Lost confidence in my handling...

[EssexChaz]

Hey,

You might remember me from my much enjoyed crash into a ditch (i doubt it, but hell, back in my real forum hitting days i used to remember the weirdest things)  l viewtopic.php?f=9&t=27235&p=335227#p335227 l

anyway, as i said in that thread, I really wasnt humping it along the road when i lost control and entered the scenery, anyway, I have a problem..

I've reparied my car, had it lazer tracked and balanced etc, so thats all sorted, I just have a massive lack of confidence in my car, is this realisitic? I mean, I realise that its reasonable to be a bit shaken up for a while after binning your car, but its been like a year now and, in fairness, i am not a massive jessie, i just was kind of taken a back by how easily and uncorrectably my car switched ends in that instance.

I have got tein coliovers on it and, since my prang, got standard wheels with new tyres, and I do like to fly about in it, however, I get this feeling, primarily when going around sweeping bends, that the back is kind of twitching, i dont know how to really verbalise what i mean, its like the car is almost squirming with movement from the tyre walls, I dont know if its 'actually' happening, or if its just me being like overly aware of it, i even considered that it could be me/my balance moving on the chair thats making me feel that the back end is moving in a way it shouldn't.

is there anything i can do to verify that my car is either not handling improperly, or indeed improve significantly the feedback/feel of my car? would lowering it down make it better?

The only reason i have my car is because its supposed to be a good little sports car, but now i take it easy, and i get about significantly quicker in my gf's festa ST, which i am sure is slower and shouldnt handle anywhere near as well as the mr2.

This whole incident makes me long for my saxo, which whilst being reasonably sorted on the handling front was slow, but predictable and 'felt' like it would absolutely embarrass my current car round the twisties.

whats worse, pants weather is coming, and I am even more nervous and non-confident of my cars ability to stay pointing the right way in the wet/ice.

I think what i am saying is, that i kind of feel like this cant all just be me being 'scared' of my car, rather that i 'think' i have a handling problem and that combined with my accident its making me the driving equivelent to a miatonic goat, what i ask of you good forum, is can you help me fix my handling to inspire confidence and enjoyment in my driving again.

Don't worry though, doesnt have to be fast being as my engine sounds like a giant party in a metal factory and will be off the road for a bit till i get that fixed.

Chaz

[markiii]

what wheels and tyres do you have now

and what did you have pre crash?

[SimonC_Here]

Pre crash is in the other thread.
League helix wheel in 17" four stud from Rochford Tyres
205/40/17's

[markiii]

what make and model tyre?

[EssexChaz]

i believe they were Avon zz3? if thats a type of tyre :S

chaz

[markiii]

and whats on it now?

[dj2k21]

I think you cant go wrong with just some super sticky tyres, I love my toyo 888's there actually better in the wet than lots of tyres are in the dry IMHO.
I think with regards to your gf's fiesta and saxo's etc, you do feel more confident because there front engined and front wheel drive, the worst that will happen is you lose the front end, then you simply dip the clutch, pop it back out and it finds grip yet again. I too had a slammed saxo VTR and found it to be brilliant on the bends, I actually think that since I put my Teins on, despite it being alot more flat round bends and things, there is not as much warning when it lets go as standard suspension purely because it does not lean as much I think.
I think the best thing for you is to do a RWYB day at a local track and literally test your car to its limits., that way you know what it does, how far you can push it and it will give you loads more confidence. they are a brilliant handling little car, just look at this video for instance....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u-ikdbqMKsc

you just need more confidence, I too (being a wally and showing off to impress a girl) lost the back end on a rundabout, to be fair it was raining and I felt it go, I like to think I have reasonable car control, but as the back end come out a bit and I was controling it, there was a square of dry patch, the rear tyre caught grip on it and flicked me round the other way sending me sideways up a curb and through a row of hedges, it wasnt fun and certainly threw me, its just the fact the engine is in the rear so make sure you keep the spare wheel etc in the front as toyota balanced it to what they thought was best with the tool kit and spare wheel fitted.

hope this has helped you,

good luck

[markiii]

I think with regards to your gf's fiesta and saxo's etc, you do feel more confident because there front engined and front wheel drive, the worst that will happen is you lose the front end, then you simply dip the clutch, pop it back out and it finds grip yet again.

sounds like a great way to unsettle teh car further to me, whats wrong with just backing of teh gas a little

[dj2k21]

I think with regards to your gf's fiesta and saxo's etc, you do feel more confident because there front engined and front wheel drive, the worst that will happen is you lose the front end, then you simply dip the clutch, pop it back out and it finds grip yet again.

sounds like a great way to unsettle the car further to me, whats wrong with just backing of the gas a little

no no it really does work, I used to race a little in the french challenge, 106's and saxo's etc on the track, and obviously you didnt want to back off the gas as in those little cars momentum is everything. by dipping the clutch your obviously no longer sending powr to the wheels, if you let off the throttle then the power is still there and can continue the skid and then the tendancy would be to brake, which can sometimes make things worse and enduc a skid further if you wheels lock up. you dont have to believe me though, its just from personal experience, I am not here to tell people how to drive or prove whos right or wrong, people have differnet abilities, I just thnk thats the safest way to bring your car back into line thats all.

[EssexChaz]

My saxo used to be really progressive as it lost traction and was likewise in wet - I used to feel quite confident in my mr2 but then i binned it. I swear it handles worse now than it did before, but other than the standard wheels, its the same, and its all straight as its been aligned and it was repaired on a bench and done properly, i dunno, i think i might just fix my engine and get something else and hope its just a chagne that is needed to make me enjoy my driving again.

Chaz

[markiii]

or you could just tell me what tyres your currently running and I can endeavour to answer the question

[filcee]

Pre crash is in the other thread.
League helix wheel in 17" four stud from Rochford Tyres
205/40/17's

All four the same then ...

I think with regards to your gf's fiesta and saxo's etc, you do feel more confident because there front engined and front wheel drive, the worst that will happen is you lose the front end, then you simply dip the clutch, pop it back out and it finds grip yet again.

sounds like a great way to unsettle the car further to me, whats wrong with just backing of the gas a little

Yep - backing off will induce a small amount of power-off oversteer, resulting in the front turning into the corner better ... assuming you're not already beyond what the laws of physics will allow.  Having said that, I believe that the police drivers are now taught the 'pop the clutch' method for car control [1].  I seem to recall that the argument is that it makes all cars - regardless of which wheels are driven - behave in much the same way, therefore there are the minimum number of techniques required to be taught to the drivers.

[1] Apart from the 'Evo-borrowers' in the North West, it would seem See this post

[Wabbitkilla]

or you could just tell me what tyres your currently running and I can endeavour to answer the question

+1

Tell us what tyres you're using at the mo and we can offer some advice.

[markiii]

trust me if you drop teh clutch mid corner in something mid engined because you overcooked it, you are going to spin

[dj2k21]

trust me if you drop the clutch mid corner in something mid engined because you overcooked it, you are going to spin

oh I quite belive you markiii in a mid engined car thats probably the case, I was merely referring to a front wheel drive, the clutch popping technique was something I did in my saxo, I dont think I would do that in my mr2 it would probably just spin up with the power it has lol.

[skinz]

i spun 270 on a roundabout in rush hour traffic :p - luckily no one was too close behind - just me be being imature as I thought I had mastered that bit of road the night before ;p - some good slidy action.

Anyways i drove off redfaced, but thankfull that I never clipped a curb or even more a car. Found this shunned my confidence a bit, but to be honest the best way to sort it was to do it again :p (this time at night - when no one else was around)

Ideally you need to get yourself into a carpark (with no cctv), and just get some nice open space and keep on pushing it until you find the threshold, and after a couple of times im sure you be resuming normal service... sh*t happens, dont let it bog you down, only live once :p

[EssexChaz]

I'm not trying to hold out on you with the tyre info, my car is at home being as its broken, and i dont know what they are off the top of my head, if i remember correctly they were the mid range option that i found.

Chaz

[Wabbitkilla]

Ok then, drop on here what they are when you get home and what pressures you have them inflated to ... we can give you a hand figuring it all out then   s:wink: :wink: s:wink:

[uktotty]

I am thinking a trackday would bring you oodles of confidence in a safe environment with lots of advise around on tap

[Wabbitkilla]

Obviously a track day with the free instruction would do you a world of good.
Knowing the tyres and pressures will offer people the chance to recommend a pressure setup that's safe ... we'll await that info.
Also, would be worth us knowing what settings you have your Teins set to as they offer adjustment and there are a few people who have experience of setting them up nicely.

[markiii]

I'm not trying to hold out on you with the tyre info, my car is at home being as its broken, and i dont know what they are off the top of my head, if i remember correctly they were the mid range option that i found.

Chaz

I'm expecting to find you have fairly crappy tyres with big floppy sidewalls whihc will explain why it feel unsettled

[markiii]

i spun 270 on a roundabout in rush hour traffic :p - luckily no one was too close behind - just me be being imature as I thought I had mastered that bit of road the night before ;p - some good slidy action.

Anyways i drove off redfaced, but thankfull that I never clipped a curb or even more a car. Found this shunned my confidence a bit, but to be honest the best way to sort it was to do it again :p (this time at night - when no one else was around)

Ideally you need to get yourself into a carpark (with no cctv), and just get some nice open space and keep on pushing it until you find the threshold, and after a couple of times Im sure you be resuming normal service... sh*t happens, dont let it bog you down, only live once :p

much as we all liek to think we are driving gods, and a slide on teh road that you catch is always going to put a smile on your face

practicing so you have the experience to repeat on a particular piece of road assumes that the road conditions never change at that you have space to gather it all up when it inevitably goes tits up at some point.

deliberately trying to hang teh arse on public roads is pretty iresponsible

[Anonymous]

Ideally you need to get yourself into a carpark (with no cctv), and just get some nice open space and keep on pushing it until you find the threshold

Car park = public space = laws of the road still apply, which means if you do that you'll be looking at possible charges of dangerous driving, or at least DWDCA. Of course, if it's a privately owned piece of land to which the public do not have access or right of way then by all means go ahead.


I'm guessing the OP still has same size tyres on, which might as well be ditchfinders really. Rochford Tyres are utterly sh*t, they really are.

[stargazer30]

I can sympathize with the OP.  Until I got the 2 I'd only ever driven high powered  FWDs and whilst the understeer is annoying, its very predictable and means if you screw up, generally you get away with it.  Then add in ESP and the like and you can really screw up and the computer cleans up after you.  I'm a much more cautious driver these days when I'm in the 2.  Only today I had a oh no moment turning right on a large roundabout a little too quick.  Well within the limits of the car but not for Joe public who pulled out in front of me thinking he'd have plenty of time to get out.  I had to come off the gas to avoid side swiping him and felt the rear end unsettle, thankfully because I wasn't near the limit/have all the same tyres and the correct stagger I got away with it, if he'd been a bit slowed and I'd had to brake I'd have been screwed though.

[evileye_wrx]

deliberately trying to hang the arse on public roads is pretty iresponsible

Which no one in ROC would ever try and do..... in Wales...   s:wink: :wink: s:wink:  

Phil