Apexi Power FC replacement engine management system

[Tem]

yes Tem, thats what i mean..  s:) s:)

Ah, ok  s8) s8)

[Anonymous]

Is no one happy with the 2, naked the way she was born without the go faster stuff. Yes, ive got a induction kit new plugs etc but come on is it worth it for 20 - 25bhp. MMMM anyway where can I get a BIG TURBO. LOL

[filcee]

I am --  weeeeell, maybe I'll have lowering springs and a TTE zorst on the next one, but outside of that the car has more talent than I do, so I'm happy.  (I'll probably get thrown out of the club now and have to start knitting or trainspotting or something  s:? :? s:?   s:lol: :lol: s:lol:  )

[xdesign]

maurizio, do you have a printout of your settings?

A comparison table between stock and altered would be great.

Anybody else has the mapping in paper?

[Anonymous]

be patient! I have to copy values from PFC maps on Excel sheets. Send me your email address.

[xdesign]

Maurizio, thank you for the email!!!

It's looks very interesting.

The only problem is that my terminology is not that good!

What is WOT?
What is Knock (for an engine)?

Also the L01-L20, what is it?
I undestand RPMs on top.
I'm trying to get into the tables philosophy. How it works.

[Tem]

"What is WOT?"

Wide Open Throttle (when you floor the pedal)


"What is Knock (for an engine)?"

Knock is baaaad, m'kay? It kills your engine, here's the first hit from Google:
 m http://zhome.com/ZCMnL/PICS/detonation/detonation.html m


"Also the L01-L20, what is it?"

It's load...depending on throttle position, speed (=drag), uphill/downhill, accelerating/cruising/decelerating.

[Anonymous]

Thanks Tem for your kind explanation. Xdesign: when PFC will arrive, you can understand better... number and abbreviation.  s:wink: :wink: s:wink:

[xdesign]

OK!!! Thank you Tem!

Thank you Maurizio!

[xdesign]

Back to the subject!!!

PFC is installed, and I now am in a totally different adventure!!!

I don't know what to change, I'm not sattisfied with the pre-programming (Matt did he's best I'm sure) and I'm thinking about buying the Datalogic, OR a wideband sensor!

What do you think I should do?

If I find someone to dyno tune it, do you think he will be able without a O2 sensor?

Maurizio, which model (O2 sensor) did you get?

How easy is it to install?

[Tem]

I don't know what to change, I'm not sattisfied with the pre-programming (Matt did he's best I'm sure) and I'm thinking about buying the Datalogic, OR a wideband sensor!

The MWR pre-programmed map wasn't really useful for me either, maybe there's a difference between US/EU cars, cause ppl in US seem to like them.

If I find someone to dyno tune it, do you think he will be able without a O2 sensor?

Dyno tuners usually have their own equipment for checking the mixture, so you probably won't need WBO2 if you let someone else tune it. It's not really useful without the Datalogit anyway, cause you wouldn't be able to log the values.

[xdesign]

I see.

I just got a quote from someone who claims he can tune it.

200 Euro + 80-90 for the dynometer!!! LOL

They must be crazy!

[Tem]

I see.

I just got a quote from someone who claims he can tune it.

200 Euro + 80-90 for the dynometer!!! LOL

They must be crazy!

If he actually tunes it for that price, go for it!  s:shock: :shock: s:shock:  

I'm afraid he means that he'll just tune it for full throttle though and perhaps driveable at other loads  s:? :? s:?  Full tuning can easily last several days and cost you few thousand euros...

[Anonymous]

You know, I have a sneaking suspicion that Matt doesn't even program them.  I have not heard about one single person who has not had the same problem with CEL due to knock and maps being too rich at high RPM/load, whether they bought from MWR or somewhere else.  It is easy to fix and he has a Datalogit, so I have to conclude that he just can't be bothered.  Even if I'm wrong about the first part and he does in fact download his data to each and every one sold, he still can't be bothered to go back and change his map so customers won't have these problems.

[Tem]

You know, I have a sneaking suspicion that Matt doesn't even program them.  I have not heard about one single person who has not had the same problem with CEL due to knock and maps being too rich at high RPM/load, whether they bought from MWR or somewhere else.  It is easy to fix and he has a Datalogit, so I have to conclude that he just can't be bothered.  Even if I'm wrong about the first part and he does in fact download his data to each and every one sold, he still can't be bothered to go back and change his map so customers won't have these problems.

I bought my PFC from eBay and got the Datalogit from Matt. Got the map by email from Matt, so I'm pretty sure I have it  s;) s;)  IIRC, the ignition table was the same that comes with PFC, fuel map was a bit richer (even the stock map was too rich for me) and the middle of VVT-i map was changed.

[Anonymous]

OK, so he does download a file to them, but they all have the same problems... too rich in some areas and too much advance in some areas.  I just find it odd that these things have been reported by people who bought from elsewhere.  A possible explanation is that he didn't change everything that was inherently wrong.  I think he'd sell more if these problems were fixed up front.  When I got mine (sold it yesterday... going 2ZZ), problems were unexpected and that irritated me, which is why I wrote up those how-to articles on spyderchat and socalspyders.  If I had a laptop I would have uploaded by data and made it a download on socalspyder, but it's too late now.  Maybe someone else with a Datalogit will do that.

That VVT-i thing you mentioned... there is definitely a change compared to stock.  The changeover is smoother.  Driving with stock ECU, it kind of loses some steam at midrange in addition to not having as much power throughout the whole range.  I'm starting to adjust to stock and it isn't that bad, but I miss the PFC.  Even with the need to modify the maps, PFC is a darned good product.

[Tem]

Just got home so I can compare these two (Matt vs PFC stock). IGN maps are identical. Small differences in IGT map, 1-2 degree decrease in upper revs/higher load area (decrease meaning less advance), 0-2 degree increase in lower revs/load.

Isn't IGT trailing igniton? That's what I assume anyway.

Also, changes in INJ map, making it richer all around. And changes all around VVT map, up to 10 degrees.


You're right PFC is great and I'd hate to live without it now that I'm used to it. I already had basic tune (fuel+advance) when I got the Datalogit from Matt and he threw the map in, which was superb value for $0  s8) s8)  Matt's VVT map is great, I haven't touched it, I just copied it into my existing tune. Matt's fuel map just didn't work at all for me, it was way too rich, like it was done with different injectors. And the knock I had went away by adjusting the IGN table, the changes in IGT didn't seem to affect knock at all.

[roger]

Does anybody know what these two are on about   s:roll: :roll: s:roll:

[Anonymous]

I thought it should be IGT based on what someone else said, but it was IGN that I changed.  My assumption was that it SHOULD have worked fine for some type of gas (higher octane than me), so I just subtracted 3 from every value.  Later on I found that others (maurizio, for example) had fine-tuned it in timing and fuel, but it worked so well for me that I just left it alone and was waiting for Datalogit it do it.  Like I said, no laptop, so I never got to it.

You are probably right about different injectors.

I'll be looking for 2ZZ map at some point.  First I have to find a good engine and transmission.  Depending on how much that will run I may hold off on PFC for it and use stock ECU.

EDIT: Oh, I see what you mean, yes, IGT means Trailing.

[Anonymous]

Does anybody know what these two are on about   s:roll: :roll: s:roll:

  s:lol: :lol: s:lol:    s:lol: :lol: s:lol:  

Not the same but i got my e-manage from Matt pre-programmed, then Daz got his which was meant to be pre-programmed but had no maps, then Perry got his and the maps were totally different.After adding my WB O2 i found that both mine and Perry's maps were about as much use as tits on fish. IMO not worth getting anything pre-programmed from him, if you want to have a reliable map.

[Anonymous]

For anyone with basic mods, who don't intend altering them a great deal, surely the capabilities of the PFC are overkill. It seems far more cost effective to go for something like a Dastek Unichip (I'm biased, I've got one on order!) and get it professionally tuned. I see so many posts where people are asking how to tune the PFC, it's evident that a fair few people (not all) don't know exactly what they're doing.

I must admit, I liked the idea of being able to alter the engine maps at will but if being totally honest with myself I probably wouldn't have the ability to do a PFC justice on my car.

Don't get me wrong I'm not slating the PFC but for some the appeal must be largely down to bling factor, I do realise that there are also people who know what they are doing and can extract some decent performance.

[Tem]

For anyone with basic mods, who don't intend altering them a great deal, surely the capabilities of the PFC are overkill. It seems far more cost effective to go for something like a Dastek Unichip and get it professionally tuned.

I used to think so...but then I saw the PFC in eBay for £300 or so  s8) s8)

Now that I have it, I'd buy it for the full price. Takakaira has it for $900, which includes the Commander. I think it's a steal with current exchange rates  s8) s8)

I see so many posts where people are asking how to tune the PFC, it's evident that a fair few people (not all) don't know exactly what they're doing.

I think that's because PFC allows you to tune it yourself, so obviously many are interested in it. If you could tune Unichip yourself, I'm sure we'd see similar posts about that. Heck, if you could tune the stock ECU, I'm sure this place would be crowded with questions about it  s;) s;)  It's not hard at all, only issues I had with it were the few japanese menus...

Don't get me wrong I'm not slating the PFC but for some the appeal must be largely down to bling factor, I do realise that there are also people who know what they are doing and can extract some decent performance.

I don't know about that...it's pretty invisible, unless you leave the commander visible to attract thieves  s:? :? s:?  Normally you couldn't tell if anyone has it...but I know what you mean though, it's considered "The Best", so some probably get it just cause of that.

Personally, I got it cause I wanted to learn. I agree that Unichip (or any other chip) is a better choice, if you're staying N/A and get someone to tune it.

[Anonymous]

Yeah £300 is a good price - I'd have one for that!

[xdesign]

Tem, can you send me your map in excel?

I think I'm gonna buy the Datalogic and then have it tuned as well!!!

That's gonna be around $1000 of course, so I'm gonna do it step by step. First datalogic/experiments then tuning if I have to.

[Tem]

Tem, can you send me your map in excel?

Sure, just PM your email to me  s8) s8)

It's done for 98 octane and with Apexi intake, PPE header and custom pipe.