Engine rebuild - If money no object.

[The Lum]

Well as some of you may be away my bottom end is gone on the 2. So at the moment trying to get quotes for a rebuild as well as a refurbed replacement. However what I am thinking is if I get the original engine rebuilt what would you change in it? Obvious answers would be cams, exhaust and intake but what about for reliablity so as I dont have the same issue again or seen as the engine will be out is there anything that can be changed whilst out???

[Wabbitkilla]

I would go for a light rebore or honing to even the cylinders up amd fit the newer design pistons, rings, and new big end and little end shells. I'd add in a new timing chain, sprockets and tensioner too.

[The Lum]

Thats a good shout about the newer pistons. I did consider the rebore engine. Wondered if ever done upto a 2.0 rather than the 1.8? Dunno if new engine management would then be needed.

[Wabbitkilla]

New engine management and injectors would be needed if going to 2 litre. The big bore options all have their 'challenges', no one has one running 100% yet anf boy they seem to cost a packet to get and keep running. Best bet is to stick to the standard displacement for reliability. imho of course  s;) s;)

[mrzwei]

There are some possible ideas in the 'Engine mods and performance gains for N/A 1zz' in the thread near the top. Crower cams and lightened flywheel seem popular. I think it was ChrisGB who pointed out that there isn't massive scope with the 1ZZ in terms of head modification (valve sizes, flow mods etc) so most improvements seem to come from add on stuff (which means that an exchange half engine may be the best way to go). Be really interesting to see how the costings work out. Someone on here has gone the 'modify the existing block' route but I can't find the link; I think they got some good power / torque gains.

[muffdan]

if the bore is ovaled, (which it probably is if it's run out of oil without you noticing and killed the big ends?), then you need to sleeve the block or it's going to use a hell of a lot of oil still once it's rebuilt. The rings won't bed properly. Getting sleeves fitted isn't going to be cheap though.

Basically your best bet is to forget about a rebuild and go with a replacement engine from a later car that'll have the newer piston design and won't carry the risk of oval bores.

Forgive me if you've mentioned this in another thread, but what's the situation with your pre-cats?

[The Lum]

Pre cats have not been checked to be honest as I've only had the car for 3 weeks so not really had time to check it.

[Tem]

If money really is no object:
 m http://store.monkeywrenchracing.com/pro ... cts_id=816 m

Of course the listed price is just for the basic package, without money objects you would of course choose all the options for additional $5000. And then another $5000 or so to engine externals too while you're at it.  s;) s;)



On a more serious note, how much are you looking to spend? What are you trying to gain? Power, how much? Just reliability? Will the engine be N/A or do you plan to boost it? You kinda need to tell more to get any useful answers, otherwise it'll be just ppl listing this and that without any clue what would actually be useful to you.

[Tem]

New engine management and injectors would be needed if going to 2 litre.

Why?

You're only looking at less than 10% power increase. And it's not really any different than installing better flowing intakes&exhaust, stock ecu will see the increased airflow through the MAF.

[Wabbitkilla]

Sounds fair enough, but if money really is no object, why rebuild - just get a more modern, more powerful engine and stronger gearbox adapted into the bay.

[The Lum]

Ok so let's say more realistc money was a slight issue and you have circa £2k all in.

[DannyN]

Ok so let's say more realistc money was a slight issue and you have circa £2k all in.

Then you'd only need to find about another grand and you could have a V6 installed

hth   s:D s:D

[muffdan]

for £2k, 2nd hand replacement engine is the best option. For that amount you should be able to get a nice low milage engine from a late car.

[Anonymous]

Thats a good shout about the newer pistons. I did consider the rebore engine. Wondered if ever done upto a 2.0 rather than the 1.8? Dunno if new engine management would then be needed.

Stay well away from sleeving / 82mm boring the 1zz if you want reliability.

[Wabbitkilla]

In dreamland mode, i'd go for the bike based v8 with a quaif gearbox   s:lol: :lol: s:lol:

[The Lum]

I've done a few searches but been unable to find a definative answer but if I was going to go down the V6 or 2zz option how much should I budget and who could do it?

[DannyN]

For the V6 I think you'd be best speaking to Paul at Woodsport, thats from seeing his work on here in pictures (see if you can find Loadswine build thread, its on here somewhere)

[The Lum]

Cheers just been on the Woodsport website. Shows the V6 conversion starting at £4k. Seems like good value seen as that appears to be supplied and fitted but only issue is its the same amout as what I paid for the actual car lol. Not sure if I can really justify it in my own head.

[The Lum]

As another thought if I was to buy a recon engine does anyone have the faintest idea how much the revised pistons and seals etc from the 03-> engines would cost as I could add them in whilst engine is out???

[mrzwei]

I'm losing the plot a bit here, mainly because there are too many options for my remaining brain cell  s:D s:D  
1. Just buy a newer, second hand low milage engine
2.  Let a specialist refurbish your existing engine and modify to your specific requirements (as was said this could be as simple as new big end shells but they have to take it apart to check).
3. Let Toyota put a new half engine in.
4. Get an exchange half engine from a motor factors having found someone to do the work.
5. Buy an exchange complete engine from a motor factors.
6. put in a different engine, 2ZZ, v6 or whatever.

Pitfalls: Your existing engine is low milage anyway so you need to be sure that if buying second hand you are not just getting the same problem.
You still need to be clear about the cause of the oil loss in the first place; Mr T says oval bores, a known issue, but at your milage? Also, the precat issue causing damage to the engine (and possibly any replacement) is not resolved.
Typically, Toyota have gone for the 'just change it option' but you would get a warranty (as you should dealing with a motor factors).

The questions you should be asking are 'exactly what do I want to use this car for, and how long am I likely to keep it? These should influence the spend. In themselves, pistons and rings won't cost an arm and a leg.

The Toyota Mechanic has identified the problem as 'bottom end', but the oval bore diognosis is conjecture without further tests - compression, pressure tests as I think others have suggested.

Personally, I don't see the point in buying a recon engine and then dismantling it to modify it; get them to build one to your spec in the first place.

[The Lum]

An engine builder in the next town over from me has been suggested as very reputable so starting to thinkg maybe worth puttin the car into them to have them check it over and cost up a rebuild with the newer pistons etc and then (thankfully local to them) there is a very good exhaust manufacturer who I shall have remove the precat setup and put on a full new exhaust system to rid the car of any future issue with that.

All in I think thats prob going to be the best shout as I will have a courtesy car for the time being and they can do it all properly for me as my mechanical knowledge is not brilliant.

[mrzwei]

That sounds good, I'd definately listen to what they have to say.

[muffdan]

As another thought if I was to buy a recon engine does anyone have the faintest idea how much the revised pistons and seals etc from the 03-> engines would cost as I could add them in whilst engine is out???

please, forget about a recon engine. If the engine that is reconditioned was because of oval bore syndrome, its going to use a lot of oil at the least (been there done it). Think about it, the bores are bigger than they should be. You need to bore out bigger and fit bigger pistons or sleeve it so that the bore diamater is reduced back to what it should be. If you know for sure that the engine suffered from some other failure, its another matter but you've got to be sure. Really the safest, quickest and in my option best option for you is to source and fit an engine that's from a later car's accident write off. Expect to pay between £1000 and £1500 all in. This is also much cheaper than getting your current engine rebuilt too unless you're paying mates-rates for the labour.

If you do fancy more performance however, and given that you are starting with a dead 1zz, then a 2zz or v6 conversion may be the way to go but don't limit your budget. By all means aim for a figure, but if you do it cheap or you aren't prepared to increase your budget if necessary, you're going to end up with compomises fitting a 2zz without replacing the gearbox is a prime example. I believe the 2zz option is going to be more reliable as all the v6 conversions I've heard of have suffered from issues after fitting   s:flame: :flame: s:flame:  . Understandable given the amount of engineering that goes into the job, but be prepared to break down and/or return the car a few times, maybe by trailer. Not ideal for an every-day car.

[loadswine]

Good luck with it all. A good post facelift secondhand engine swapped in there will always be your cheapest option if you can be sure of the unit you are buying, as has been said.
I think the current V6 swaps at Woodsport include the alloy V6 which is a good option, and for the money ,would be a very nice upgrade and fix all together. You can sell on the scrap engine and gearbox as well to offset the cost if you wanted.

The V6 swap is a fairly new one for the Roadster and to be fair, yes I had an issue with mine which was resolved admirably and has superb reliability these days, didn't miss a beat on track for 200 miles a few weeks back. I always accepted I was part of the development process and this helps future swaps. One or two other "reported" issues on other cars weren't to do with the actual swaps though, but the recipient vehicles' history.
If you were seriously contemplating one of these, I would speak to the owners of those cars for the correct version of how they have found their swaps. I certainly wouldn't accept a 2zz as being "more reliable" as so few have actually been done here. Other mods you could do to your car may impart far more unreliability.

I don't think very many people have gone for 1zz rebuilds historically, I'm guessing due to cost and complexity, but if you have someone very skilled and economical to hand, then we could  learn something from your experience.
I like the point of view of seeing an engine failure as a potential opportunity , rather than just the disaster though.  s:) s:)

[StuM]

One thing to consider is how long you intend to keep the car for.  Engine swaps (ie. non 1ZZ replacements) are nice if your car is a keeper, but do severely limit the resale potential of the car as it becomes very specialist.  Just worth considering.