The Turbo the MR2 vs Just buy a faster car argument

[ChrisGB]

At £8 1/2Ks you are a long way into buy a better car budget. You need to love the mr2 a lot to spend that much on one. Bet it is a cracking drive though!

Heck, you can literally buy an older S2000 or Boxster for that money..

You can get low milage Yr 2000 S2000s for £7k, so for £8.5k you can get a 2002 ish one in good nick! Personally that's what I'd do, but I'm bias as I had one for a few years and I love them!

And I never had any problems with the handling (as it was mentioned in an earlier post). The only people that have problems with them are people that don't understand how to drive a rear wheel drive car properly! (just my opinion of course!)

Jimi

While I can see the mathematical logic in going for the Boxter or S2000, I reckon a 2GR-FE swap could be more fun to drive (and quicker) than either. For the price of the donor MR2 and the engine swap, you can get a reasonable high mile Boxter S or a nice S2000. The S2000 is a good engine in an average car IMO. I drove one before buying the MR2 and although the engine impressed, the steering was just plain odd / vague and the rear end felt ill at ease and not at all readable. I thought it was just that car, so tried another and it was no better. Nothing wrong with the handling as such, just not the involving drive the MR2 gives. Tried a Boxter too (though when I was looking, only very poor ones were coming in within my budget). Very grown up feel but not as flighty or nimble as the MR2. Of course both the Boxter and S2000 make good financial sense, the conversion is almost throwing money away, but the appeal remains.

As for turbo installs, the SP job is probably the best developed and refined out there. Should be fit and forget reliable, comes with warranty and gets the job done if turbo power is your thing. You can do it cheaper, but do you really want the hassle (and lost time) of ironing out the wrinkles of a less well developed kit?

Chris

[Thudd]

And I never had any problems with the handling (as it was mentioned in an earlier post). The only people that have problems with them are people that don't understand how to drive a rear wheel drive car properly! (just my opinion of course!)

Jimi

Admittedly this is third hand, but from reading up (eg in evo mag) there was a problem with the suspension/geometry on the earlier models which made them twitchy and unpredictable on the upper limit. This may have been sorted in the more recent cars, but I think the early cars are where the value is - Honda were still building them way after the sellby date.

 m http://www.evo.co.uk/carreviews/cargrou ... xster.html m
MR2 Turbo review:
 m http://www.evo.co.uk/carreviews/evocarr ... a_mr2.html m

They gave the S2k 4stars, the MR2 picked up 5.

I had a mate who ran an S2k and a Boxster2.5, and far preferred the Boxster.
If it were me, i'd take the S2k purely because of image hangups over Porsche ownership.

[Anonymous]

That was before the re-gradings, MR2 is only a 4 star car now.


Another thing I was thinking of last night (and Matt's going to feel in danger that I'm picking on him here but I'm really not, I promise!) is that while everyone who has seen the SP240 in action is agreed that it's a quick car, and there is no doubt that it is, look at all the other mods that are on there (nicked from Matt's sig, I'll pick out the ones that demonstrate my point):


2004 MR2 Roadster: SP-Racer - SP Turbo, SP de-cat, SP back box, SP sports clutch, SP12 wheels, R888s, AP 4-pots front, AP2-pots rear, SP adjustable sports suspension, TTE ARBs, SP front strut brace, reinforced rear brace, SP body reinforcement brace, Lotus Elise seats, Elise gear knob, Elise h/brake lever, OMP wheel, side scoops, rear spoiler, hardtop.


That's a very impressive list of mods right there, and they've been very well chosen to suit the car (indeed, I struggle to think of a better performance-based modified MR2 full stop, Matt's done a great job there) but that's what's going to give the most impressive performance on road or track. The tyres alone will be worth seconds, and with the bigger brakes you'll be able to stop in much shorter distances, and then you're on to the suspension and chassis mods... Like I said, it's just about as good as you can get and I'd love to have something like that. The extra power is of course welcome, but IMHO would be wasted without the extra goodies on there to make the car what it is. Chuck that little lot on an NA car and you'd be quicker than said Boxster S or S2000, but you'd keep the essence of what the MR2 is about.




There's making a faster car in a straight line, and then there's doing it where it matters. Any turbo'd MR2 will show an Elise a clean pair of heels on the motorway, but it's be left miles behind in the twisties where the fun is. My point is maybe that we could be talking about 'faster' and value for money in a wider sense than just outright speed.

[Thudd]

4.5 stars MR2 vs 4stars S2k according to the online knowledge, but that's splitting hairs and they're both good cars.
In the group test they criticise the pre-facelift MR2 for understeer leading to roll oversteer in a very similar way to the criticisms of the early S2k.
They're both good cars, improved by the facelift modifications.

I'm still more tempted by an Elise/VX, but my Wife is more likely to sign off on an S2k/Boxster etc   s:lol: :lol: s:lol:

[Anonymous]

Tbh you'd be better off with a Boxster than an Elise. I'd say it gives 85% of the drive but with 200% more comfort (although you have to factor in the 500% more likely to get the wanker sign than with the Elise!).

[aaronjb]

Any turbo'd MR2 will show an Elise a clean pair of heels on the motorway, but it's be left miles behind in the twisties where the fun is.

That depends on your definition of fun, though.. personally I rarely crank it round corners these days because (certainly on the roads I drive) you can never be sure there isn't a tractor/doddery old fool just around the blind bend that you'll run into at great speed.

Sure, sometimes I do, but I'm far far below 10/10ths when I'm doing it with the way my '2 is set up (granted that's a bit different from stock  s:oops: :oops: s:oops:  ) and these days I think I'd like something that still corners decently, but has more point & squirt on the straights..

'course if money was no object I'd get something that did both..  s:) s:)

[Anonymous]

Sounds to me like you're just getting old  s;) s;)

[aaronjb]

Could be.. plus I pretty much only drive to & from work when there's plenty of other traffic to make the country lanes 40mph maximum the whole way (if you're lucky) - if I'd get enough money back from breaking the MR-2 and selling it as a standard car, I'd buy something sensible I think.

[stargazer30]

I don't think I need to upgrade the handling on my 05 Mr2.  The stock setup can handle corners faster than I can   s:D s:D .  My bottle goes before the front/rear end does in the dry and I don't push it in the wet.  Maybe when I've had more experience in it and/or done some track day style driver training that'll change.

[Anonymous]

If that's the case, then in all honesty the last thing you need is more power.

[MattPerformance]

If that's the case, then in all honesty the last thing you need is more power.

I think his point is about wanting to challenge the car's limits, which, in a mid-engined car requires a good deal of skill, regardless of the engine power.  Having more power enhances the driving pleasure considerably (in my opinion and experience) even well within the limits of the car.

As for the SP-Racer mods, I completely agree... the car has a range of mods aimed at making it MUCH faster than it has any right to be and it works.  Your flattery as to how well executed the mods are is most welcome (  s:D s:D  ) since it illustrates how well we do things here... including our turbo kits   s:wink: :wink: s:wink:

[Thudd]

Can't you just fit teflon tyres, and get the effects of more speed and power, but at 30mph?   s:wink: :wink: s:wink:

[stargazer30]

If that's the case, then in all honesty the last thing you need is more power.

For cornering I agree, The cars handling is superb.  For public road driving its fast enough/sticks enough.  But that's not what turbos are about really are they.  I mean I could save myself a fair but of cash vs a turbo and just stick a 2ZZ in and get near 200bhp.  But I'd still be reving the nuts off its on motorways.  Nope for me the turbo is about torque, better straight line acceleration and better pick up in the higher gears.  Best of both worlds, a sporty car that corners like its on rails and still goes like a little rocket on the straights.

[OlberJ]

Nope for me the turbo is about torque, better straight line acceleration and better pick up in the higher gears.  Best of both worlds, a sporty car that corners like its on rails and still goes like a little rocket on the straights.

Sure that's not a V6 you're describing?

[mrzwei]

Then chip the turbo   s:lol: :lol: s:lol:   My Saab went from 240nm to 320nm and 150hp to 210hp just on a stage 1. Not massive by todays standards but still enough for me. Forced me to mod the suspention and brakes.

[lemans]

Nope I need a reliable turbo upgrade, so it will be the SP package + new clutch + there 40,000 mile warrenty.  I'm sure this HASS kit is a bargain but if I had probs I'm up north so no specialists here and I'm not mechanical enough to fix it myself.

Exactly why I went for the SP package.  Just do a search on this club for the issues people have had fitting s/h turbos to their cars!  s:twisted: :twisted: s:twisted:  

Also my MR2 is a facelift with better bracing etc so some of the other mods on Matt's car won't be needed?? or may not make so much difference.  Once you have the turbo package the other handling mods can easily/cheaply be added as and when you feel you need them/funds/wife (delete as applicable) allows.  s:lol: :lol: s:lol:

[stargazer30]

Nope for me the turbo is about torque, better straight line acceleration and better pick up in the higher gears.  Best of both worlds, a sporty car that corners like its on rails and still goes like a little rocket on the straights.

Sure that's not a V6 you're describing?

May as well be, the V6 puts out about 10ft/lbs extra torque than the base turbo package SP does.  I think the higher BHP package will put out a bit more though.  It would be good to see a dyno graph of each to see how the turbo compares across the rev range as from what I hear the V6 torque is on tap the whole way   s:D s:D

[OlberJ]

The only issue with the graphs is that no V6 install is standard. They all have a different exhaust, different intakes and different transmissions to what you see on a Camry. So it's hard to say that's what you're getting everytime, it's 99% of the time more than the stock graphs show. In for an RR on the 10th April so i'll see what i can come up with.

2.5k to 6.5k full torque on the standard graph though.

2GR is just mental but pricey.

[ChrisGB]

For cornering I agree, The cars handling is superb.  For public road driving its fast enough/sticks enough.  But that's not what turbos are about really are they.  I mean I could save myself a fair but of cash vs a turbo and just stick a 2ZZ in and get near 200bhp.  But I'd still be reving the nuts off its on motorways.  Nope for me the turbo is about torque, better straight line acceleration and better pick up in the higher gears.  Best of both worlds, a sporty car that corners like its on rails and still goes like a little rocket on the straights.

You think you would save some cash doing a 2zz? To do it properly, you are probably looking at at least as much as going turbo. To do it properly, parts wise, you need an engine and gearbox, a bit of wiring, an intake system, a good exhaust manifold, race cat and free flowing exhaust system and of course the gear selector and engine mount mods. But you don't want to lose the LSD from the stock car, so you change that over (labour costs) and while splitting the gearbox from the engine it would be silly not to pop a lightweight flywheel and new clutch in. If you wanted quiet motorway cruising, I wonder if you could swap the 6th gears over, or 5th from the 1zz as 6th in the 2zz?

With a relatively basic engine swap coming in around 3K, plus a good manifold / cat / exhaust / inlet / flywheel / clutch / Accusump / possibly piggyback, you are heading toward 5K+. You could definitely do it for less, but you may as well maximise what is there. Then you can always boost the 2zz later  s:lol: :lol: s:lol:  

While I agree that the stock MR2 handles pretty well, with 200+ horses under your right foot, you are going to need some structural reinforcement. I would seriously consider the SP underbody brace and anything that can be done to stabilise the lower suspension mount points at the back as a minimum. There is no real fun in just having straight line pace, much more fun seeing how much of it you can use in the corners. Stiffening the shell up a bit really helps with this.

I think that with all things power, you never have enough. Even with really big mods and power, you get used to it and start looking for more. I remember a friend of mine getting the quickest bike money could buy many years back. His first impression was that it was so fast that you could never use all the power it had on the road. 3 months later he was looking at cams, exhausts, carb work etc.

I still reckon the SP setup will suit your needs well. Me, I am starting down a very different path  s:wink: :wink: s:wink:  

Chris

[stargazer30]

Well I test drove a Honda S2000 today, same year as my MR2 a 2005, slightly higher miles at 43K.  I wanted to be sure I'm making the right decision turboing the 2 and the S2000 is the next best option next to the Boxter S which is just too expensive.

I was very tempted to buy this car I have to say.  Its not that quick until you get into the VTEC band and then it just flys.  Feels well planted on the road, has a boot, no rattles, really good handling, and the roofs electric.   The short shift gear stick feels notchy at first but its actually really good after driving it a bit.  I didn't think I would fit in it with the centre column being so wide but no worries, pretty comfy once your in it.

Got back in the MR2 to drive home and on the first bend I felt different, theres something about the MR2 when you drive it thats just special.  Maybe its the go kart light steering or the mid engined feel to it but as much as the S2000 impressed I'm keeping the MR2!  I can live with the rattly interior.

[aaronjb]

See, that's what worries me.. I really would like an S2K as my 'next car', but I wonder if anything will really live up to the fun factor of the '2..

Maybe if I fixed all the niggles with the '2 I'd feel better about it (like the dents in every single drivers side bodypanel thanks to other careless parkers!)  s:? :? s:?

Maybe I can have both.. if I win the lottery  s:lol: :lol: s:lol:

[ChrisGB]

This is the quandary anyone going away from the MR2 faces. The bottom line is that the MR2 is a very good drivers car indeed. The chassis is very nicely balanced and provides a nice level of interaction for the driver. It may not be the fastest thing on the planet, but what it does at the price it does it is still special. Adding a turbo, supercharger, or more powerful engine will change the character of the car a bit, but it is still an excellent drivers car. Adding good bracing enhances the good characteristics even further.

Not the best car in the world for sure, but when you look at it in terms of smiles per pound, there is not much around that does better without spending a lot more. Boost it or 2zz / V6 it and it still looks like good value in the grin factor analysis.

Chris

[loadswine]

Smiles per pound, that's the stuff Chris.   s:D s:D

[stargazer30]

Okay decision made!  I'm going for the SP Turbo + New Clutch   s:D s:D    s:D s:D    s:D s:D    s:D s:D

[muffdan]

which package?