PPE Header

Anonymous · February 27, 2004, 14:39

Quote from: "dieamond"A TRD header never allowed a MR to go faster...

More torque and more bhp......how does this not help speed/acceleration?

dieamond · February 27, 2004, 14:50

Show me a dyno...

Seriously, the only difference beetween the TRD header and the original is the removing of the precats.
TRD is newer so clean and all, but note taht pipes are the same diameter as stock, and nearly exactly the same design, where is optimization ??

<MOD>Changed pic to link due to size<MOD>

http://www.spydermagazine.com/files/headers.JPG

I know TRD claims +14hp for their headers, exhaust and intake pipe (300 Euros for an aluminium pipe, just bright...) but it has never been verified, and I bet it's not possible.

If you want to spend 800£ in some TRD stuff, buy a Sportivo suspension set, THAT will make you go faster (in curves, not in straight lines, i admit)

Jap GT300 · February 27, 2004, 15:27

I think what he is saying is 14bhp isn't a noticable difference.

I couldn't feel the difference under acceleration once I had added the PPE Header and down pipe

markiii · February 27, 2004, 15:28

for a 4-2 header which is what the TRD is there is nothing wrong with the pipe diameters. The main restriction is the pre-cats.

Hence why the Amuse, Top Secret, TRD, and Trial headers are all much teh same. The only thing to really judge them on is shape, quality and price. Any gaisn will be much the same.

Gutting the pre-cats will be much cheaper an nearly a effective as it's only the slight balloon where the cats sit that disturbs the flow.

If Power is the reason yor going this way and the PPE isn't available I'd seriously suggest leaving teh header for now and spending teh £450 on a unichip.

And with regard to the comment about gutting you main cat. I wouldn't.

I had a decat pipe made as some of you know. Having driven shall we say a little competitively with SteveJ last week i realised just what a hole in bottom end torque this caused, though granted it freed up a little at the top end. I've since swapped that cat back on and teh car is notably faster.

So if your gutting, or adding a TRD or any of the above my advice is leave teh cat alone.

My decat pipe will be going back on when theturbo is done.

dieamond · February 27, 2004, 15:33

14hp is a difference

what I say is that you will never get it, TRD is *lying*

markiii · February 27, 2004, 15:35

in short

TRD gives better throttle response, more noise, and removes the chance of pre-cats disintegrating.

PPE makes proper power. but with the one adam has, has a questionable 02 sensor layout.

Anonymous · February 27, 2004, 15:50

Quote from: "markiii"If Power is the reason yor going this way and the PPE isn't available I'd seriously suggest leaving the header for now and spending the £450 on a unichip. .

Mark, is the unichip with just filter and exhaust changed likely to make much difference tho?

markiii · February 27, 2004, 15:54

every engine is different, but Martin got 22bhp with just a unichip and an apexi intake (probably would have got it without the intake)

Anonymous · February 27, 2004, 16:07

do you think your decat would have performed better if it had been chipped, thus tuning it for the reduced back pressure?

markiii · February 27, 2004, 16:35

I beleive so.

If you want to try the theory your welcome to borrow it and have the map adjusted.

If I was staying n/a thats what I would have done.

Anonymous · February 27, 2004, 17:33

Thats very nice of you matey s;-) ;-) s;-) to be truthful I wouldnt realy want to have the car mapped and the nre-mapped again after I either gut it or replace it.

A few questions for you :-) :-) :-)

who made up the cat pipe? Cost? Was it done in one hit or did you need to leave the car or cat with them for more than a day?

I only ask as I need the car most days. If it wasnt too expensive I would rather buy the pipe, have the car chipped and if its no good then get the chippers to take it off there and then.

(sorry if this has been covered before)

markiii · February 27, 2004, 18:15

mine was modified from a spare main cat unit I bought for £30

I've spoken to H&S and they would make a dedicated pipe with flex joint for approx £150

Anonymous · February 27, 2004, 18:18

so 150 for the pipe and 450 for the chip..............Milway you say s;-) ;-) s;-)

markiii · February 27, 2004, 18:22

milway for the chip, oh yes

heres a thought.

DAZ400 recently killed his cat, if he still has it maybe you can go teh route I did and pay peanuts to have teh cat cut out and some pipe welded in.

markiii · February 27, 2004, 18:23

if you decide to go that route let me know when your going to be at millway and maybe we can make a bit of a meet of it, and I'll pop down for a dyno run as well.

Anonymous · February 27, 2004, 18:25

will do matey :-) :-) :-)

DAZ if you have it my name is on it!!!!!

PM on its way

Anonymous · February 27, 2004, 18:53

Just been on the Millway site only to read for the first time about the turbo'd SMT they did? I obviously havnt been reading all the posts! ??

who's is it??? how much?

aaronjb · February 27, 2004, 19:01

I'd say that'd be Martin's (mph on here) SMT Roadster.. s:)

s:)

Hmm.. although looking at those pics, I could be wrong s:? :? s:?

[edit: No, looking at their dyno chart it has 'mph' in the top left hand corner next to the date.. so I reckon that's Martin's car..]

Anonymous · February 27, 2004, 19:01

ps Darrens cat has already been claimed s:cry: :cry: s:cry:

markiii · February 27, 2004, 19:04

it is Martins, have a word with Adam ref cats he may have a spare knocking around.

mph · February 27, 2004, 19:50

Eh? Someone talking about me again?

Millway good. Was there today doing some bits and pieces. Have reduced the boost down to .5 bar, but have a full remap (3.5 hours worth of playing by Hedley). Net result is that it's actually a little lower on top bhp (210bhp), but up 10lf/ft at the lower end to 220lb/ft @3100. Where 10bhp isn't really noticable, 10lb/ft *is*. Those driveshafts look awfully thin... s:? :? s:?

Anonymous · February 27, 2004, 20:04

As far as someone cares about it, here it is my dyno with PPE header/cat, Remus muffler, TRD panel air filter in stock box and stock ECU:

Never cell light, better torque and engine rev between 4000-5500 t/min in comparison to stock. I like my PPE header very much.

Tem · February 27, 2004, 20:40

Quote from: "Maurizio"As far as someone cares about it, here it is my dyno with PPE header/cat, Remus muffler, TRD panel air filter in stock box and stock ECU

Did you ever dyno the stock engine?

Also, where did they get the 40hp powerloss?? I had only 18hp powerloss, when it was measured...

mph · February 27, 2004, 21:59

Personally, I'd recommend never to compare dyno sheets - way too many variables to consider on how the values are calculated or adjusted.

Best only to compares plots done on the same day at the same dyno. Unadjusted air temperature, pressure and humidity will easily account for a +/- 5bhp difference on the stock engine. Remember that when you next see 'performance' air filters..

Anonymous · February 27, 2004, 22:18

I haven't tested stock engine. The drum bank was a MAHA 4 whell driven, braked, not inertial forced. Usually, its readings are lower than others banks. Indeed, the wheel Power is too low.. My engine is ok almost considering compression ratio that is normal. However, i have seen a dyno chart of a Elise made by the same tuning man and also in this case the power dispersed was high ( about 20-25 kw ).