Windscreen wiperswont turn off?

[Anonymous]

Hi all,

As per the article title my windscreen wipers have become permanently switched on when the car engine is running. When i move the control handle i'm able to change between different speeds but i cant get it to switch to intermitent or off. Also I'm unable to use the same handle to spray water on the windscreen.

As it permanently rains in Wales it hasn't been a problem, however i'm dreading the first dry day !!

Just wondering if any of you have ever had the same problem, or have any idea what is causing it? I changed the windscreen wiper motor about a year ago as the old one was sounding a bit sluggish and until the last day or two haven't had any further problems - not sure if this is related.

I drive a 2000 MR2 Roadster 1.8.

Any advice or links gratefully received.

Thanks

[Anonymous]

Weird one, try removing and replacing the fuse, try an ecu reset (prob nothing to do with it, but can't hurt) and check for a shorted wire.

[OldMan]

I just looked the wiring diagram for US spec cars.  Assuming it applies to UK spec cars, the windshield wiper switch in the steering column has probably failed.  If there is another explanation, it isn't obvious (at least to me).

[Anonymous]

Thanks for the responses both, I'll have a look into the fuse and wiring. Surprisingly the wipers just started working properly again however the washer spray still isnt working -and yes, I have checked theres water in it  s:D s:D  

Theres definitely something up though so shall investigate further.

Thanks very much

[cclarke99]

I'd check the earth wire (White/Black) coming from the wash/wipe control switch on the steering column. The wiper motor will work on both speeds without this connection, but the intermittent function and the washer both need it. All the circuitry for the intermittent function and the bit that wipes the screen when you operate the washer are in the switch, so, as per the post above, if it's not working then you need a new switch.

[Capvermell]

Hi guys,

A couple of years old thread now but my UK model July 2002 MR2 Roadster (5 speed and pre facelift) just developed the same problem yesterday afternoon at roughly the same age as the OP's car (both ten years old at the time).

I was in Brighton, West Sussex (England) on the sea front when some imbecile cyclist began weaving across the middle of the road from side to side in to both lines of alternate direction traffic.  I tried hooting my already failed horn (stopped working a few weeks ago) and also gesticulated at the guy and in the process I think caught the wiper switch as my wipers started going and I couldn't stop them.

Unlike the horn this was an immediately urgent matter to deal with as it was a dry day and never mind the wiper blades (at least three years old and so in need of replacement soon) I was concerned the screen would be damaged by endless dry running and melting rubber etc due to friction.  So I stopped the car removed the fuse box cover on the end of the centre console next to the pasenger door and after some hassles and having to remove the fuse above first was able to remove the 20A wiper fuse.   Voila the wipers stopped running but after waiting a few minutes and putting the fuse back the problem had not been cured.  So I removed it again.  So I now have a car I can't drive in any level of heavy rain as well as one that won't get through its next MOT (due in mid December) due to both this and the failed horn issues.

I'm just wondering if this is in any way linked to the horn problem and perhaps indicative of wiring loom corrosion due to a lot of water in the passenger and driver footwells over the last four years.  This is because the soft top has been slowly falling apart and gradually letting more water get in and I have been reluctant to spend the £1,000+ it might cost to fix it, especially as the actual hood cage also seems bent or twisted and might need replacing in addition to the hood itself.

In the case of the horn when I press the button with the car engine switched off but ignition on I can hear the horn relay in the engine compartment click but there is no sound from the horn speaker up front below the front luggage compartment and behind the front bumper.

Has anyone else had these problems and could it be wiring loom related?  Of course may be I just need a new wiper column stalk along with a new pair of air horns?  Unlike in Wales it is dry most of the time here in Surrey, England (even if often cloudy and very cold for the last few months) so my only option is to run with the fuse removed and then put the fuse back in the fuse box if I run in to rain.  This means I also need to put a decent pair of tweezers in my glove box to manage to pull the fuse again once the rain has stopped.

[Capvermell]

Just to add that I still haven't attended to this yet as it actually really doesn't rain that much here in the South (Surrey) if you don't have to use your car to go to work and hence can wait a few minutes for any deluge to subside.  Also some RainX on the screen helps water rush off in a downpour.

As I now have a failed horn, broken front bonnet/luggage compartment pull release cable (cable is just loose and floppy in the gove box and does not pull anything) and the failed windscreen wipers I'm vaguely interested in a small garage who are also competent auto electricians and don't charge the earth for their hourly rate.  The MOT looms as a final deadline but not until December.

The front bonnet lid seems like a pig as I can't now open the bonnet to reach the other end of the cable.  Also I bet threading the cable through is not at all easy even when you do have access?

[Anonymous]

So, just to recap, you are blithely driving around in a car without a working horn or windscreen wipers?

[SteveJ]

So, just to recap, you are blithely driving around in a car without a working horn or windscreen wipers?

It's OK - Darwinism will take care of the problems if left alone for long enough  s:D s:D

[Capvermell]

So, just to recap, you are blithely driving around in a car without a working horn or windscreen wipers?

No I'm coming to this forum to try and get some advice on putting them right not expecting to encounter the usual mindless internet troll who clearly gets his emotional jollies for the day by unnecessarily attacking other forum members rather than helping them with their problems.

The car will be 11 years old next month.  It passed its MOT without any advisories last December.  These problems have all come up very quickly.  None of them prevent the car from proceeding from A to B.  If one owns old cars these kinds of problem happen.

1) Horn - if you have to rely on your horn to avoid an accident then you are going to have an accident before long

2) Wipers - If the rain fall gets too heavy I can stop and install the fuse which causes them to go continuously until it is removed

3) Front Bonnet Release - Merely Inconvenient if I have a flat tyre or need to change a wheel after a flat.

[Capvermell]

Its OK - Darwinism will take care of the problems if left alone for long enough  s:D s:D

I know you aren't serious but I don't think it was necessary to support the completely unhelpful mindless post of the other forum member.

Both of you could have offered some advice on how to deal with these problems.   And if you actually started from the premise that most people who drive MR2s were not actually born with a spanner in their hand and might instead want someone else to do the work but without ripping them off that might also be useful.

Bonnet Catch - complete pig as I can't get the bonnet open at all now.  Requires complete disassembly of the whole front bumper I assume.  Only good news is that MrT seels a complete new pull handle and release cable for only £12.99 +VAT  Bad news is that they are on a two week back order as they have to come from Japan.

Wipers That only Stop On Fuse -  Probably control stick stalk failure - any diagram of how to disassemble the column to remove and replace it would be useful

Horn - Satisfactory two tone air horn replacement set available at Halfords.   However access to areas under front of car not easy plus not my kind of thing to make a bracket to attach a non standard horn.

I hope you both have three things go wrong with your cars in the next month or two so that unhelpful forum members can make derisory remarks at you.  s:twisted: :twisted: s:twisted:

[Anonymous]

Mindless post?

I simply asked if you were continuing to drive the car without a working horn or windscreen wipers. You have confirmed that you are.

[ChrisGB]

[MOD]OK guys keep it on topic. If you can help fix it, contribute, if you cannot help to fix it keep quiet, if your car is unroadworthy, don't drive it on the road until it is fixed and don't tell us all that you are driving a safety compromised car unless you are happy to cop some flack for it.[MOD]

[AckersMR2]

Can you pull the bonet cable all the way out? ie has the cable snapped somewhere?Just a thought and I've never needed to try this myself but is it possible to access the bonnet catch from underneath the car? Enough access maybe to pull the cable by hand to pop the bonnet?
Maybe you could put the front on axel stands or drive up onto some ramps?
Obviously don't bother trying until you have the new cable, otherwise you'll only have to do it all again when you get one.

The horns probably kaput, can you hear anything at all from the horn (get someone to press it and get down there and listen) you might just hear a muffled buzz, then you know it needs replacing, they are exposed to the elements. And as for the wipers, I'd start taking stuff apart if I were you. And if you don't feel confident doing that then take it to a garage and pays your money........

[Capvermell]

Can you pull the bonet cable all the way out? ie has the cable snapped somewhere?

Handle in glove box no longer produces the reassuring click or ping from the front of the bonnet and has less resistance.  I can't pull the handle out of its socket though.

Just a thought and I've never needed to try this myself but is it possible to access the bonnet catch from underneath the car? Enough access maybe to pull the cable by hand to pop the bonnet?  Maybe you could put the front on axel stands or drive up onto some ramps? Obviously don't bother trying until you have the new cable, otherwise you'll only have to do it all again when you get one.

Aha the old axle stands thing again.   Personally I find the cost of garage labour rates starts to seem an awful lot reasonable when I consider whether I want to pay £57.50 per hour +VAT or whatever or want to risk having my head squished in to raspberry jam trying to save that amount.   I am prepared to consider mechanical work that does not need axle stands.  Any work needing axle stands is a job for a garage with a safe and non lethal way of working on the car's underside as far as I am concerned.

The horns probably kaput, can you hear anything at all from the horn (get someone to press it and get down there and listen) you might just hear a muffled buzz, then you know it needs replacing, they are exposed to the elements.

The horn speaker is totally silent.  The relay in the engine bay behind the passenger compartment clicks when the steering wheel boss is pressed and the engine is turned off but the ignition switch is in Position II

And as for the wipers, I'd start taking stuff apart if I were you. And if you don't feel confident doing that then take it to a garage and pays your money........

Very easy to end up with a non drivable car once you start disassembling the steering column.

I fitted a new battery myself and I replaced the two top oxygen sensors myself (with Denso replacements from  w www.sparkplugs.co.uk w ) in the last year or so.  So I am capable of doing some work on the car myself.   I just don't do axle stands or very heavy duty mechanical stuff.  I am capable of removing and putting back the passenger or driver seats though

[Wabbitkilla]

Not having heard of anyone having the same problem it's hard to say if the wipers is a wiring issue or not. The only way to be certain is to take the wiper stalk assembly out and examine it for any obvious problems. Really the simplest way of proving it is to get hold of another one from a breaker and try replacing it. The horn is likely as simple as it's given up the ghost due to corrosion, again get a replacement from a breaker or one from a motor factors and swap it out. The bonnet catch is difficult to deal with when it's stopped working, and yes there are examples where the mechanism has corroded and failed, again replaced with parts from breakers. Sometimes they can just be dry and need lubricating, either way you need to jack the car up take the plastics off underneath and find your way in there to manually release it.

Now more seriously.
I can understand someone removing a fuse to get themselves home, you're in a spot of bother and it's the sensible thing to do. I cannot understand someone willingly driving around who needs to get out, open the passenger door and refit a fuse if it should rain, or if you need to clean the windscreen. I'm sorry but the wipers are a safety feature, they're an obvious mot failure, and it is not acceptable to continue driving around with them out of action.

Likewise the horn, I can understand driving around a few days with it not working, but ultimately it needs replacing, it is a safety feature which is only needed when in a situation you are not in control of. Have you even tried finding how much a replacement is?

All of these items are mot failures, MOT's are not just relevant to the time you sit hoping it's going to pass ... They're for all year.

Now, if you're not willing to get your hands and knees dirty then you have to pay to maintain your car. If you're not going to maintain your car then put the keys in a drawer and don't drive it. If you haven't the money to maintain the car then you haven't the money to run it. Either leave it parked up until you are willing or able to afford fixing it. I've seen the police having to deal with people who drive sheds around that have faults and people say they don't have the money or ability to maintain them, they seem to think they are entitled to drive regardless of the cars being unsafe and they're due some exception to the law. They and you are not some member of an exclusive club that allows you to drive an illegal car. The police can actually prosecute you for having non-functional washer and wipers.

You have come here asking for advice, you have had advice and maybe a little abuse for driving an unsafe and illegal car. It doesn't detract from the fact you freely admit that you are unwilling to do what is necessary to put the car into a legal condition so arguably you have opened yourself up to that criticism. The bonnet catch is a real pita and I can accept it's really crap to deal with when you can't open the bonnet to access it. You do need to get it fixed though, even just to fill the screenwash .

Sounds like you need a new soft top or keep a hardtop on, I don't think I'd care to drive around in a soggy car personally. Consistently damp conditions are going to cause other problems, so as with the above items you can't ignore it ... You have to deal with it and resolve it, or get rid of the car.

[Capvermell]

You guys really do like making mountains out of molehills and especially putting down nastily those of you not in your silly little matey clique with some members with very silly forum names don't you.

I just had new brakes and discs all round and new calipers before the MOT.  This is because driving with brakes that don't work really is dangerous aside from being an MOT failure.

I just asked for help with three things that collectively could cost rather a lot to resolve (because they all have the potential for the "how long is a piece of string" approach in the hands of a garage).  I thought I would get some support for trying to keep a car running that one day will get written off (due to too much work mounting up at once) but all I got was a thick ear.

Thanks a lot.  Next time I need advice on my car I know where not to come.   Its quite clear that you don't like helping anyone who either is not a former car mechanic or at least has aspirations to become one.  The use of axle stands and ramps by amateurs can be extremely dangerous so I am surprised that you recommend people get involved with them with such total abandon and lack of regard for whether or not they actually know what they are doing.

[Wabbitkilla]

I actually agree about the piece of string, but you have to start somewhere and the process of elimination is the simplest way of resolving faults. Sometimes you're lucky in replacing the right thing first time, sometimes you're not.

You mot was last December so it's not an excuse to use it as a reason for not fixing things.
If you're unsure about using axle stands or ramps then find a friend who will show you how it's done. If you don't feel safe using them then pay someone to do it, it still needs doing. Really I appreciate anyone feeling nervous about doing these things the first time, but you can do research, Google using axle stands and you will likely find practical help and maybe even a YouTube video. The bonnet catch is a real pain though, I wonder if you could reach it by touch if you remove the grille in front of the radiator? It'll be fiddly and you you have to suck it and see but you might get lucky and have it released.

As for the wiper control stalk..... m http://item.mobileweb.ebay.co.uk/viewit ... 1655514570 m
Worth a shot?

For the horn I would say it's easier accessed once you have the bonnet open, it could be wiring at the front, it could be the horns. The only way to be certain, I'm afraid' is to get in there and investigate.

Grab some tools and get in there .... Or pay someone to do it.

[AckersMR2]

+1
I really don't think there's much anyone can add to that. Good luck with selling your car  s;-) ;-) s;-)

[Wabbitkilla]

If you look on the underside of the steering column you will see a couple of Philips head screws in recesses, you will need a reasonable length screw driver to reach them. Once you start disassembling then you will see how you can take the stalk off. The stalks are usually tricky things to take apart and put back together so if you can find one cheap enough it's probably best to just replace it. If your location were on your profile maybe a friendly member local to you would come along and help, or at least offer encouragement and cups of coffee   s:wink: :wink: s:wink:

Sorry, I see you're in Surrey, unfortunately there aren't that many members around you.
I'm sure once you start having a look around d the areas you need to work you will find it's not that difficult.

Let us know how you get on.

[Capvermell]

Sorry, I see you're in Surrey, unfortunately there aren't that many members around you. I'm sure once you start having a look around d the areas you need to work you will find it's not that difficult.

The main issue really is that all garages in Surrey seem to be untrustworthy money printing machines.  One of the main warranty firms has reported Surrey as having the highest repair cost in the country.

When enough work accumulates its cheaper to go to the body repairers and old car restorers I know not far from Luton Airport (out in the countryside) who only charge around £30 an hour and are not subject to VAT (because they are a small two man operation) .  Round here Labour seems to be about £67 an hour Inc VAT even for a non dealer garage,  And also most of the garages here seem to double up the amount of time it ought to take them for even the very simplest job.

[Wabbitkilla]

Yeah, Labour prices seem to be constantly rising at the moment. I had my own share of the pain of unnecessary or bad work costing me last year. Finding a reliable and reasonable garage is a factor of luck and contacts.

The only problem you have which I feel you might need a garage for is actually the bonnet catch. The other bits you can fix armed with a 10mm socket and a Phillips head screwdriver plus the parts. It's more likely, from experience, that your bonnet problem is the catch and not the cable. You may find it best just to suffer the cost and get your Toyota dealer to fix that. Once you have the bonnet back in action you can remove the drunk plastics and deal with the horn, which may need the bumper removing. If you look at Les's how to for replacing the foglamp the instruction should help you and the photos are handy to understand where everything sits. You've actually done more than some by checking the relay is clicking. You could Jerry up a 12v bulb, maybe small like an indicator bulb and remove the wires from the horn...  attach bulb and see if it lights when you press the horn. Then you know if it's the horns or something in the wiring.

Personally I would just swap out the wiper stalk and see if that fixes them, it's the most likely thing to be fault when you consider how much use it gets in this country  s;-) ;-) s;-)

Like most things it's a process of elimination, sometimes you're lucky picking the right thing to replace, sometimes you're not.

I think people really hark on about the safety issues because, at heart, they would rather you didn't suffer being prosecuted by the Fed's, they would rather spare you having an accident. Obviously these may seem piddling little issues nut they are important items.

None of us were really born with spanners in our hands. The great thing about being human is our capacity to learn. Some people have a natural aptitude for something, but it doesn't stop anyone getting down to trying. Even failing is valuable as at least you've learned one way how not to do something. If you can Jack a car up to change a wheel then you are Half way to learning how to use axle stands.

A correction to a previous entry, if you turn the steering wheel 90degrees one way then the other I think you will spot a couple if screws for the shroud. Work your way around testing if it's coming loose. You never know you might be the first person to write a how to on the subject that will help other members.

[AckersMR2]

I think there's some really good advice Wabbit has given you, I think definitely the stalk is your problem certainly when reading the circumstances under which it failed?

As for allowing problems to accumulate before confronting them, I think that's a false economy as those problems when left lead to others which will ultimately cost you more. Case in point being your wipers, had you fixed your horn a couple weeks earlier then there would have been no need to gesticulate out the window at the erratic cyclist, in so doing knocking and most likely breaking your wiper stalk? A lesson learnt there, me thinks? Or maybe not......

[Wabbitkilla]

[MOD]I really don't see it's necessary to go points scoring here, some topic responses have been removed (and stored for posterity) so the narrative of this experience can help any future members with similar problems without the flaming and counter poisoning that's appeared here. Remember we are on a public forum, the club is established to be an all-inclusive community supporting the maintenance of these great cars and making it possible for fellow owners to enjoy time together. The thread is now locked as sensible and objective advice has been given and it's up to the members in question to act on that advice and get their car back into a safe condition. Being a public forum also means it can be seen by anyone on the internet, that includes any Police department wishing to find out about people misbehaving. The club neither supports nor condones any illegal activity or practices.