Apexi turbo kit now fitted (+ pics)

[AC]

Some of you may remember from a related post not that long ago that Markiii was soon to be selling an Apexi turbo kit taken off a project motor.  Well, after receiving a nudge, sending numerous PM's, doing a bit of research (all from here, what a great resource you kind people are  s:bowdown: :bowdown: s:bowdown:  ), consulting with 2 of the most helpful and knowledgeable peeps on here (Markiii & Spit), oh yeah and checking insurance, I finally took the plunge and decided to do it  s:D s:D  .

The deal brokered includes employing the venerable skills of Mr Jones in fitting, so along as my 2 plays ball I'm hoping for an 'as trouble free as possible' installation.  The 200 mile drive back from darn sarth should certainly be interesting, just hope my licence is still valid by the time I get home  s:lol: :lol: s:lol:  .  The kit includes the Apexi blower, plumbing, intake together with an e-manage blue and an H&S race cat (to go with my existing Magnex cat back).  At stage 1 there won't be any cooling and it will run on stock injectors, if I reach or even pass 200hp I'll be quite chuffed.  The e-manage is from the previous installation and holds the last map, as the install on my 2 will closely reflect the previous I'm hoping the map will be safe enough to run me back up the road.  Re-mapping is the first job once reliability (in terms of settling down) follows.

There doesn't appear to be many Apexi Turbo'd Mk3's out there (I'm hoping that isn't a bad omen  s:( s:(  ), if anybody has one or has owned one what are/were your thoughts on;
- The kit itself?
- Any recommended or needed adjustments to help reliability and longevity?
- What levels of power and torque do you/did you see, and with what further mods, if any?

Obviously I'm very much looking forward to joining the 'blown' club (but hopefully not blown up  s:scared: :scared: s:scared:  ), but at the moment my apprehension swings from barely containable joy to suspecting headaches???  Oh and it's scheduled for next Friday if my Boomslang ever arrives  s:roll: :roll: s:roll:  .

[AC]

Well tomorrow is the big day, well a big day, not quite the big day, although me suspects turbo ownership may have many 'big days'.  I'm off early doors to Mr Jones residence for what should be a drive in drive out same day turbo fitting  s8) s8) .  Thought I would take some pics pre, during and post installation if only for the record as the Apexi kit seems a little rare in these parts.  Nothing much to see here really, but there's the engine bay, in standard guise, as many people know it (without the main manifold heat shield though as ShaunnyF (previous owner) colour coded it I believe and must of flogged it on before trading it in at Carcraft).





And here is just one of the parts to be added  s:bounce: :bounce: s:bounce:  



Things so far have gone almost according to plan, though you'd hope so without a spanner having been used in anger yet.  I have the Pro S 10w50 for the oil drop as the sump is removed and modified for turbo oil feed return and the presently used 5w40 might be a bit thin once boosted, Redline MT90 as we're also dropping the gearbox oil as well (apart from the improved shift I reckon its a good piece of advice from Mark on the basis that the box and diff should benefit from having a better grade in with soon having to transmit a fair degree more torque (the one thing that can kill a transmission)), Speed Source shifter bushes from TwosRus (another one of Mark's tips  s:wink: :wink: s:wink: ) and the oil filter sandwich plate.  The car was MOT'd at weekend giving me 12 months grace, it failed...... then passed.  My number plates do not have the BS mark on them  s:oops: :oops: s:oops: , but having kept the previous Carcraft plates (that's why I changed them, hardly a badge of honour) in the frunk they accepted it.

I did say almost; the one thing I still haven't received is the flaming Boomslang harness  s:x :x s:x , to plug the e-manage piggyback in to the existing stock ECU and not cutting wires.  Ordered it on 30/09/09, was despatched on 02/10/09 by USPS Airmail, but still no sign and Boomslang don't have a tracking reference for it  s:? :? s:? .  Maybe the postal strike has something to do with it?  All this means Mark will pull his tripe out tomorrow to give me the boost and I'll have to drive it with the wastegate wired open and no boost till the 'slang arrives  s:cry: :cry: s:cry: .  This could be the original definition of having your cake and not being able to eat it, well to begin with.

[muffdan]

It's a shame about the harness, good luck with the rest of the install though, hope it goes ok for you!

[Ilogik]

Shame its not on sat, should of got boomslang to send a replacement out via UPS  next day or something then return the other one once you got it.

[DannyN]

Anyone got one lying around you could "borrow" ??

[AC]

Shame its not on sat, should of got boomslang to send a replacement out via UPS next day or something then return the other one once you got it.

I haven't pushed Rustin (that's the man at Boomslang) too hard on the issue yet as he stated USPS Airmail can take 5-15 business days and funnily enough tomorrow is exactly the 15th day.  The other thing is they build them to order, so I guess they're not sat on stock.  Also, our postal strike might be a factor and I can't really blame him for that.  I'll be on his case Monday though.

Anyone got one lying around you could "borrow" ??

Now that's a thought  s:bounce: :bounce: s:bounce:    s:bounce: :bounce: s:bounce:    s:bounce: :bounce: s:bounce: .  Anybody???

[Peter Wright]

Got one im not using at the moment, but how to get it to you ?
You are more than welcolme if you can somehow
Pete

[Ilogik]

Shame its not on sat, should of got boomslang to send a replacement out via UPS next day or something then return the other one once you got it.

I haven't pushed Rustin (that's the man at Boomslang) too hard on the issue yet as he stated USPS Airmail can take 5-15 business days and funnily enough tomorrow is exactly the 15th day.  The other thing is they build them to order, so I guess they're not sat on stock.  Also, our postal strike might be a factor and I can't really blame him for that.  I'll be on his case Monday though.

Anyone got one lying around you could "borrow" ??

Now that's a thought  s:bounce: :bounce: s:bounce:    s:bounce: :bounce: s:bounce:    s:bounce: :bounce: s:bounce: .  Anybody???

Prob being held up by bloody customs and parcel force, Most USPS Packages are dealt with via parcel force, and parcel force love to rape you lol. You may get lucky, UPS on the other hand very quick no problems, if there going to charge you, they do it whilst its in transit. Good luck with the build bud  s:) s:)

[DannyN]

Got one Im not using at the moment, but how to get it to you ?
You are more than welcolme if you can somehow
Pete

Delivery Support Network ??

[markiii]

to get from Norwich to Welwyn in 11 hours its going to have to be good  :-) :-) :-)

[DannyN]

Delivery Support Network ??

[AC]

Damn, blast and set fire to it......Why do I have to live up north???

It's at times like these I wish I had a helicopter, actually I wish had one all the time.

Is anybody even travelling East Anglia to Hertfordshire- ish during the day tomorrow?

If so, Mark could we not do the plug n play thing with the e-manage towards the end of the installation in the evening?  (I have just consulted a map, it's not going to happen).

As James May often says, "oh cock". (sorry not meant as an expletive).

Thanks for the idea's though peeps.

[markiii]

I always do the electronics last anyway so no big deal there

if by some miracle it can get here by early evening

[Peter Wright]

Is anybody even travelling East Anglia to Hertfordshire- ish during the day tomorrow?

Now leaving off work, have no internet connection at home
What I will do is put it in the van, so if you can find a way it will be here
Start work at 5.30 in the morning, address etc on my website  m http://www.alexnews.co.uk m  
NR2 3ED

[AC]

Its not even like I could take a de-tour on the way to Mark's.  Manchester - Norwich - Welwyn and arrive by 9am???  s:flame: :flame: s:flame:  

Maybe, if the turbo was already fitted  s:wink: :wink: s:wink:  .

Back to the drawing board (and a grovelling PM to Mr Wright).

[philster_d]

I also have one at home. sorry if its a bit late now.

[Anonymous]

im going to birmingham tomorrow if your able to get peter to meet me on route say somewhere round the m11 a14 part i can take up to ilogik for you to collect. gets it most of the way there.

[AC]

But not quite finished, due to the lack of Boomslang  s:x :x s:x  .  Thankfully I had the Royal Mail note through this am, so I am now in possesion of the 'bugger'.  But a big thanks to the people who came with offers of help (DannyN, Peter Wright, philster_d and rbuckingham to mention just a few).  The annoying part was that if we'd had the slang it would have saved 3-4 hrs of troubleshooting (not to mention a few years of Mark and Nigel's lives as well) at the end when it was running sick.

Phew what a day Friday was though, 22hrs from leaving home to returning  s:shock: :shock: s:shock: .  I suspected many 'big days' with turbo ownership and number 1 did not disappoint.  Hat's off to Mark (markiii) and Nigel (loadswine) who performed the entire install, I must say after witnessing it I was suprised by the degree of work involved; a full day for two very knowledgeable and talented people.  I'll post a full review on this aspect in Buyer/Seller feedback section shortly.  Also, the progress pictures taken Friday will pop up on this thread soon as well.

The drive back was tormenting in a sense, imagine, having watched the install unfold and see it 99% complete, to then leave Welwyn at just turned midnight to drive the length of the A1 to the M62 and keep it below 3000rpm in each gear.  The wastegate was wired open with the e-manage not fitted, or as close to open as could be achieved.  When I first tested the car after install and troubleshooting and ran it a little past 4000rpm it was generating just a small amount of boost with BOV activity just audible on gearchange.  To drive for 3.5 hrs knowing what was under the right foot from the first test, yet I dare not explore it, was a test of persons constitution (I'm now suspecting I was a monk in a previous life as my turbo celibacy did not falter   s:crazyeyes: :crazyeyes: s:crazyeyes:   though a CEL admittedly helped).

Anyway tomorrow the e-manage with slang will be fitted whilst the negative battery terminal is disconnected.  After that the install on my car will be identical to the one it came off (an SMT) with the only difference being that the SMT had an Aquamist fitted.  The map existing on the e-manage is from the previous car.  My question now is will it be safe, or not, to run the car with boost using the existing map  s:?: :?: s:?:    s:?: :?: s:?:    s:?: :?: s:?:  (i.e. wastegate not wired open but functioning as set from previous install).  I wouldn't blow its brains out past 6000rpm.  But, I have had advice not to unwire the wastegate before the kit is mapped specifically to my car, which I know is a good sensible point.  It's just hard not to succumb to the pleasures of boost when it's there right under your foot  s:flame: :flame: s:flame:  .

Answers on a replypost or PM please?

[Anonymous]

The Aquamist makes a lot of difference when it comes to being able to advance the timing, so however tempting it I would not run boost with the existing EM map under any circumstances. Is it really worth the risk of (probable) serious engine damage?

[spit]

Congrats Andrew.  s8) s8)  

I'm in two minds about how crucial the aquamist effect is/was. Its largely dependent on how the current map was set up. You may not wish to take the risk but in any case its worth getting into the EM and having a look. Also worth setting up your TPS to match, although they don't seem to vary hugely at closed and open throttle voltages.

On the plus side, there are a handful of C2 turbos running around with no ignition adjust on the map and no discernable issues that are threatening the engines. But then, they're mapped to compensate through fuelling. Also, the off-the-shelf PE uses naff-all ECU intervention. Its a lumpy tune but its all down to increased fuel. Do we know what the TTET box of tricks does/doesn't do? Anyhoo, they all work ok, so if your EM map doesn't rely heavily on timing adjust I'd suggest you'll be OK too.

[Anonymous]

See, now I'd totally disagree with that. Look at what happened to Philster's car to see what happens if you've got a bad tune (if it was that, of course) and then tell me you still want to risk running a turbo'd car with a potentially dangerous map.

[markiii]

well I'm told that the map was not setup for the aquamist, rather that it was added as a safeguard

so in theory there should be no issue.

however as I' ve said to Andy over the last few weeks, I would NEVER run a map not optimised for your car as anything other than a short term measure

I beleive its going to be mapped fairly soon, and if you wanted to absolutely sure I might leave the wastegate wired open until then as I can't guarantee first hand how good or bad the map maybe

in principle it should be fine.

just depends on your comfort level, and I must admit Philster situation does bring home that safe is better than sorry

I would however leave it wired open for teh first test run one the emanage is installed. and see how it drives, then take the decision

[AC]

Update, with the pictures taken during the install performed by Mark and Nigel.

First job was to get the sump off as the RTV sealant used when re-fixing it needed 8hrs to cure.  The sump has to be drilled to attach the turbo oil feed return pipe to.


Sump ready to re-fit, drilled with return pipe attached and cleaned out with petrol (although it looks like Nige is sat on the bog with the roll to one side whilst holding an oil pan  s:lol: :lol: s:lol:  , I can in fact vouch he was actually in Mark's pit).  Nice job with the sealant though.


With sump re-fitted exhaust and intake then stripped off, H&S race cat replacing stock.


A sandwich plate is the preferred means to providing the turbo oil feed, having four ports it also allows for easy adding of oil pressure & temp gauges later.


The cast manifold, turbo and downpipe were still assembled following removal of the SMT, so with a little jiggling dropped in complete.


Intake pipework, pre and post turbo, starts to take place.  A bit of plumbing required and the MAF cable needed extending as its position on the Apexi kit is directly after the cone filter which sits roughly where a markiii (or stock) intake pipe does.


And here is the standard installation complete.  Only real difference with this and how it was on the SMT is the lack of the Aquamist.


The Apexi kit is quite a good set-up on the face of it; the cast manifold should resist splitting unlike welded types, having the turbo on top is a good design and the turbo is apparently an IHI ball bearing design spec'd by Apexi.  The blower is certainly one of the smaller out there but designed for rapid spool.  It has both oil and coolant feeds and another neat touch is the coolant feed being taken from an existing thread where a blanking tap sits in the block.  There is no cooling with this kit as standard which probably explains the Aquamist being on the SMT, whether I stay uncooled or go inter/charge is yet to be decided.  Also you'll notice there is an atmos BOV as well, though I may try re-circulating with time as I've been told it can improve throttle response.

With the installation complete, except for the e-manage due to no boomslang, the time came to start it up (wastegate wired open of course), and that's when the fun and games began  s:shock: :shock: s:shock:  .  It turned and fired, and ran, but it was not happy.  Idle was weak and was dropping, and the sound wasn't right.  A few more starts took place holding higher revs to see if the ecu needed to re-learn, but still it was not right.  All pipework was checked for air leaks, spark plugs and coil packs swapped, but that didn't cure it.  A few phone calls were then made and a couple of theories popped up; the Dastek Unichip was still installed, it was removed but didn't cure it.  Throughout no CEL lit up.  The MAF was then unplugged, car started and with initial revs it settled down and sounded more like normal, the car was apparently now running on the 'safe' map on the stock ecu.  Drove it up and down the road and it was ok until 3000rpm at which point it stuttered noticeably.  The conclusion was reached that the MAF was causing the issue.  Now this Apexi kit seats the MAF right at the intake start immediately after the cone filter.  The pipe the MAF screws into is a wider diameter than stock and without the e-manage and its map installed we concluded that the change in airflow due to the wider pipe was causing a possible lean mix, i.e. same amount of fuel from stock ecu settings but more air with the larger pipe.  So a fix was thought up which involved a pipe with MAF mount and the same diameter as stock being slipped in to the intake plumbing, which just happened to go post turbo and pre BOV and TB.

With a MAF in place in this new position the car started and ran like expected, a quick run down the road and it was running and revving fine, passing 3000rpm, generating a degree of boost and dumping through the BOV (even with wastegate wired open).  Happy days  s:) s:)  .  The initial conclusion was that once the e-manage was installed the standard set up with the MAF pre turbo should then run fine and most likely this teething problem was due to not having the map adjustment that the e-manage would bring for the Apexi kit as it was running on the SMT (which it did fine apparently).

Come Sunday morning, now over at the Spitstop (to firstly get a CEL read that occurred whilst returning home Sat am after Friday's install (turned out to be cat related and hasn't returned since e-manage plugged in)) I removed the MAF fix, replaced standard pipework, plugged in boomslang and e-manage and fired it up.  Surprisingly the same problem as Friday night re-occurred  s:( s:(  .  Poor idle and wrong sound.  We then plugged Ste's e-manage in from his C2 kit just to check that the map on my e-manage hadn't corrupted, but exactly the same issue.  Went back to the MAF fix (i.e. post turbo) but now with my e-manage plugged in, started and ran fine.  I did then un-wire the wastegate  s:crazyeyes: :crazyeyes: s:crazyeyes:  (I know, contrary to some peoples advice) and gave it a run.  It worked fine, boosting, wastegate fluttering, BOV dumping, some enhancement to the performance but for certain it needs mapping as it was not spooling that quick and delivering only subtle improvement (2zz injectors on their way and appointment at Noble very soon).

Anyway (if your still with it and not a sleep, having read all this, thanks  s:oops: :oops: s:oops:  ) the big question now is why won't the kit run on my car without this MAF fix (move) when it ran perfectly fine on the SMT  s:?: :?: s:?:    s:?: :?: s:?:    s:?: :?: s:?:  .  The Aquamist wasn't apparently mapped in as it was added later, so the installation on my car is virtually identical to when it was on the SMT.  Now I know 2 cars are never the same and I expected that to result in maybe lower performance, but it just doesn't run right even at idle with the standard Apexi kit MAF position.  Very curious indeed.....

[MR 2ster]

Sweet looks awesome!!! Well done!!

I find that Apexi stuff other than the PFC doesn't feature much on Mk3's but IMO its awesome kit - I love the Apexi N1 zorst I got and the complete package of filter, tubby, zorst and management is a clear winner IMO!

Anyway...great work as said!!! Whens it geting Dyno'd?

[Ilogik]

Sounds like marks got a nice bloody garage! wish I had my own pit lol. Looks like a tidy install hows it going now enjoying it?