Ticking sound from engine (Mk3 1ZZ-FE)

[Mk3-MR2]

Hi,

On a mellow afternoon I noticed that my 2001 Mk3 1ZZ-FE engine started making a ticking / pinging sound that comes from the right side of the engine. It is not extremely loud but definately audible when the music is off, louder when driving past a wall. It sounds like pinging / ticking with a slight metallic / jewellery tone. The ticks are constant and increases with the RPMs (i.e. no irregularity) and occurs after around 2300rpm all the way up to the redline, and only when I apply hard throttle (i.e. engine load). Not audible when the engine is cold. Also not audible when car is idling and revving the engine.

There are no other symptoms - power delivery fine, oil consumption fine, fuel consumption fine, no MIL light, etc.
There is a little bit of oil leaking from a small area just 2cm to the left of the timing chain tensioner cover (brown oval shaped cover with 2 bolts) but not actually from the cover - just left of it. Not sure if this is related or not.

First suspected timing problem. Timing was checked, all OK there. Took it to Toyota dealer who claimed it was the exhaust that was making the sound. Exhaust had some aftermarket silencer instead of the main cat. I checked the pre-cats and noticed one collapsed. Gutted both and replaced the main cat with a downpipe. Ticking sound is still there, so problem lies elsewhere.

Any ideas? Don't want to open / take out the engine if not necessary.
Could this be a serious problem? The noise although not that loud, is quite disturbing.
Could it be normal engine / VVT sound that just got amplified after the pre-cats started to become hollow / gutted?

Many thanks in advance.

[Ilogik]

When you said the pre cat had died my heart sank. Maybe engine on its way out, check out posts by The Lum sounds like similar issue. How long ago did you find the dead pre cat?

[markiii]

it can do this id the oild isn;t thick enough what oil are you running?

[Anonymous]

Have a look here as well

 l viewtopic.php?f=11&t=27398 l

[Mk3-MR2]

Using Total 15W40 oil. Pretty sure the consumption is fine however with this horrible dipstick it makes reading hard...

Opened and inspected the pre-cats 2 days ago; took the car to an exhaust place the same day to have them gutted and cleaned out. However I have no idea whether any brittle debris actually entered the engine. There was no visible debris on top of the collapsed pre-cat. Since I notice no other problems or symptoms with the engine it leads me to believe the engine may actually be fine; the ticking sound could indicate the contrary or it may be a completely different issue altogether...

[markiii]

at that viscosity I doubt your oil is teh issue then

[Wabbitkilla]

Could be the cam chain tensioner or something to do with the accessory belt - the idler pulleys can make a similar noise.

Worth checking.

[Anonymous]

If you look in reference section there is a video clip with noise, it's the very bottom clip:

 l viewtopic.php?f=46&t=12491 l

Rob.

[Mk3-MR2]

Thanks for the replies & links so far. From the video I would say the sound is different.
It sounds like when you tick fast with your nail on the metal side cover of your desktop PC. Definately a constant rhythmic ticking that correlates exactly to the engine rpm.

Could cat debris stuck in the silencer make this noise? Very difficult to distinguish if the sound is coming from the engine side or the silencer. As the noise only appears when the engine is under load (full throttle and in gear), I'd have to put the car on a dyno to have any chance of figuring this out...

[markiii]

sounds like noisy valves or tappets to me

[muffdan]

or big ends  s:( s:(    Have you had a compression test done?

[markiii]

or big ends  s:( s:(    Have you had a compression test done?

indeed, can you tell if teh noise comes from teh camcover are or teh bottom of teh engine area?

[mrzwei]

At first glance I would say tappets but you can usually hear this at tickover and it just follows the rev pattern of the engine.
You may not hear big ends at tickover as they tend to knock (not tick) under load.
A possibility is 'pinking', the timing is off or you are using a fuel with too low an octane for the ecu. This is a bit old fashioned but someone with more recent engine management systems knowledge may want to comment.

[muffdan]

If it was pinking the ECU would decect the knock and throw a CEL

[Anonymous]

I reckon its gearbox bearings.

[markiii]

I reckon its gearbox bearings.

I'd expect more of a whine, but possible

[russcannell]

To isolate the noise you will have to use a det can ...... Dead easy to make.... get some fairly rigid tubing of around 8mm id. A can of beans or similar and punch a hole in the bottom and push the tubing through 1/2" at the other end of the hose put an 8mm bolt and tie rap it on. You then have an engine stethoscope. Simply place the bolt on any metallic part and shove the can over your ears....Simples

Or you could go high tech and butcher a hearing aid & add a wireless transmitter of course...!

Cheers

Russ

[markiii]

do you empty the beans?

[mrzwei]

To isolate the noise you will have to use a det can ...... Dead easy to make.... get some fairly rigid tubing of around 8mm id. A can of beans or similar and punch a hole in the bottom and push the tubing through 1/2" at the other end of the hose put an 8mm bolt and tie rap it on. You then have an engine stethoscope. Simply place the bolt on any metallic part and shove the can over your ears

Alternatively, you could buy a mechanics stethoscope from Machine Mart for £6.89, or put your ear to a long screwdriver   s:scared: :scared: s:scared:  (I've not personally done this) to get the same result.

[russcannell]

do you empty the beans?

No Mark....You insert the beans individually into your aural cavities...That way the ticking noise magically disappears..  s:roll: :roll: s:roll:

[Anonymous]

do you empty the beans?

No Mark....You insert the beans individually into your aural cavities...That way the ticking noise magically disappears..  s:roll: :roll: s:roll:

Ah, that famous yorkshire soh.

[Mk3-MR2]

Yesterday I had a friend drove the car whilst I was leaning over the back (boot cover removed) trying to locate the sound.
From the top I could not hear it really, but I think the sound is coming from the bottom right area of the engine. As if the sound escapes past the rear right wheel.

Definately a constant rhythm tick with a metallic sound that goes up as revs goes up and only when flooring the accel pedal.
Also checked the area on the side of the motor where some tensioners are, while accelerating hard, and didn't notice anything loose. Sound also didn't come from there. All heat shields etc. are all also fine (i.e. not loose).

I've isolated the source of the little oil leak to just left / under the timing chain pully cover. Not sure if that's related. Also can't say if the oil leak started when the ticking noise started, or later or earlier. Engine was a bit dirty, only steamcleaned it a few days ago.

Maybe rod bearings?

[Anonymous]

Are you sure you've not got a manifold leak, that will tick certainly under load, look for black marks around the cat to manifold joint also manifold to head.

The oil leak you are talking about is a common problem, sounds like it needs a new O ring and re-seal, normally when you talk about orientation you should be standing at the back of the car looking at the engine so therefore it's on the right - helps stops causing confusion  s:wink: :wink: s:wink:  

Rob.

[Ilogik]

Yesterday I had a friend drove the car whilst I was leaning over the back (boot cover removed) trying to locate the sound.
From the top I could not hear it really, but I think the sound is coming from the bottom right area of the engine. As if the sound escapes past the rear right wheel.

Definately a constant rhythm tick with a metallic sound that goes up as revs goes up and only when flooring the accel pedal.
Also checked the area on the side of the motor where some tensioners are, while accelerating hard, and didn't notice anything loose. Sound also didn't come from there. All heat shields etc. are all also fine (i.e. not loose).

I've isolated the source of the little oil leak to just left / under the timing chain pully cover. Not sure if that's related. Also can't say if the oil leak started when the ticking noise started, or later or earlier. Engine was a bit dirty, only steamcleaned it a few days ago.

Maybe rod bearings?

I had a simlar sound on my car, turned out to be the inner heat shield on the cat exhaust making the noise. Really sounds like the engine is about to go, put a bit of weld in or just smash it off.

[Mk3-MR2]

Tried recording the ticking sound but my cellphone's frequency response is just not good enough to pick up the sound.

It does seem as if the sound is also there when idling & revving (out of gear), but not as loud and it does not have a real consistant "tick" to it then - it just sort of sounds metallic and "generic" - hardly noticable. Only when in gear and accelerating and applying hard throttle, does the metallic sound transform to a rhythmic sound which ticks around as fast as the engine rpm.

Could it be some rod that just spins a bit loose on one end, due to wasted bearing(s), and then the wasted bearing(s) make the ticking sound when in gear & under load?

Added some photos of the small oil leak. And the horrible to read oil dipstick, which never seems to have a clear line where the oil starts, and varies up to 1cm as well, even when always parked level and same engine temperature & in-town trip!