The Turbo the MR2 vs Just buy a faster car argument

[Anonymous]

Unless you're loaded or really, really, really love the car and want to keep it forever, or are simply addicted to modding, then always buy a better car as it'll almost always be quicker. I learnt that the hard way.

You can put as much power through the wheels of the MR2 as you want, but you won't necessarily make it a better car. Having driven '2s of varying power over the years, I've personally found that about 200bhp feels right for the car. Any more and you're holding on rather than driving due to the limitations of a shorter wheelbase and a more relaxed chassis compared to something like an Elise.

[Anonymous]

Unless you're loaded or really, really, really love the car and want to keep it forever, or are simply addicted to modding, then always buy a better car as it'll almost always be quicker. I learnt that the hard way.

You can put as much power through the wheels of the MR2 as you want, but you won't necessarily make it a better car. Having driven '2s of varying power over the years, I've personally found that about 200bhp feels right for the car. Any more and you're holding on rather than driving due to the limitations of a shorter wheelbase and a more relaxed chassis compared to something like an Elise.

Well put Dan - I think you've hit the nail on the head there. I'm the second of the above - well I think most people know that any way   s:lol: :lol: s:lol:  

V6 - OK it's an option but you change the car totally from a well balanced machine to a unknown point and squirt - hey it's whatever your passion is I think.

Rob

[loadswine]

V6 - OK it's an option but you change the car totally from a well balanced machine to a unknown point and squirt - hey it's whatever your passion is I think.

Rob

That is totally inaccurate. V6 conversions don't become just point and squirt. Balance is altered , yes,and tendency is for greater understeer on slower corners but it still handles well. A good geo setup and bracing are essential to get the best from it. At higher speeds it actually feels more stable.
To underline what Olie had said earlier, the conversion isn't just about that, its about a more relaxed drive when you want it as well. There isn't often the opportunity to go very fast on our roads, so a good torque spread at almost any revs is nice to have.
I am sure the nicely modded 1zz engine is an absolute hoot and I know the turbos are as well.
I love stock roadsters as well, but I think if you don't come from that sort of starting point, there is no value in going the modded route, go straight to buying a "better car".
I think Dan does have a very good point and has advocated getting a better car in place of mods for a while now, but a great many people really like the character of the Roadster, me included, and have stuck with it due to its charm.
( yes it isn't always financially the best way to go!   s:lol: :lol: s:lol:  )

[OlberJ]

V6 - OK it's an option but you change the car totally from a well balanced machine to a unknown point and squirt

You should come and have a shot of mine. Major misconception that it changes the car like that.

It's still extremely well balanced.

[stargazer30]

Hey guys, thanks for the inputs.

I'd go for a turbo rather than pursuing NA tuning.  I prefer boost to screaming engines thats all.  I did look at a 2zz swap before turbo as its cheaper and will still see near 200bhp but it was the high reving/low torque that put me off, same thing that puts me off the Honda S2000 which has the same sort of engine.  Also 2ZZ had a few side effects like no imobiliser once fitted (my insurance would freak at that).  Didn't look at a V6 but that must be some serious weight in the rear right?

Being the sad person I am on data I've worked out the BHP/weight ratio and torque/weight ratio of the turbo'd 2 vs the other cars in the same sort of league and even at 200bhp and the lower torque its quicker on paper than the others.  The 240bhp/high torque MR2s must be utterly nuts!  Also I really like the idea of having a sleeper, something I can park at the local supermarket and no-one would look at it twice   s:twisted: :twisted: s:twisted:

[OlberJ]

1MZ is 170kg's. Unsure of the weight of a 1zz.

I need to get one of those scales that measure with a hook. Can't remember the name of them but they use a similar thing for weighing fish   s:lol: :lol: s:lol:  

Anywho's i'd urge you to try one and actually feel how little difference the V6 makes. If you want an engine you don't have to rev the nuts off, the V6 is perfect, full go from 2.5k revs.

You'd be amazed how much a turbo, intercooler and plumbing weighs!

[Anonymous]

V6 - OK it's an option but you change the car totally from a well balanced machine to a unknown point and squirt

You should come and have a shot of mine. Major misconception that it changes the car like that.

It's still extremely well balanced.

The thing is once you've done it that's it no going back, unlike a turbo / N/A you can just revert it back to stock if you want.

I've seen Nigel's car, looks and sounds fantasic but it's not my cup of tea - and that's the whole point about this, the OP asked a question he's got his own ideas, we did have a slight topic drift but I think in the end the question has been answered - buy a faster car  s:lol: :lol: s:lol:    s:lol: :lol: s:lol:  .

If I wanted a 6 cyl then I would go TVR - hey but that's me.  s:wink: :wink: s:wink:  

Rob.

[stargazer30]

Erm no, I'm not convinced buying a faster car is the best option so far.  Infact I'm leaning toward the turbo route   s:D s:D  

BTW does anyone know if the SP turbo kit uses the stock manifold or is it replaced?  I was going to get the precats out but if the manifold is replaced then it would be a waste of time.  I know my cobra cat back will still be okay had asked about that.

[markiii]

every kit replaces teh manifold

[Anonymous]

No, of course the manifold doesn't stay. Where do you think the turbo would go?

[muffdan]

The SP kit (as does all turbo kits) replaces the stock manifold with a custom one. The SP (and TTE) kit uses a cast manifold. This doesn't have the reliability issues connected with the welded steel versions the other kits use.

Find a local member who has a turbo'd 2 and I'm sure they'll give you a spin in it. That'll make your mind up  s:) s:)  Or talk to SP and I'm sure they'll let you take a ride in the SP-Racer.

[Mike68]

I don't think buying a faster car is the way to go personally, you end up with just another car, there's no enjoyment getting it there. Take the kit car enthusiasts for example, it would be quicke and easier to buy a production car but no, to modify a car is a personal thing and this must be more rewarding than going out and buying a car.

I was thinking about the elise route but have a change of heart, putting a turbo on my car is being considered at the moment, the wife just needs convincing.

[mrzwei]

 s:lol: :lol: s:lol:   I wouldn't mention that if I were you, just an impromptu night out a Pizza Express or somewhere.

[stargazer30]

Oh I thought the turbo went in between the manifold and the cat, as I know the SP kit shortens the stock cat a little.  Got it now the turbo is built into the manifold   s:oops: :oops: s:oops:  No need to remove my pre-cats then   s:D s:D  

As for convincing the wife - you could try my mates approach, just do it and then deny everything, hmm what turbo? its not turbo'd it always drives like that   s:lol: :lol: s:lol:    It worked from him till he wanted his elevenses, what do you mean I had it last night, no I didn't?  yes you did, doh!

[muffdan]

You were right first time. The turbo sits between the manifold and the exhaust. Kits can't use the stock manifold though because it's exhaust port won't match up to the turbo's exhaust inlet port. Generic turbo's are built to a standard port specification, like T2, T3 or T4. A turbo kit replaces the stock manifold with one that has a matching standard exhaust port for the turbo of choice, so they will bolt together.

[ChrisGB]

I think Dan nailed it. If you really love the way the '2 drives, adding more power is a good thing to do. How much depends on how deep your pockets are and how many reliability compromises you want to make. Turbo up to around the 200bhp mark is nice to drive and suits the car really well. Going significantly further runs you into torque numbers that can shorten the life of the gearbox. Lots and lots of power needs a bigger turbo, so some effects on throttle response, particularly in part throttle situations and you can regard the stock gearbox as a consumable.

You can go the N/A route. It is usually simple enough (when it all works out, unlike my build at the moment) but you wont get that lazy mid range stomp a turbo gives you with even the best set up. This is less intrusive than a turbo conversion and does not add any weight (even took a lot off with my mods), cheaper to do and still makes for a nice drive.

Engine swap is getting a bit more serious. 2zz is manic, so more gears, more revs, just my sort of thing, but the opposite of the turbo in character. V6 adds some weight and is a properly big mod, but you get power and a decent noise to go with it. Deep pockets for engine swaps.

I love the way the '2 drives, so am happy to spend a tidy sum making it go faster. I like the frenetic element of wringing out a high revving engine and am seriously considering 2zz at the moment. Turbo is not an option for my preferences. I like the mid engined balance and manners of the car, so replacing it with something that gives me a similar balance but is faster is difficult. Really, the logical next step if a good torque delivery is your thing, is the VX220 turbo / VXR220. But these are more hard core than the '2 in some ways.

From what the OP has said, I reckon a turbo would fit the bill nicely.

Chris

[mrzwei]

This is just a personal opinion but the alternative options are Lotus, Porsche or VX. The MR2 probably sits at the bottom of the pack at the moment but trumps the MX5 and the MGF. MR2, silver, with hardtop lasted about a day at the garage down the road as did a red Boxter at just under 20 grand with a plastic rear screen. I think you should go for the car.

[stargazer30]

Okay heres the probs with the different car route..

Boxter S
Finding one with a good history and in good condition in the price range difficult, most expensive of the bunch
silly repair and maintenance costs due to no access to engine
plastic rear screen WTF!
sky high insurance
highly likely it will get keyed in Sunderland

S2000
Best of the bunch but a group 20 insurance again
iffy handling apparently?
low torque, high reving engine
hard to find locally, hens teeth these

BMW Z4
Most of these are 2.0, 2.2s so under powered
3.0 apparently front heavy given weight of engine
2.5L is the one to go for but not many up here, expensive to buy
expensive maintenance again
group 19 insurance like the boxter

VX220
nope sorry its just ugly, don't care how good they are I couldn't buy one

MX5
Would need turboing anyway so may as well turbo the 2.

[mrzwei]

 s:lol: :lol: s:lol:   In a way, I think you have answered your own question.

[Mike68]

What about lotus, exige or elise?

[ChrisGB]

What about lotus, exige or elise?

Need the supercharged versions if torque is your thing.

Chris

[Anonymous]

Said it earlier, saying it again. If you want an orange, buy an orange, not an apple and some paint.

[DannyN]

Markii already answered the original question with reply No. 4

if your not bored with the car yet (other than power)

and don't mind the learning experience that comes with a Turbo then turbo it

you'll get most of your cash back by splitting when you sell

if you want fit and forget simplicity

buy another car

edited by me to help Wills out   s:D s:D  



Simples   s:wink: :wink: s:wink:  



Or in Laymans terms, listen to Craig >>>>>

Said it earlier, saying it again. If you want an orange, buy an orange, not an apple and some paint.

[ChrisGB]

Said it earlier, saying it again. If you want an orange, buy an orange, not an apple and some paint.

All well and good if you can afford just the right orange. Alternative is to buy an apple and make it as close to the orange that you can afford. Or it may even work out better than the orange you could not afford if it all works out well.

For the combination of mid engined dynamics, practicality and price of a turbocharged (or supercharged) MR2, you will not get anything else in the price range. Boxters that are in the price range will be well leggy and give power to weight that is not really any better, or even as much as a well sorted '2. Lotus don't do anything with a torquey engine in that price range or even remotely near it. No one else does a mid engined practical car in that price range full stop. Closest you will get to what the OP wants is the VX220 turbo starting at around £13,000. You can build a lot of MR2 performance for that money and you get a heater that works and a roof that is waterproof.

I really like the idea of a '2 with more power. It is what the car should have had from the factory. I would agree that in many cases, it is just easier and better to buy a faster car, but with a modded MR2, you can have your cake and eat it.

Chris

[cclarke99]

- off topic a bit but I've had two attempts at test driving a Boxster S and neither dealer would let me based on my appearance/age!

Just as well really as if you'd driven the Boxster, you'd have found that it does all the MR2 does, only better, so you'd have bought one and this interesting thread would not have started

As for bikes vs cars they may acelerate fast but most of those riding them just don't seem to know how to get round bends