Smell of Oil, whining engine sound

markiii · March 12, 2004, 20:01

ref teh backpressure I must admit that baffles me. it may just be more waffle.

lack of oil would in itself make teh car feel sluggish as teh timing gear is oil pressure controlled.

ref the petrol theory, I get very confused to be honest by all teh stuff regarding octane and calorific value versus reistance to knock and all that. However, the cats are very heat sensitive, anything that cause the engine to burn hotter will excacerbate the problem.

markiii · March 12, 2004, 20:03

also interesting that the crack was in teh lft hand bank, that 3 now with teh problem on the klft and no damage to teh right.

Steve and I were discussing this the other night with regard to cylinder 1 running hotter due to the way teh fuel rail is put together and whethe this is connected.

adds more fuel to teh argument so to speak. :-) :-) :-)

Anonymous · March 12, 2004, 20:11

QuoteFunnily enough I can't seem to find a break down of what is in Optimax.

I imagine this will be a closely guarded secret as Shell will not want to give away their product's 'formula' so to speak.

I reckon they are trying to divert your attention away from your poor experience with their merchandise with the Optimax issue. I have used the stuff exclusively from new and am 26.7K and have no engine performance problems. Just a small issue of tracking down an irrating noise from elsewhere on lift-off ... damn T gremlins s:evil: :evil: s:evil:

I wonder what state the O2 sensors were in? They must surely show symptoms much like a sparkplug will do re: engine conditions.

Anonymous · March 12, 2004, 20:18

http://www.apbw47.dsl.pipex.com/O2.jpg

MRMike · March 12, 2004, 20:21

Well I presume they must have been okay..as it didn't throw any codes when I had it..that surprised me.

I know what you mean about Optimax Lusaka, it's just that two people..a mechanic on my dads car and now this guy has said about it. I'm not sure why out of the blue he said that..

Mark where is the fuel rain connected then?

Anonymous · March 12, 2004, 20:37

I getting serious fear now - our 2 has only ever been run on Optimax! I'll have to keep close scrutiny on ours until I change the header.

Anonymous · March 12, 2004, 20:47

T'is a tough one to prove on the petrol front.

Presuming no contamination on the O2 sensor to give a clue, maybe just a faulty pre-cat? s:? :? s:?

Fuel rail I believe sits above intake manifold on the far side of the engine as you are looking at it, but Mark knows quite a bit about the engine so should be able to put me right.

MRMike · March 12, 2004, 20:50

I wouldn't worry Rusty, it's just a thought I had..nothing definitive. I've bought Optimax on every occasion I filled up. To be honest I never thought about it..and just thought highest RON rating that'll do..but its not that simple. It worries me a bit that we don't know what the additives are to make it this RON, the most common one being Tetraethyl Lead which could potentially damage the cats.

Although as Mark said above, the pre-cat which seems to be going is the one which is closest to the hottest cylinder. If your using a higher octane performance fuel like optimax then you would assume that the RVP (reid pressure value) will be higher and thus the heat given off will be greater..and perhaps cause the problems in the pre cat..admittedly the heat difference between a regular fuel and a performance fuel would be negligible.

It's a tenuous link..but a link all the same

I know I won't put Optimax in again

markiii · March 12, 2004, 21:11

Quote from: "Mikeharper2"Well I presume they must have been okay..as it didn't throw any codes when I had it..that surprised me.

I know what you mean about Optimax Lusaka, it's just that two people..a mechanic on my dads car and now this guy has said about it. I'm not sure why out of the blue he said that..

Mark where is the fuel rain connected then?

the fuel rai has an input at teh far end, which means in theory fuel will get to some cylinders beter than others. Which could in theory see a cylinder getting less fuel than another.

however as the 02 sensors should compensate on closed loop, in open loop they take a nap. so it could be possible under wot that a cylinder gets less fuel than others and hence runs hotter.

there is a guy on SC who has had fabbed a replacement rail with a centre feed which is supposed to give better fuel dispersal, it laos is suitable for a return line conversion which some turbo kits require.

all speculation at this point.

MRMike · March 12, 2004, 21:26

Is this the same setup in the Celica 140? I presume the pre-cats would not be in the same place being front engined..are there still the pre-cat problems in the celica? If not that would indicate to me that your theory has an element of truth Mark

markiii · March 12, 2004, 21:39

The fuel rail on teh celica is identical.

the pre-cats aren't

the Celica is a LEV (Low emissions Vehicle) The roadster is a ULEV (Ultra Low Emmisions Vehicle)

as such the Celica manifold has no precats.

MRMike · March 12, 2004, 21:50

Sorry this may have been discussed before..so if you weren't in the market for a performance manifold, and just wanted to get rid of the pre-cats then presumably the Celica 140 manifold could be a direct replacement?

My point is that i don't want the pre-cats going again...I know they would have a warranty problem with a performance manifold..how could they have a warranty problem with a toyota part designed for the engine?

SteveJ · March 12, 2004, 21:55

Quote from: "Mikeharper2"Sorry this may have been discussed before..so if you weren't in the market for a performance manifold, and just wanted to get rid of the pre-cats then presumably the Celica 140 manifold could be a direct replacement?

Nope - the shape of the manifold will be different due to a different engine bay layout

MRMike · March 12, 2004, 21:57

Damn..I thought that could have been an easy solution to my pre-cat woes

markiii · March 12, 2004, 21:58

as steve said will be different.

that on the 2zz celica fouls the rear crossmember and I assume so would the 1zz celica.

plus it has no o2 sensors in the manifold so you'd need a new ecu as well.

not good at £2000 or so.

easiest is to gut the stock manifold that would effect your warranty though.

MRMike · April 14, 2004, 14:52

Well after thinking my car was absolutely fine again..after having the pre-cats replaced as i've mentioned before, it seems a different set of syptoms are appearing.

There is no oil loss, unlike before, and the performance seems great..

But there are large deposits of white debris, akin to powder appearing in the tailpipes. Now the car has done..500 miles since they were replaced..they cannot surely be breaking up again? I presume it may be the remnants from the previous cat problems...

As I said there are no other problems..I think I'll buy an 02 socket and check them when I get chance..I wish the car was out of waranty so I could get rid of the buggers..

Anyways appologies for the crappy pic I don't have my cam software here to download a pic, so this is off my phone..Doesn't look good does it?

m http://www.SpyderMagazine.com/files/mikpic.jpg m

Cheers for any advice

GSB · April 14, 2004, 15:04

Take it back, The white debris is this stuff:

It could well be left over from your previous cat failure, but it could also be from a new event. My bet is that its debris from the old precat that is now boucing around in the main cat. It'll bounce around and break down due to vibration over time, (its extremely brittle - you can break bits off just touching it) and end up coming out of your exhasut as white dust. Not catastrophic by any means, but not good either

MRMike · April 14, 2004, 15:21

That mound of white powder reminds me of this...

Thanks for the info Grant, thats what i presumed it was also... given there are no other problems and symptoms i'm hoping its okay. I'll try and find an 02 socket and have a look myself tonight.

I'll arrange an appointement with Mr T as well, I predict another battle coming on.."white powder? thats just solidified emissions" or some similar rot

markiii · April 14, 2004, 15:59

if it is cat particles, then it could be the pre-cats or it could be the main cat.

either way I'd be wanting that replaced as well.

MRMike · April 14, 2004, 16:27

Well as you know Mark its had the pre-cats replaced, and was told that the main cat was fine..however at the time I mentioned I was sceptical. Still looking around for an 02 socket once I've checked the pre-cats i'll take it from there..I didn't realise the main cat was susceptible as well?

markiii · April 14, 2004, 18:21

the main cat isn't suceptable to the original problem, but if bits of pre-cat and oil get that far you can kill it. Whether it is made of teh same stuff I'm not sure, but with everything else they replaced they should have done teh main cat as well.

theres a few guys in teh states in teh same situation as you. not replacing teh main cat cause a repeat of teh problem and long termcost toyot more money .

MRMike · April 14, 2004, 19:45

Very true, thanks for the advice Mark