem · February 4, 2004, 13:07

Quote from: "CIN"Oh. Then Toyota believes that we EU guys are not lawsuit maniacs like the merikans then s:lol: :lol: s:lol:

...or maybe most ppl in EU just know how to drive a manual car s;)

s;) Manual seems to be rare and expensive option on the other side of the pond...

(AFAIK, all US manual cars have this feature, but I'm sure there are some exceptions)

Anonymous · February 4, 2004, 13:17

It is probably as you wrote my friend. s:wink: :wink: s:wink:

How are you doing. You rarely post on SC anymore.

Tem · February 4, 2004, 13:31

Quote from: "CIN"You rarely post on SC anymore.

Been a bit busy with work lately, +100 hours weeks don't really leave that much time for SC s:? :? s:? Just trying to keep up with the Performance Forum over there s8)

s8)

Anonymous · February 4, 2004, 14:01

100hrs s:shock: :shock: s:shock:

That should bring in lots of $$$ though s:wink: :wink: s:wink:

Jap GT300 · February 4, 2004, 14:31

Quote from: "CIN"As for the Transmission. Make sure you get a 2ZZ transmission(C60). The gear ratios wont be suitable for the 2ZZ if you use the MR2 transmission. Get a 2ZZ transmission and a shaft from an MR2 or machine one.

Will the 1zz gearbox really be that different? As a guide how much did it cost you to have the shaft machined?

Can I not do the 6 speed conversion on my SMT box and attach it to the 2zz once I have all the additional parts to convert it to a manual?

Also could I use the shift shaft from my SMT or is that different to the manual and does it have to 5/6 speed specific?

Thanks Adam