Turbo kit options and considerations

[MattPerformance]

MWR 2zz base turbokit. 700CC deutchwerk injector, PFC, J$S safeguard, Methanol/water injection.

310whp@10psi   s:D s:D   on a stock 2zz engine, 295whp@9psi, 280whp@8psi.

Plan in to install Mahle pistons and run 17psi in 2012.

310hp at the wheels at 10psi on a stock engine.  Really?  I keep seeing these massive output figures from the US (1zz and 2zz) but whenever we try to replicate the performance over here we fall a LONG way short, so forgive me for being so sceptical!  I'll have a little wager that you'll be needing to put those pistons in before 2012 if you're run it at a genuine 280whp or more  s;) s;)

[silversprint]

280whp on a turbo 2zz is common. If a tuner can't make that power with a PowerFc and a turbo 2zz then you need to find a new tuner. That hp number was done in cold weather. I think it probably runs less as the temperature as gotten hotter here in the summer. I'm probably now looking at closer to 260. I think if I can keep the oil temperature and knock under control the engine will survive, at least for a short while.

This spyder is actually more of a track car. I wanted low boost and conservative tune. I was surprised the car actually made that much hp. My goal was to run 8psi and be happy with whatever hp number I got. I can't lower the boost any more with this wastegate because I get boost creep at high RPMs.

[Anonymous]

Why do people have to say you wont achieve this and that. at the end of the day if thats someones goal leave them be. anything can be achieved its just how much money your going to throw at it. take my engine Redline said i wont see more than 160 it made 174 on the stock settings. i still think i could make a couple more as the map is no good as well as the chip as it just cant handle the bore increase. at the end of the day if the car runs well and coping who cares what it comes out. and as every tuner will tell you every dyno is different on the setup so again how can you compare?

[MattPerformance]

Why do people have to say you wont achieve this and that. at the end of the day if thats someones goal leave them be. anything can be achieved its just how much money your going to throw at it. take my engine Redline said i wont see more than 160 it made 174 on the stock settings. i still think i could make a couple more as the map is no good as well as the chip as it just cant handle the bore increase. at the end of the day if the car runs well and coping who cares what it comes out. and as every tuner will tell you every dyno is different on the setup so again how can you compare?

I completely agree that as long as someone's car is performing in the way that they want then everyone should be happy for (and including) them, but he is claiming very big numbers which I have every right to dispute  s;) s;)   (Silversprint's reply does rather suggest that it's not exactly a safe set-up)

And for completeness, regarding your car, maybe Richard was being a tad naive... there are plenty of MR2 Roadster stock motors running close to 170bhp so I'd have thought that was a minimum target for yours given its larger capacity and higher compression.  I'm sure there's a fair amount more to come.

[Anonymous]

Why do people have to say you wont achieve this and that. at the end of the day if thats someones goal leave them be. anything can be achieved its just how much money your going to throw at it. take my engine Redline said i wont see more than 160 it made 174 on the stock settings. i still think i could make a couple more as the map is no good as well as the chip as it just cant handle the bore increase. at the end of the day if the car runs well and coping who cares what it comes out. and as every tuner will tell you every dyno is different on the setup so again how can you compare?

I completely agree that as long as someone's car is performing in the way that they want then everyone should be happy for (and including) them, but he is claiming very big numbers which I have every right to dispute  s;) s;)   (Silversprint's reply does rather suggest that it's not exactly a safe set-up)

And for completeness, regarding your car, maybe Richard was being a tad naive... there are plenty of MR2 Roadster stock motors running close to 170bhp so I'd have thought that was a minimum target for yours given its larger capacity and higher compression.  I'm sure there's a fair amount more to come.

Your only mentioning the figures because you want them sort of figures  s:lol: :lol: s:lol:

Richard was naive at my setup and due to fact hasnt mapped it right. he never really took into account the larger capacity and i did mention it. due to the bad map / ecu not being able to do the job like richard said im going to take the car off the road and get a standalone fitted but by a different tuner. richards map on mine below 2k rpm is pointless, its bogged down dont want to go, hesitates and then theres the idle or lack off. plus he never filled me with convidence on the day as he asked me whats the difference between stage 1 and stage 2 cams. it might of been joking but i get the impression he didnt actually know. so for me it was £600 down the drain

anyway whats the new project turbo 2zz by chance.

[markiii]

or it could be the unichip is just fundamentally not capable of coping with your engine mods as I originally told you

[uktotty]

My emanange was offered and almost sold but he decided to go with the Unichip  s:( s:(

[Anonymous]

or it could be the unichip is just fundamentally not capable of coping with your engine mods as I originally told you

very true and most likly the cause for the idle but the unichip should at least be capable to not bog down at the lower rpm if it can handle it at the higher rpm. either way i was sold a solution that dont work, but you learn from experiance. undecided tho on if it should go thor / pro tuner or another place. Thor seems to have mixed reviews but i got time to decide as it will be next year it will get mapped

edit went with the unichip mate as it was not a bad all included price either way the emange would not of coped as it basically the same as the unichip and that aint doing the job.

[MattPerformance]

Your only mentioning the figures because you want them sort of figures  s:lol: :lol: s:lol:

Richard was naive at my setup and due to fact hasnt mapped it right. he never really took into account the larger capacity and i did mention it. due to the bad map / ecu not being able to do the job like richard said I'm going to take the car off the road and get a standalone fitted but by a different tuner. richards map on mine below 2k rpm is pointless, its bogged down dont want to go, hesitates and then theres the idle or lack off. plus he never filled me with convidence on the day as he asked me whats the difference between stage 1 and stage 2 cams. it might of been joking but i get the impression he didnt actually know. so for me it was £600 down the drain

anyway whats the new project turbo 2zz by chance.

They're very desireable numbers, that's for sure.  But I'll be sticking with the 1zz motor.  Still not sure how the new project will pan out as it seems to change in my head like the weather!

To be fair to Richard (Redline) he can't be expected to know what very mod available for a 1zz motor is.  He doesn't specialise in MR2s (ask him about Ford tuning however and he's like an encyclopedia) but he has mapped quite a number with Unichips and with an excellent level of success.  I don't see why the Unichip can't handle what your car has on/in it right now but maybe an injector overdrive module is needed, but that's a gamble and you could be spending good money after bad.  You were of course warned about the risk of opting for a piggyback rather than a standalone (and all of the pitfalls of developing your own custom set-up)  s;) s;)

It will all come good in the end.  A former business associate once told me: you don't lose money, you buy experience.  Might be a nice way to reconcile it in your mind  s:) s:)

[mrzwei]

you don't lose money, you buy experience.

Excellent!

[Anonymous]

Your only mentioning the figures because you want them sort of figures  s:lol: :lol: s:lol:

Richard was naive at my setup and due to fact hasnt mapped it right. he never really took into account the larger capacity and i did mention it. due to the bad map / ecu not being able to do the job like richard said I'm going to take the car off the road and get a standalone fitted but by a different tuner. richards map on mine below 2k rpm is pointless, its bogged down dont want to go, hesitates and then theres the idle or lack off. plus he never filled me with convidence on the day as he asked me whats the difference between stage 1 and stage 2 cams. it might of been joking but i get the impression he didnt actually know. so for me it was £600 down the drain

anyway whats the new project turbo 2zz by chance.

They're very desireable numbers, that's for sure.  But I'll be sticking with the 1zz motor.  Still not sure how the new project will pan out as it seems to change in my head like the weather!

To be fair to Richard (Redline) he can't be expected to know what very mod available for a 1zz motor is.  He doesn't specialise in MR2s (ask him about Ford tuning however and he's like an encyclopedia) but he has mapped quite a number with Unichips and with an excellent level of success.  I don't see why the Unichip can't handle what your car has on/in it right now but maybe an injector overdrive module is needed, but that's a gamble and you could be spending good money after bad.  You were of course warned about the risk of opting for a piggyback rather than a standalone (and all of the pitfalls of developing your own custom set-up)  s;) s;)

It will all come good in the end.  A former business associate once told me: you don't lose money, you buy experience.  Might be a nice way to reconcile it in your mind  s:) s:)

yes he is one for fords that was noticed as everything is ford there  s:lol: :lol: s:lol:

and it is a good way of thinking about makes you feel better and you havnt wasted money.

as for the chip its real problem is the lack of idle control and the stock just isnt able to run the idle with the larger capacity. i was warned about going piggyback against standalone but even you your self said it should be ok. but as there is a lack of people with bigger displacements about nobody really could tell that it wasnt going to run, hence why a standalone was mentioned as it would be able to cope regardless. But on the bright side taking it off the road allows me to strip the car down and start making the charger mounts so it can be fitted for the next ecu and map and we can all find out actually how far you can push a supercharged 1ZZ   s:twisted: :twisted: s:twisted:

[muffdan]

For what it's worth, I ran an overbored engine with stage 2 crower cams on a unichip with no idling problems.

[Wabbitkilla]

For what it's worth, I ran an overbored engine with stage 2 crower cams on a unichip with no idling problems.

What happened to that engine in the end?

[markiii]

For what it's worth, I ran an overbored engine with stage 2 crower cams on a unichip with no idling problems.

must be teh only problem you haven't had  :-) :-) :-)

[Anonymous]

every setup differs. mine just wants to be a money drain and wants an expensive ecu. if women were engines my engine would be female as it always wants me to spend money on it  s:lol: :lol: s:lol:

[ChrisGB]

Just a thought, but would you not expect stage 2 N/A cams to give lumpy idle and less than ideal running in the bottom third of the rev range? You have increased lift, duration, rate and overlap so you lose at the bottom to gain at the top.

Stage 2 F/I cams should be better in this respect as they won't have big overlap.

Chris

[Wabbitkilla]

every setup differs. mine just wants to be a money drain and wants an expensive ecu. if women were engines my engine would be female as it always wants me to spend money on it  s:lol: :lol: s:lol:

If it wasn't the engine it would be something else ... I like Matt's quote   s:lol: :lol: s:lol:

[Anonymous]

the cams could be an issue but if i actually got the right ecu in the first place to get mapped it wouldnt cause a problem. the problem with the unichip is the lack of things you can do with it. like mark has said unichip is great for little mods and what most people on here have done ie filter and exhaust. but for people that have gone a bit to far possibly with larger capacity for instances its harder to map out the problems and you havnt really got the control, standalone you do and frankly is what i should of done but hey i brought some expeirence  s:lol: :lol: s:lol:

[muffdan]

For what it's worth, I ran an overbored engine with stage 2 crower cams on a unichip with no idling problems.

What happened to that engine in the end?

That was my first built engine. It melted a piston after a couple of hundred miles. The map wasn't safe!

[ChrisGB]

I can see that a piggyback solution is not making best use of a stage 2 setup, particularly as it limits you to the stock rev limit, but lumpy  idling from aggressive cams is not something you can map out.  The lumpy idling and slow low end are a result of the cams changing the l low running speed airflow through the engine,  conventional mapping only regulates mixture and ignition timing. You may be able to improve it with vvti tuning but it is a long shot. In respect of idle and low speed running, a standalone may not make any difference.

Chris

[Anonymous]

I can see that a piggyback solution is not making best use of a stage 2 setup, particularly as it limits you to the stock rev limit, but lumpy  idling from aggressive cams is not something you can map out.  The lumpy idling and slow low end are a result of the cams changing the l low running speed airflow through the engine,  conventional mapping only regulates mixture and ignition timing. You may be able to improve it with vvti tuning but it is a long shot. In respect of idle and low speed running, a standalone may not make any difference.

Chris

oh standalone will make a difference just by being able to raise the idle postion so it revs more. do you think the cams will be even more of a problem with the charger

[ChrisGB]

Faster idle will help. I would have thought that the F/I cams would be better with boost.

Chris

[muffdan]

Faster idle will help. I would have thought that the F/I cams would be better with boost.

Chris

So would lower compression pistons! Rich, I'm not sure how well your engine is going to take boost with such a high compression ratio. I should think detonation is going to be a problem.

[Anonymous]

same ratio as a 2zz 11.5:1 agreed this is a high ratio but the charger is going to give a max of 9 psi so i dont think that will be a problem. but im planning on putting a recirc BOV in and adjust it so when the pressure hits a certain point the bov will recirc the pressure back to the start. all of this to be done before the maf. but i might have that removed as i will probably go to a link and they can run an air temp. so what thor said anyway.

[muffdan]

I do recomend the Link G4. They are very good ECU's. You'll want to keep the MAF though even if you are running off a MAP sensor as you'll want the map to take into account inlet charge temperature, which is being read by the MAF.

Another point, I'm still running the Stage 2 (FI) cams on a big bore and I have no idling problems, running on the G4. That said, it has only run properly on the Link since I took it to Redline. Thor had many attempts to get the car idling and running right. I dropped them because they couldn't deliver and certainly didn't give me the level of service I expected as a paying customer. I would give them my car, pre-booked, and it would take them up to two weeks sometimes before they would even put it on the dyno.

Nigel recommends a mapper who is good with the Links. He has a mobile rolling road and comes to you. I forget his name but I'm keen to give him a try next time I need a full map done.