120mph Restriction

Started by scottee, March 13, 2004, 20:32

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juansolo

#50
Anyone know the ratios for a '03 6 speed?
[size=75]Porsche Cayman - Curvy (almost) perfection
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juansolo

#51
Quote from: "vibratingsky"HOWEVER! the rev limit on the MR2 is 6750rpm

In which case @ 6750:

1st  -  36.9 mph   2691 rpm drop
2nd -  61.4 mph   2106 rpm drop
3rd -  89.2 mph   1757 rpm drop
4th - 120.6 mph   1073 rpm drop
5th - 148.7 mph  

rev      36 mph

Actually makes more sense as manufacturers tend to do this to optimise the 0-60 figure.  Sadly this is what sells cars.
[size=75]Porsche Cayman - Curvy (almost) perfection
Juno SSE-CN - Bonkers track thing
Mercedes 190E - Das Uberbarge still going strong[/size]

Anonymous

#52
Quote from: "vibratingsky"HOWEVER! the rev limit on the MR2 is 6750rpm, so 2nd gear should get you to 60mph   s:D :D s:D  
This is interesting though, keep it coming!
FYI my 131mph was at 6500rpm but the incline was downward a little, although this must be approaching the 5-gear versions highests speeds, I'd guess 135mph? even with if i had 200bhp (I guess I have 150bhp/ton with my mods).

If you gut the cats, will this invalidate my insurance? shurely this equates to a 5% power increase (serious business!)

Who is going to know? You can leave everything intact; just take out the interior.
 And in what regards polution, you are equal to a car with a TRD header. They don't have pre-cats.

juansolo

#53
Quote from: "pp"shurely this equates to a 5% power increase (serious business!)

Not neccessarily.  Taking cats out and fitting filters does not neccessarily increase power on it's own.  In fact in some circumstances it can do the opposite.  Improving a cars breathing (at both ends) really needs to be done in conjunction with a mappable/piggy back ECU with set up on a rolling road to get any significant and noticable (other than making it noisier) gains.
[size=75]Porsche Cayman - Curvy (almost) perfection
Juno SSE-CN - Bonkers track thing
Mercedes 190E - Das Uberbarge still going strong[/size]

Anonymous

#54
could you work out the speeds for the MRS gearbox which i think is the same as US?

juansolo

#55
Anyone know the ratios?
[size=75]Porsche Cayman - Curvy (almost) perfection
Juno SSE-CN - Bonkers track thing
Mercedes 190E - Das Uberbarge still going strong[/size]

MRMike

#56
Mark posted them on the bottom of this thread..

 m http://www.mr2roc.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=3079 m
[size=75]*Sold 03 UK spec, silver, Red Interior TTE Twin, Euro spoiler, TTE Chrome roll bar, Blitz Induction, VVTI Badged, Pioneer SAT Nav/DAB Tuner, Boston Acoustics Components, Boston amp, Gtech Pro C, TRD Gearknob, B&M linkage, Bama Deflector, Chrome dials, Corky Breast Plate, TTE springs,

Then.. Blue 350Z
and den....black S2000 with red leather interior  
and den.... New Imola Orange S2000
and den.....BMW Z4 3.0 - Understeer!!!![/size]
NOW M3 V8

juansolo

#57
2003+ 6 speed box

mph @ 6750rpm
1st - 36.5 mph
2nd - 60.7 mph
3rd - 88.2 mph
4th - 119.3 mph
5th - 141.8 mph
6th - 159.5 mph

rpm drop on shift
1st-2nd  2691 rpm
2nd-3rd  2106 rpm
3rd-4th  1757 rpm
4th-5th  1073 rpm
5th-6th  745 rpm

Pre 2003 5 speed box

mph @ 6750rpm
1st - 36.9 mph
2nd - 61.4 mph
3rd - 89.2 mph
4th - 120.6 mph
5th - 148.7 mph

rpm drop on shift
1st-2nd - 2691 rpm
2nd-3rd - 2106 rpm
3rd-4th - 1757 rpm
4th-5th - 1073 rpm

All figures based on standard wheel and tyre sizes.  Calulations made using Race Technology's Gear Calculator.
http://www.race-technology.com/WebPage2/Other/Utilities/GearCalculations/GearCalculation.html

What you have in a nutshell is the exact same ratios 1st through to 5th and the same final drive, Toyota have simply strapped another cog to it.  The the small speed difference is down to the change in wheel size.
[size=75]Porsche Cayman - Curvy (almost) perfection
Juno SSE-CN - Bonkers track thing
Mercedes 190E - Das Uberbarge still going strong[/size]

Anonymous

#58
Quote from: "juansolo"What you have in a nutshell is the exact same ratios 1st through to 5th and the same final drive, Toyota have simply strapped another cog to it.  The the small speed difference is down to the change in wheel size.

Like you, when I read the numbers that the ratios were all the same with an extra gear on the top.  

The numbers you quote show the pre-03 reaching a higher speed in each gear than the 03-.  This would make sense if the rolling radius of the 15" rears fitted to the earlier cars was greater than the 16" wheels fitted to the facelifted ones.  Surely this is not correct?

Thanks,
Andy

MRMike

#59
If you look at the GTECH speed file here, it seems as though my car reaches 65 mph in 2nd, of course the GTECH is not 100% accurate..

 m http://www.SpyderMagazine.com/files/MR2 ... Tspeed.jpg m
[size=75]*Sold 03 UK spec, silver, Red Interior TTE Twin, Euro spoiler, TTE Chrome roll bar, Blitz Induction, VVTI Badged, Pioneer SAT Nav/DAB Tuner, Boston Acoustics Components, Boston amp, Gtech Pro C, TRD Gearknob, B&M linkage, Bama Deflector, Chrome dials, Corky Breast Plate, TTE springs,

Then.. Blue 350Z
and den....black S2000 with red leather interior  
and den.... New Imola Orange S2000
and den.....BMW Z4 3.0 - Understeer!!!![/size]
NOW M3 V8

mph

#60
I think the rev limiter is higher than 6750. I've done 150mph (see elsewhere for details) and wasn't quite at red line at that point.
[size=92]Martin[/size][size=75]
'06 Black MR2 Roadster
'03 Red Lotus Elise 111S
'01 Black MR2 Roadster SMT turbo[/size]

Anonymous

#61
Quote from: "mph"I think the rev limiter is higher than 6750.

That's what I thought too... but I'm not near my car to check.

Peter Laborne

#62
Quote from: "phil4"
Quote from: "mph"I think the rev limiter is higher than 6750.

That's what I thought too.

I've just been to check and the redline does start at 6750. Though I am sure the rev limiter comes on a little after this.

Anonymous

#63
Quote from: "juansolo"
Quote from: "pp"shurely this equates to a 5% power increase (serious business!)

Not neccessarily.  Taking cats out and fitting filters does not neccessarily increase power on it's own.  In fact in some circumstances it can do the opposite.  Improving a cars breathing (at both ends) really needs to be done in conjunction with a mappable/piggy back ECU with set up on a rolling road to get any significant and noticable (other than making it noisier) gains.

 HEY! ...  s:? :? s:?  I didn't say that. About the rest you are right.

 But I can tell you from personal experience that if you have a Mr2 with a TTE exhaust and gut the pre-cats, you got a very noticeable increase in torque and some increase in HPs. I have recently made almost non stop 3000km with the car, only with the TTE exhaust, then gutted the pre-cats, and have done again 3000km, back home. I can guarantee you that it was like a new car, mainly in the 6 gear, that becomes a real gear, and not only an overdrive.  s:P :P s:P  

And I was not expecting any performance improvement, when I get ride of the pre-cats. I have done that as a preventive measure against problems in the engine.  s:shock: :shock: s:shock:

Tem

#64
Quote from: "Peter Laborne"I've just been to check and the redline does start at 6750. Though I am sure the rev limiter comes on a little after this.

I guess the limiter is at 6900rpm...I have several dynoruns where the graph cuts off between 6910-6920rpm.
Sure you can live without 500hp, but it\'s languishing.

MRMike

#65
Quote from: "Peter Laborne"
Quote from: "phil4"
Quote from: "mph"I think the rev limiter is higher than 6750.

That's what I thought too.

I've just been to check and the redline does start at 6750. Though I am sure the rev limiter comes on a little after this.

I think it comes on after 7000, not sure exactly where.  I have a graph charting revs and it shows 7150 and that wasn't at the limiter. The revs are set up exactly on my GTECH incidentally.

 m http://www.SpyderMagazine.com/files/revs.jpg m
[size=75]*Sold 03 UK spec, silver, Red Interior TTE Twin, Euro spoiler, TTE Chrome roll bar, Blitz Induction, VVTI Badged, Pioneer SAT Nav/DAB Tuner, Boston Acoustics Components, Boston amp, Gtech Pro C, TRD Gearknob, B&M linkage, Bama Deflector, Chrome dials, Corky Breast Plate, TTE springs,

Then.. Blue 350Z
and den....black S2000 with red leather interior  
and den.... New Imola Orange S2000
and den.....BMW Z4 3.0 - Understeer!!!![/size]
NOW M3 V8

Anonymous

#66
Quote from: "juansolo"Anyone know the ratios?

Take a look at:

 m http://www.spyderchat.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=144 m

Tem

#67
Quote from: "MRMike"I think it comes on after 7000, not sure exactly where.  I have a graph charting revs and it shows 7150 and that wasn't at the limiter.

Is that from your car...? Or from someone with PowerFC or similar that can change the limiter? There are few guys at SC who have their limiter above 7000rpm, but I'm pretty sure it's not there on a stock car.
Sure you can live without 500hp, but it\'s languishing.

MRMike

#68
No thats my car TEM standard bar intake/exhaust. The consensus on Spyderchat seems to be 7000 rpm cut off, is the fuel cut off the same in all gears? RPM peak in 2nd seems to be bang on 7000rpm. Though i can't imagine why they would have a longer limiter in first?
[size=75]*Sold 03 UK spec, silver, Red Interior TTE Twin, Euro spoiler, TTE Chrome roll bar, Blitz Induction, VVTI Badged, Pioneer SAT Nav/DAB Tuner, Boston Acoustics Components, Boston amp, Gtech Pro C, TRD Gearknob, B&M linkage, Bama Deflector, Chrome dials, Corky Breast Plate, TTE springs,

Then.. Blue 350Z
and den....black S2000 with red leather interior  
and den.... New Imola Orange S2000
and den.....BMW Z4 3.0 - Understeer!!!![/size]
NOW M3 V8

Tem

#69
Quote from: "MRMike"No thats my car TEM standard bar intake/exhaust. The consensus on Spyderchat seems to be 7000 rpm cut off, is the fuel cut off the same in all gears? RPM peak in 2nd seems to be bang on 7000rpm. Though i can't imagine why they would have a longer limiter in first?

Maybe it takes a while for the limiter to kick in...? It doesn't take that long to go from 6900rpm to 7100rpm on 1st  s8) 8) s8)

The dyno runs I mentioned earlier are probably done on 4th...
Sure you can live without 500hp, but it\'s languishing.

MRMike

#70
Yeah that could possibly be it..like you say in each subsequent gear the revs will travel slower.

It's a simple fuel cut off as well isn't as opposed to an electronic limiter, so you could go effectively go over slightly?
[size=75]*Sold 03 UK spec, silver, Red Interior TTE Twin, Euro spoiler, TTE Chrome roll bar, Blitz Induction, VVTI Badged, Pioneer SAT Nav/DAB Tuner, Boston Acoustics Components, Boston amp, Gtech Pro C, TRD Gearknob, B&M linkage, Bama Deflector, Chrome dials, Corky Breast Plate, TTE springs,

Then.. Blue 350Z
and den....black S2000 with red leather interior  
and den.... New Imola Orange S2000
and den.....BMW Z4 3.0 - Understeer!!!![/size]
NOW M3 V8

juansolo

#71
Quote from: "pp"
Quote from: "juansolo"
Quote from: "pp"shurely this equates to a 5% power increase (serious business!)

Not neccessarily.  Taking cats out and fitting filters does not neccessarily increase power on it's own.  In fact in some circumstances it can do the opposite.  Improving a cars breathing (at both ends) really needs to be done in conjunction with a mappable/piggy back ECU with set up on a rolling road to get any significant and noticable (other than making it noisier) gains.

 HEY! ...  s:? :? s:?  I didn't say that. About the rest you are right.

 But I can tell you from personal experience that if you have a Mr2 with a TTE exhaust and gut the pre-cats, you got a very noticeable increase in torque and some increase in HPs. I have recently made almost non stop 3000km with the car, only with the TTE exhaust, then gutted the pre-cats, and have done again 3000km, back home. I can guarantee you that it was like a new car, mainly in the 6 gear, that becomes a real gear, and not only an overdrive.  s:P :P s:P  

And I was not expecting any performance improvement, when I get ride of the pre-cats. I have done that as a preventive measure against problems in the engine.  s:shock: :shock: s:shock:

Absolutely.  It wasn't a dig.  It was just a point not to believe the power claims people make for air filters and the like as for the most part they exaggerate a little.  Conversely it's perfectly reasonable to see a real and noticable increase from replacing an overly restrictive stock exahaust for example.  

The problem with it is you don't know who to believe.  Unless you R/R the car before and after, you'll never really know.  The problem then is trying to find a set of rollers ran by someone who hasn't got a vested interest in them reading a little high...

yes, yes I am deeply cynical   s:wink: :wink: s:wink:
[size=75]Porsche Cayman - Curvy (almost) perfection
Juno SSE-CN - Bonkers track thing
Mercedes 190E - Das Uberbarge still going strong[/size]

Anonymous

#72
Quote from: "juansolo"
Quote from: "pp"
Quote from: "juansolo"
Quote from: "pp"shurely this equates to a 5% power increase (serious business!)



yes, yes I am deeply cynical   s:wink: :wink: s:wink:


Well, you really didn't  understand me.

YOU HAVE QUOTED ME WRONG. IT WAS ANOTHER GUY THAT HAS SAID THAT THING ABOUT 5% POWER INCREASE, NOT ME.

I think you can not gain 7hp in a header. Probably you get more torque than HPs.

Tem

#73
Quote from: "pp"I think you can not gain 7hp in a header.

I think it's possible. Check the dyno of PPE header vs stock header:
 m http://www.ppeengineering.com/assets/im ... erdyno.jpg m

5hp gain. I know it's not 7, but then again, maybe some other header might make extra 2hp. Who knows, but definitely possible.
Sure you can live without 500hp, but it\'s languishing.

Anonymous

#74
Quote from: "Tem"
Quote from: "pp"I think you can not gain 7hp in a header.

I think it's possible. Check the dyno of PPE header vs stock header:
 m http://www.ppeengineering.com/assets/im ... erdyno.jpg m

5hp gain. I know it's not 7, but then again, maybe some other header might make extra 2hp. Who knows, but definitely possible.

Well, I think that for having a significative gain, you have to have also an aftermarket exhaust.
On the other hand, if you have only an aftermarket exhaust, you have a very small gain in power, because it is already strangled in the Pre-cats.
If you get ride of the pre-cats and have a good aftermarket exhaust, then I think you got a significative gain in torque, and some more hps.
I don't pretend to understand much of the subject, but this is the only way I can explain the changes in my car's performance, and those are very real.

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