Safe EGT - then drifted into Charge Cooler install

[muffdan]

The internet has not been much help on this. Can anyone provide some educated information as to what a safe EGT (measured pre-turbo in the manifold) would be for my engine / turbo before things start melting? I have forged wiseco pistons, Darton sleeves and GT28RS turbo attached with a cast manifold (TTET manifold). My Defi EGT gauge tops out at 1100 degrees C and came with its warning light set at 900 degrees. I can hit 900 without too much effort so I'm a little concerned.

Jason

[markiii]

900c on a turbo is pretty normal, 2000c isn;t unheard of

[muffdan]

2000 C, jeez!

So what should I set my EGT warning light/beep at (meaning I should back off)? 1000 degrees?

[markiii]

2000 C, jeez!

So what should I set my EGT warning light/beep at (meaning I should back off)? 1000 degrees?

tbh I'd be more interested in the AFR

[custardavenger]

You say it makes 900 easy. Does it ever max out the guage?

[muffdan]

it doesn't max out the guage, the peak reading it's recorded is 940 and then I backed off. I think I could easily get it over 1000 if I was making a top speed run.

I've got a wide-band o2 sensor, but this is hooked into the G4 and I don't have a means to read what it is actively measuring. I'm hoping that the G4 takes care of monitoring and reacting to the AFR reading.

I guess I could plug the laptop into it and go for a run. I haven't actually hooked up the laptop to it yet despite having a tempting USB cable hanging out my luggage bins!

Jason

[philster_d]

This is how I have got mine set up as well so there will be no display from the lc1. I suppose, Jase, it might be worth another guage. I hadnt realy thought about it yet.

/Phil

[markiii]

this is why you really want a chargecooler because a lot of that heat will find it's way into the air charge

[muffdan]

this is why you really want a chargecooler because a lot of that heat will find it's way into the air charge

I am with you on that. I've tried the bigger intercooler and it's still not getting the job done. Its great for short burst at WOT, but it just can't handle sustained periods. It heat soaks way too quick. Fancy fitting one for me!   s:o s:o  

Phil, there is the option of getting the DisplayLink but at £550 its hard to justify. I have the Techedge 2J1 rather than the Innovate. Can these wideband control units output feed two devices at once? I guess it depends on how much current the G4 and any connected guage would draw. I do have the second sensor socket free and a spare wide-band sensor, but it would be a shame to have to buy another controller just to get a reading to a guage.

I am very motivated to get this setup as safe as I can, I really don't want another melted piston.

Jason

[markiii]

this is why you really want a chargecooler because a lot of that heat will find it's way into the air charge

I am with you on that. I've tried the bigger intercooler and it's still not getting the job done. Its great for short burst at WOT, but it just can't handle sustained periods. It heat soaks way too quick. Fancy fitting one for me!   s:o s:o  

Phil, there is the option of getting the DisplayLink but at £550 its hard to justify. I have the Techedge 2J1 rather than the Innovate. Can these wideband control units output feed two devices at once? I guess it depends on how much current the G4 and any connected guage would draw. I do have the second sensor socket free and a spare wide-band sensor, but it would be a shame to have to buy another controller just to get a reading to a guage.

I am very motivated to get this setup as safe as I can, I really don't want another melted piston.

Jason

go buy Phils PWR kit then, bargain

fitting  :-) :-) :-)  I can probably be persuaded, wheres your MAF lcated these days?

[muffdan]

The MAF is between the IC and the TB. Placing the CC were the IC presently is probably the easiest option? The IC inlet and outlet pipes don't line up though. I'm sure you know the shape of the TTE IC in that the outlet is angled around 45 degrees from the input.

Let me know what it'll take to make that 'probably' a 'definitely'! I'll talk to Phil about his kit and when I can get it.

*edit: Is Phil's barrel (4" x 8") big enough?!

Jason

[markiii]

whats your power aims?

[markiii]

4 x 8 is rated at 290bhp

[muffdan]

I'm looking for ~340 bhp

I just priced up a system from components ( w www.advancedvehicletuning.co.uk w ) consisting of a 5" x 6" with a 24"x12"x1" rad, header tank, water pump and piping runs at £780. Is that size rad going to fit at the front and do I need a fan fitted to the rad?

[markiii]

83 metro turbo rad will run you £60 and is a known fit

[markiii]

how wide is you air to air rad? I'm thinking a 10" may struggle

[muffdan]

cool, any problems with hose fitting? It'll need to hook up to 19mm hose. And where do you get a new metro turbo rad from!

[markiii]

any auto part stores, the part number will be in one of mine and Stus old CC threads somewhere

from memory we had to aquire some couplers to reduce teh bore

[muffdan]

Ok thanks, I'll get the parts ordered at the end of the week.

[markiii]

jeez louise lets compile a checklist first  :-) :-) :-)

prerad (from metro) make sure get teh one with teh outlet and inlet on teh same side

pwr barrell - get the space measured first  and the size of teh intercooler piping bore so you can pick teh right couplers

[muffdan]

lol, fair enough! Just had a read through your's and Stu's install thread.

Is this the right rad?
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/MG-METRO-1300-TURBO-RADIATOR-NEW-1000-1300-METRO_W0QQitemZ350191396270QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM?hash=item518908a5ae&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14

I just took some photos and made some measurements. The pipe running to my IC is 2" diameter (I thought it was 2.5") so the 4" barrel range is what I should be looking at. The inlets and outlets from the IC are not going to make it as easy for swapping in a CC as there are angles to deal with.





The distance between the centre of the inlet mouth and the centre of the outlet mouth is approximately 13" in a straight line, so there's some room to play here.

[Tem]

Can anyone provide some educated information as to what a safe EGT (measured pre-turbo in the manifold) would be for my engine / turbo before things start melting? I have forged wiseco pistons, Darton sleeves and GT28RS turbo attached with a cast manifold (TTET manifold).

You won't find good answer from the net, cause it really depends a lot from your engine. Factory turboed engines tend to handle heat better than N/A engines. And with built engines, you really can only guess.

If you'd add the MWR valves, then this wouldn't be an issue:
 m http://www.aijaa.com/v.php?i=4481146.jpg m

Exhaust valves are often the first to go with with high exhaust temps. 900C is "nothing" though, even stock economy N/A engines can reach that. You might not wanna do long runs above 950C though. And you probably should worry, if it peaks around 1000C.

Cast iron starts to melt around 1200C, so you don't wanna go up there even if your engine could handle it, cause your turbo won't.  s:lol: :lol: s:lol:  

Hope that helps some...can't really say anything definite though.

[muffdan]

cheers Tem, that is a help. I do have the MWR valves, so I won't worry about my engine running at those temps. I'm not as confused about turbo damage as that's just a case of splash some cash on a new one and bolt it on. Melted pistons and the like tend to cost a little more money and a lot more time to put right!

[Tem]

I'm not as confused about turbo damage as that's just a case of splash some cash on a new one and bolt it on.

It's not that straightforward, remember that turbo connects to the intake side and oil lines too. Failed turbo may spit stuff around. They may even make their way through the IC and other "obstacles" into the engine...after which you might have just killed your pistons, valves, bores, basically just about anything. Or if you get metal shrapnel in your oil, you might be looking at new bearings here and there, maybe even new crank/camshafts and oil pump.  s:? :? s:?  It's not even that rare...but not really a real issue at your current temps though. Just to remind you that turbo really isn't just an "external" unit.  s8) s8)

[muffdan]

Point taken Tem, I certainly don't want bits of compressor blade shooting through the intake.

I hit the peak button on my guage this morning and it read 1180 degrees (approx, the numbers stop at 1100). All seems fine with engine and turbo from a performance / sound point of view, but I think I'm going to limit my boosting until the charge cooler is sorted out.