rear window to soft top

Anonymous · March 13, 2004, 20:57

last week I was folding down my soft top when the rear window shattered. I contacted my dealer in Chesterfield who told me that you cant just replace the window, you need a whole new soft top!! I tried to claim on my warranty coz it broke through normal use and i believe it must be some sort of fault with the assembly or manufacture. It took them approx 4 days to refuse my warranty claim, on the grounds that I have no evidence that it was not accidental damage. I then took my car to an independent mechanic who couldnt believe how thin the glass was, and said it was an inherent bad design and there is no real support to the glass. Anyway i am now claiming on my insurance. The roof is costing £600 + £300 fitting then VAT.

Just wondered if this had happened to anyone else, if it aint be extra careful when putting your soft top down!

Oh well at least my alloys arent bubbling......... yet

Anonymous · March 13, 2004, 21:03

some times mine has caught on the cross member behind the seats. it also appears to sometimes get jammed on the way down.

keep on at mr t. was it the dealer or toyota refused it on the warranty.

Anonymous · March 13, 2004, 21:09

apparently Mr T. refused it. Dealer at Chesterfield claims they have no influence on warranty issues. I also called customer care people at Mr T, they said that they might pay for it coz they are a customer relations budget. However in the end they have refused!

It didnt get stuck on anything. I have threatened them with legal action bad publicity with car mags etc. I had a word with trading standards and all they really said is that its a hard one and that its up to me to prove.

MRMike · March 13, 2004, 21:12

Quote from: "insomniac"It took them approx 4 days to refuse my warranty claim, on the grounds that I have no evidence that it was not accidental damage.

Using that logic, by the same token they have no evidence that it wasn't manufactur fault either!

I don't know about the thickness of the glass, but IMO the soft top is a really well designed one..folds the glass flat..no need for a tonneau the only problem I can see is it you leave something on the shelf that could smash the glass..

Good luck anyways!

SteveJ · March 13, 2004, 21:23

Out of some 300+ regular visitors to this site of which at least 150 are roadster owners, this is the first instance we have had of a rear screen breaking 'under normal use' and for my money the design is as near perfect as you can get.

Were you wearing a ring (especially with a diamond in it) or did you have anything metal in your hand as you pushed on the glass? The reason I ask is the rear screen is toughened glass (like the side windows) NOT laminated like the windscreen, so it will shatter with a fairly minor impact (that's why scrotes thieving from cars go for side windows rather than the windscreen as they are *MUCH* easier to break)

Anonymous · March 13, 2004, 21:42

Nope nothing glass in my hand, and dont wear a ring.

If i took my own legal action and if it had happened within 6 months of purchase it would have been up to Mr T to prove that there wasnt a fault, however once that 6 months is up its up to the purchaser to prove their is a fault/defect.

Anonymous · March 13, 2004, 21:59

you sure you didnt just slam the roof down - i know the glass can sometimes not fall into place properly if the roof is a bit cold. would seem that you pushed the roof down too hard and its smashed... just a thought.

SteveJ · March 13, 2004, 22:02

Quote from: "insomniac"Nope nothing glass in my hand, and dont wear a ring.

If i took my own legal action and if it had happened within 6 months of purchase it would have been up to Mr T to prove that there wasnt a fault, however once that 6 months is up its up to the purchaser to prove their is a fault/defect.

Indeed - that's exactly the law I used to get my entire '2 replaced due to an ABS fault in November last year (the fight started in April a week after I took delivery of the car!). However, in all honesty, the glass would NOT be covered under this law - it is considered to be 'consumable' in much the same way you could not claim for a replacement windscreen if it got broken. The only chance you have on this score is if there is a metal sub-frame (not sure of the exact construction of the hood) that has broken, causing the glass to shatter.

The fact remains though - this is the first problem we (as a club) have experienced with a failed rear screen that has broken without any external 'provocation'

On a slightly different tack, as the glass should be covered under your insurance, get them to stand the cost of the replacement - be aware however that Toyota (IIRC) do NOT supply the glass seperately - you have to buy a complete hood assembly - something you need to be aware of if the insurance company replace just the glass as the warranty on the hood would then be void.

Good Luck

SteveJ · March 13, 2004, 22:07

Quote from: "insomniac"I have threatened them with legal action bad publicity with car mags etc. I had a word with trading standards and all they really said is that its a hard one and that its up to me to prove.

Taking this part of your post in isolation, I used the same tack with Toyota over my ABS failure, and all they did was dug their heels in, delaying the replacement of the car for a month - believe me so many people are using this 'threat' due to the media promoting it as a good way to scare suppliers that it is loosing it's ability to get results - too many people are 'crying wolf' these days.

Also in any communication with Toyota (and this goes for every other club member too), please do not mention MR2ROC directly or indirectly, as we cannot support individual members in complaints against Toyota.

Peter Laborne · March 13, 2004, 22:55

Quote from: "SteveJ"Out of some 300+ regular visitors to this site of which at least 150 are roadster owners, this is the first instance we have had of a rear screen breaking 'under normal use' and for my money the design is as near perfect as you can get.

This is the third instance of the glass shattering that I have heard of. Both other times it was when the weather was cold and slightly too much force being used to lower the s/t. The canvas was stiffer than usual (due to the cold weather) and the owners pushed a little too hard to get the top to fold instead of just teasing it in place.

In the manual on page 31 it states "Do not raise or lower the soft top when the temperature is below 5degC (41degF). Damage to the top or rear window may result. If necessary to do so, warm the vehicle in a heated garage prior to operating the soft top mechanism."

In both the other cases the owners had to fork out themselves to replace the soft top as:
a) They couldn't prove it was a manufacturing fault
b) The couldn't prove that they didn't apply excessive force
c) They couldn't prove that the temperature was above 5degC at time of shattering the glass.

Anonymous · March 13, 2004, 23:01

ah if they have noted possible chances of damage in the owners manual you are stuffed as it is classed as a pre-warning

given the time of year they will probably just go for the temp item (sorry if thats stating the obvious)

as cartell and MR2Blue said to me

the soft top tells you if its a bit early to be putting the roof down as the canvas is that bit 'stiffer'

Peter Laborne · March 13, 2004, 23:05

Quote from: "insomniac"I have threatened them with legal action bad publicity with car mags etc.

Note - threating them will not achieve anything. Remember this is Toyota, a huge company with huge legal representation.

You must give them time, try and negotiate. Just refusing their comments and threating them will get you nowhere.

When I went to the media with my problems I had tried for months to establish a common ground between my requirements and what Toyota were offering. Toyota didn't budge, so I gave them a few warnings that they would force me to go to the press. If you do get something published in the press then Toyota will be given the chance to have their say. You need to make sure you have a water-tight case before you go down this road, or else you could look foolish. Toyota used me as their own PR pawn when I went to the press.

Peter Laborne · March 13, 2004, 23:08

Quote from: "insomniac"apparently Mr T. refused it. Dealer at Chesterfield claims they have no influence on warranty issues. I also called customer care people at Mr T, they said that they might pay for it coz they are a customer relations budget. However in the end they have refused!

Have you tried negotiations? How about if Toyota cover the cost of the glass and you will pay for the soft top replacement or visa-versa?

See if you can find a middle ground.

However IMHO you will get nowhere as it appears to be a case of RTFM. Sorry s:(

s:(

Anonymous · March 15, 2004, 10:08

I can confirm that the cost is in line with what I faced when someone kindly threw a brick at mine. Total cost was £960 in VAT which is shocking. I managed to get the insurance company to cover it under the windscreen excess so I didn't have to pay the full excess. It still took a few weeks to get the part and arrange for it to be fitted though and I'm not convinced they have refitted the roof onto the frame correctly either.

dave

Anonymous · March 15, 2004, 12:56

delete as covered above!

Oh little round things. Youve quoted me already!

SteveJ · March 15, 2004, 13:02

Quote from: "victor"
Quote from: "SteveJ"Out of some 300+ regular visitors to this site of which at least 150 are roadster owners, this is the first instance we have had of a rear screen breaking 'under normal use' .....

Arre you sure Stve??? I remember someone else having to have the roof replaced when they closed the top. At that time MR T replaced the roof under warranty. I'm sure I read it here or the old Yahoo list.

Tried searching the current forum, but couldn't find any reference to it, and I checked my archived (yeah - sad I know s:oops: :oops: s:oops: ) Yahoo mails without any success either. More than happy to be proved wrong on this one though.

There has been one person (who has posted in this thread) who had the hood replaced due to a broken rear screen, but that was vandalism rather than 'broken in service'

Anonymous · March 15, 2004, 20:39

Hey insomniac take a look on the buying forum as a Roadster is being broken for parts, maybe soft-top is in one piece. Looks like it was down when the accident happened s:?: :?: s:?:

Anonymous · March 15, 2004, 20:50

or this: m http://www.mr2roc.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2247 m

assuming they still have it.

Anonymous · March 15, 2004, 21:31

When I was looking for my hardtop I tried:

m http://www.find-a-part.com/ m

They text me back the next day saying that they had one & the price was (I think) £550 & was ready to be posted. When I rang them they were talking about a soft top

May also be worth a try!

Anonymous · March 16, 2004, 05:46

Quote from: "SteveJ"Tried searching the current forum, but couldn't find any reference to it, and I checked my archived (yeah - sad I know s:oops: :oops: s:oops: ) Yahoo mails without any success either. More than happy to be proved wrong on this one though.

I stand corrected then.

spyderman · March 26, 2004, 09:05

i have a spare complete soft top, that has been vandalised a few months earlier, on the top. So i went and bought a new one.

the rear part of the old soft top, that the window is attached is like new. i can cut the whole rear part of the soft top and send it to you with the glass, so you can fix yours if you want. Let me know if you are interested. Its a cheap method to solve your problem.

Thanks.

Anonymous · March 28, 2004, 16:32

Just thought I would let everyone know how im getting on with my soft top problem.

I have had the job done through my insurance. The garage completely messed it up. There are gaps around where it meets the body and around the side windows. There are alos other problems and a hell alot of wind noise!! The guy also managed to get glue all over the inside of the roof lining.

So its got to be done again. My insurance have been really good about it and are sorting everything out.

and to add to everything I have noticed that my alloys have started to bubble. Im currently arranging to have them done on warranty. Very poor, to say that they are quite expensive wheels.

Should get everything sorted eventually s:D

s:D

I bought the silver hardtop of ebay last week. Fittings should be on by next week end as they are delivered on monday, so will be able to collect it soon.

Anonymous · March 31, 2004, 10:51

I have also noticed that I have gaps by the side windows (just to left at the bottom). It's about half an inch at the bottom then gradually get's smaller higher up (It's sits flush with the window at about 4 inches up)! Only noticed yesterday when i put the roof down. Is this normal or should it sit flush?? anyone got any pics of how it should look?

I had the roof repaired last summer because it was overlapping the rubber when i put the roof up! It was fixed and working fine but now it is doing it again! s:evil: :evil: s:evil: I will check the gap up the top and maybe adjust those zip ties (maybe they have become slack?)! I just tend to tuck the roof into the rubber when it is half way up now!

They also replaced the tensioner so i no longer have those poppers! They are held together with some kind of clip/staple that you can't remove. still get the 'ears' but they are a lot easier to tuck away.

Anonymous · March 31, 2004, 12:23

Viggs, that sounds like you're starting to have the same problems all over again - I'd take it back!

As for the ears... surely the new strap is supposed to ensure that they never return? Touch wood I've never had them on mine, and I've been throwing it back and forth for the last 3 and a half years in all temperatures, without any problems at all!

Famous last words though, I thought i'd escaped the bubbling alloys.. until the warranty ran out and they suddenly went all flakey! s:roll: :roll: s:roll:

Tim

Anonymous · March 31, 2004, 12:26

what bit are the 'ears'?