IC, CC or WI???

Started by AC, January 14, 2010, 21:11

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

AC

#25
Well I made the choice, just last week, so thought an update is in order.

Initially I was leaning towards IC for simplicity, ease of fit (and forget) and the fact that it seems to work for many turbo owners here.  I knew my exhaust set up would make this difficult as I have a Magnex twin which fits like the stock and uses a similar amount of space; one reason the C2, Hass and other unique IC's probably work is due to the change or even removal of the normal sized cat and silencer.  Having bought the Magnex fairly recently and the H&S race cat with the turbo I wasn't about to start changing all that.  So IC options boiled down to something similar to the TTET or a bespoke.  I did spend time on the latter, considered a Sierra Cosworth 4x4 IC mounted above the black exhaust heat shield with the idea of air flowing down through the engine cover grille, through the IC and out the slot/vent in the back bumper, but dimensions didn't quite work and no doubt being above the silencer would already comprise cooling ability.  So IC wise the TTET solution was really only the workable IC without changing lots of stuff.  So I got in touch with Matt at SP and encouragingly he has evolved the TTET IC to a beefier higher performance unit for the latest SP turbo kit.  Matt has this very set up on the SP demo car which runs 240hp and gets hard track use, so IC effectiveness is proven/known.  Matt sent me a couple of pics of the SP IC (hopefully he won't mind me posting them?).


Anybody who knows the TTET IC will instantly see it's a much improved unit.  Dimensionally the core is 220x205x60mm.  It sits in exactly the same place as the TTET IC soaking up the cold air flowing under the car.  On paper this solution offered a quick win; Matt has all the fittings required, IC mounts, IC to TB hard pipe with BOV outlet if required, hoses, clips.  All I would need is a compressor to IC pipe and even that could use the SP hard pipe up past the d/shaft with just a couple of silicone bends and a hard joiner probably required to complete the install  s:) :) s:) .  For any TTET people out there looking to improve their set up and maybe pursue some more horses then the SP upgrade would work nicely I'd think  s:wink: :wink: s:wink: .

So, what did I choose  s:?: :?: s:?:    s:?: :?: s:?:    s:?: :?: s:?:    A 4x6 PWR chargecooler kit  s:roll: :roll: s:roll: .  Why?  A couple of reasons.

1. First off the Apexi blower made far more power than I expected at first map, 230hp with no cooling and (now arguably) undersized injectors.  I was expecting it to make similar power to the uncooled PE (200hp ish) and if had the SP IC would be a good match taking me up but not past 240hp.  I now reckon this Apexi kit with good cooling and 440cc's (now fitted) could reach or even pass 250hp and at that level I wonder whether the SP IC would have been effective enough.
2. Secondly, the final cost of the SP IC with all fittings (less the fix from my compressor outlet to start of SP comp to IC hard pipe) was coming in around £530 with a nearly new IC Matt has knocking about (that would save me £100 as the new SP IC alone is £300).  That takes the IC option right into CC territory for parts alone.
3. Finally, consensus above was that CC would be the best (but also most expensive) solution.  Thanks for all your responses guys  s:bowdown: :bowdown: s:bowdown: .

With the difficulties of intake cooling on mid engined cars i.e. airflow, and the Apexi already suited to a barrel CC (turbo on top of manifold, outlet facing to left of car) the decision was reached.  The one big advantage to the SP IC was that even a noob like me could fit it and that in turn meant no labour cost.  The CC however is a more complex job, but stuff it, I've done my research (on here, mainly from Markiii and kanujunkie post) and in a Jeremy Clarkson style I said "how hard can it be"  s:lol: :lol: s:lol: .  Yep, its going to be a self fit  s:scared: :scared: s:scared: .  I'll post up the damage caused back on my Apexi thread very shortly when its done.


[size=85]The famous Walter Rohrl once said "Stay away from rear-wheel-drive cars unless.......", I had to agree on one particular occasion, but we did live happily ever after (apart from the trousers, they were a write off).

markiii

#26
nice on, mind if I ask how much teh PWR cost you in the end?

anything I can help with from my CC install just shout
Gallardo Spyder<br />Ex Midnight Blue 911 T4S<br />EX VXR220<br />Ex Custom Turbo 2001 Sahara Sun MR2 Roadster 269bp, 240lbft<br /><br />MR2ROC Committee 2002 - 2009<br /><br />

muffdan

#27
Good choice  s:) :) s:)
Jason
[size=80]\'00 Cape Green MR2 with Hard top, A/C & Leather - SP Turbo - 320bhp[/size]
[size=100]AEM - [/size][size=96]ARP - [/size][size=92]Crower - [/size][size=88]Cusco - [/si

AC

#28
Quote from: "markiii"nice on, mind if I ask how much the PWR cost you in the end?

anything I can help with from my CC install just shout

Thanks Mark.  Might be on to you about the +ve feed you took from the front fuse box on yours.

I ended up buying a full kit from AVT; 4x6 barrel, Bosch pump, 26x7" twin pass alloy rad, alloy inline filler, 10m of woven pipe with fittings and clips.  David Gentlemen of AVT was a very helpful chap indeed, answered my millions of questions, gave me a few tips, was good to do business with.  I persisted with him on the price front and eventually a small discount and free delivery brought the kit to my door for £615.

I did start looking at saving cost, was sourcing a pre 84 Metro turbo rad but these are like rocking horse poo now, most companies with any kind of availability were quoting £100 - £130 just for the steel rad  s:crazyeyes: :crazyeyes: s:crazyeyes: .  So I binned that and just took the full kit.  I made a useful find on ebay; a wiring harness from a Magnuson Supercharger kit for the Bosch pump, complete with inline fuse and relay, for £20, so had it quick as I'm absolutely pants with any electrics other than ICE.


[size=85]The famous Walter Rohrl once said "Stay away from rear-wheel-drive cars unless.......", I had to agree on one particular occasion, but we did live happily ever after (apart from the trousers, they were a write off).

markiii

#29
thats a damn good price not a whole lot more than I paid for mine

If I can sweet talk Jo into bringing her roadster when I see her this weekend I'll take you a pic
Gallardo Spyder<br />Ex Midnight Blue 911 T4S<br />EX VXR220<br />Ex Custom Turbo 2001 Sahara Sun MR2 Roadster 269bp, 240lbft<br /><br />MR2ROC Committee 2002 - 2009<br /><br />

muffdan

#30
We took a tap from the +ve feed to the wiper motor for my pump, if it's any help.
Jason
[size=80]\'00 Cape Green MR2 with Hard top, A/C & Leather - SP Turbo - 320bhp[/size]
[size=100]AEM - [/size][size=96]ARP - [/size][size=92]Crower - [/size][size=88]Cusco - [/si

AC

#31
Ok, now in possession of all the parts needed for the CC install, well except coolant but that's no biggy.  On the coolant front David at AVT advised a minimal coolant to water ratio as apparently coolant is less effective than water at dissipating heat???  I was thinking of a 33/66, what have other peeps gone with?  Also any idea's on fluid volume, I was reckoning 8 - 10 litres full?

Most will know this, but the CC kit as it comes from AVT isn't quite everything you need to complete the job.  Obviously provides the essentials of (in my case) 4"x6" barrel, 26"x7" twin pass alloy rad, Bosch water pump (pt no 0 392 022 002), inline alloy filler, 10m of 19mm hex woven pipe, 4 x 90 degree pipe joiners and 10 jubilee's.


I still required brackets, clamps, nuts & bolts, silicone piping and some electrics, all of which will be dependent on your set-up and planned install.  So in addition I bought (clockwise from left);


* 2 x Expamet HD Zinc straps 1000mm x 27.5mm x 5mm thick, from B&Q £3.38 each  s:wink: :wink: s:wink: .  These will be bent and cut to make the rad hangers.
* New silicone piping; 51mm to 57mm 45 degree silicone pipe, compressor to CC and 57mm to 70mm 90 degree silicone pipe, CC to TB. £32.42
(the CC isn't a Euro std thing as the inlets/outlets are 2.25" and .75" for air and water respectively, which does make finding silicone reducer bends a little more challenging).
* 1 x Expamet HD Zinc strap with twist 800mm x 27.5mm x 5mm thick, also B&Q £3.58.  This will be used to support the CC and also (hopefully) brace the turbo, as it has none.  I plan to fit it across the two engine lift holes, at the left end the CC support clamp will bolt on and in the middle the twist end (which will have been cut off the length) will bolt on and be bent/shaped to meet two M6 threaded holes in the compressor housing that I spotted  s:) :) s:) .  All that supports the turbo presently are the 5 manifold studs/nuts.
* Pump harness from a Magnuson S/C kit (lucky find on ebay tbh), which has correct plug, relay and inline fuse holder. £16.60 + USPS.
* 95 - 100mm motorcycle exhaust clamp with insulator.  This is the CC support clamp as the CC body is 100mm OD. £7.59
* Weber universal fuel pump bracket (pt no 9990159400), £18.97.  Surprisingly this was one of the hardest things to find, not this bracket but one the right size.  It's use is for mounting the Bosch water pump which has a body diameter of 59mm.  Having stripped out the front platics/frunk last weekend I plan to mount it to the back/bottom of the frunk making it the lowest part of the system and pointing the outlet straight down the water pipe tunnel under the car.

Additionally (not shown in piccy);
* 3m more of hex woven pipe as I've read 12m has been needed on other installs. £5.40
* A load of 100mm x 3.8mm cable ties for securing pipe runs. £2.79
* 16mm plug blank seeing as i'm losing the re-circ valve. £4.50


Another question; I have this Magnuson harness which has 3 ends to it (hopefully you can see in the photo).

A thick red wire ending in a ring terminal - I'm presuming this is the live feed as it runs through the inline fuse first?
A thin black wire also ending in a ring terminal - presuming this is the ground?
A yellow wire with bare end - not sure what this is for, could it be a switched live???  Anybody know please???


Finally, the piping from compressor outlet pipe, through CC and in to TB will be no more than this (nice and short  s:D :D s:D , needs cutting down actually).  Support clamp at end of CC where it will be running down due to difference in height of TB and comp pipe outlet and of course no BOV/BPV as no space to fit one  s:? :? s:? .


Now I've listed eveything it looks like quite a bit of stuff to get fitted  s:shock: :shock: s:shock: .


[size=85]The famous Walter Rohrl once said "Stay away from rear-wheel-drive cars unless.......", I had to agree on one particular occasion, but we did live happily ever after (apart from the trousers, they were a write off).

muffdan

#32
looks like the yellow wire is for a switch. It triggers the relay. Not sure if you need to ground it or show it 12v to activate it though. Should be clear looking at how the relay is wired, or by using a multimeter to check for continuity between the yellow and either the black or red.

Looks like you've got a good set of kit there, bet there'll be something you've overlooked though  s:) :) s:)  Good luck with it!
Jason
[size=80]\'00 Cape Green MR2 with Hard top, A/C & Leather - SP Turbo - 320bhp[/size]
[size=100]AEM - [/size][size=96]ARP - [/size][size=92]Crower - [/size][size=88]Cusco - [/si

markiii

#33
hes right about the coolant

water works better you want just enough coolant so it won't freeze

remember hot side of air feed to coldest side of the water feed
Gallardo Spyder<br />Ex Midnight Blue 911 T4S<br />EX VXR220<br />Ex Custom Turbo 2001 Sahara Sun MR2 Roadster 269bp, 240lbft<br /><br />MR2ROC Committee 2002 - 2009<br /><br />

AC

#34
Quote from: "markiii"remember hot side of air feed to coldest side of the water feed

Is that the same as TB end, as AVT advised cold line into TB end that way the air leaving the CC going into engine will be coolest?

Mark, have you got any idea's on the harness question I pictured above, specifically the yellow wire?  Jason thinks it is a switched feed, did you have one/same on your pump install?


[size=85]The famous Walter Rohrl once said "Stay away from rear-wheel-drive cars unless.......", I had to agree on one particular occasion, but we did live happily ever after (apart from the trousers, they were a write off).

markiii

#35
agreed it looks like a switching live for the relay

wire it so it comes on with the ignition
Gallardo Spyder<br />Ex Midnight Blue 911 T4S<br />EX VXR220<br />Ex Custom Turbo 2001 Sahara Sun MR2 Roadster 269bp, 240lbft<br /><br />MR2ROC Committee 2002 - 2009<br /><br />

loadswine

#36
That does seem like a similar wiring setup to my electric water pump controller.
Nice bits of kit there Andrew, it should be totally amazing when all installed and mapped up.   s8) 8) s8)
No Roadster any more, Golf 7.5 GTi Performance

Tags: