MOT Failing on Emissions

aaronjb · April 8, 2011, 10:11

Quote from: "rbuckingham"
Quote from: "WillsSayers"Well this doesn't bode well then, as he also said that being a post-2001 car, they can't chop and weld a new cat in. Arghhhh!

sounds like he dont want the job. cant see why you cant fit a cat to a car after 2001

Actually.. technically.. you can't. Any exhaust system containing emissions related equipment for a post 2001 car has to be 'Type approved' - a cut 'n shut exhaust won't be. That's why it's hard(er) to buy CATs on their own now (and usually there's small print about 'off road use only' in there).

Stupid law.. fortunately, plenty of places still seem to be happy to bend the rules a little.

Anonymous · April 8, 2011, 11:20

Quote from: "aaronjb"
Quote from: "rbuckingham"
Quote from: "WillsSayers"Well this doesn't bode well then, as he also said that being a post-2001 car, they can't chop and weld a new cat in. Arghhhh!

sounds like he dont want the job. cant see why you cant fit a cat to a car after 2001

Actually.. technically.. you can't. Any exhaust system containing emissions related equipment for a post 2001 car has to be 'Type approved' - a cut 'n shut exhaust won't be. That's why it's hard(er) to buy CATs on their own now (and usually there's small print about 'off road use only' in there).

Stupid law.. fortunately, plenty of places still seem to be happy to bend the rules a little.

i did not know that. ill go get my coat. s:flame: :flame: s:flame:

aaronjb · April 8, 2011, 11:41

To be fair it's the first time I've heard of a place actually refusing to do the work under the new rules.. so you're probably right anyway and he just doesn't want the work/hassle s;)

s;)

K T M Rider · April 8, 2011, 12:37

Quote from: "aaronjb"
Quote from: "rbuckingham"
Quote from: "WillsSayers"Well this doesn't bode well then, as he also said that being a post-2001 car, they can't chop and weld a new cat in. Arghhhh!

sounds like he dont want the job. cant see why you cant fit a cat to a car after 2001

Actually.. technically.. you can't. Any exhaust system containing emissions related equipment for a post 2001 car has to be 'Type approved' - a cut 'n shut exhaust won't be. That's why it's hard(er) to buy CATs on their own now (and usually there's small print about 'off road use only' in there).

Stupid law.. fortunately, plenty of places still seem to be happy to bend the rules a little.

Which is why (going off topic slightly) if buying a new stock Cat for your car you will likely pay more if you say your car is a March 2001+ vehicle than if you say it isn't - post Feb 2001 Cats being £50 more on the 'bay:

m http://shop.ebay.co.uk/cats_2_u/m.html? ... p=15&_sc=1 m

Unless, MOT testers start looking for what is stamped on your cat, I can't see what difference it is going to make buying a non TA cat for your post Feb '01 roadster.

Mike_V · April 8, 2011, 13:02

Wills. Do you or anybody else know the outside diameter of the Janspeed downpipe?

WillsSayers · April 8, 2011, 13:19

Mike,

I certainly don't myself, hopefully someone else could be of more use! Nick...........?

WillsSayers · April 8, 2011, 15:39

Just been down noseying about the car. It would seem that what the garage thought was the Sports Cat is actually just the big champers in which the O2 sensors plug in to post-manifold. The rest of the configuration looks the same as WabbitKilla's s:(

s:(

Goeman · April 8, 2011, 21:14

Quote

Will. You were enquiring after OEM exhaust but if that's you mid section (cat or not) the OEM exhaust won't fit on to it.

WillsSayers · April 14, 2011, 11:25

I'd just like to say that I've passed my MOT now! Mike_V very kindly lent me his old Cat and backbox for me to pass with, so very big shout out to this man's wonderful kindness. The chap even drove up to Durham to give the stuff to my brother, as I was unfortunately busy!

s:bounce: :bounce: s:bounce:

Credit to the forum.

aaronjb · April 14, 2011, 12:05

If it's any consolation.. guess what mine just failed on? s:)

s:)

WillsSayers · April 14, 2011, 13:23

Can it fail for "too much boost"........?

Ilogik · April 14, 2011, 13:26

haha weird how everyones cars seem to be failing on emissions, mine did earlier this year but i was running without a cat s:lol: :lol: s:lol: , now have a nice 100 cel sports cat. Mr2's are the only car that i have had that have always passed without needing work. Have owned various ones for 6 years now.

aaronjb · April 14, 2011, 15:24

Quote from: "WillsSayers"Can it fail for "too much boost"........?

Actually the full sheet was:

Numberplate bulb inoperative
Front anti-roll bar mounting loose (I think I'd have noticed this if it really was...)
Front numberplate letters too small
Fast idle emissions outside of limits ( s:oops: :oops: s:oops: )

Fortunately it doesn't run out until the 26th so I have a little time to get it sorted out..

WillsSayers · April 14, 2011, 15:40

To be fair, 3 of those issues are probably going to cost you £10 combined to fix s:lol: :lol: s:lol:

What's causing the emissions though, just a cat problem (ie, none)?

aaronjb · April 14, 2011, 15:51

Yeah there's no CAT, and I could never quite get the fast idle area of the map right.. amazingly enough, idle emissions passed (0.48% CO) but fast idle failed (5.99% CO, 298ppm HC and 0.889 lambda). I'm not sure tuning alone could bring everything into line for the fast idle, so it'll need a CAT to pass - at this point it's looking like I'll be stripping the turbo kit off and MOTing it without it, though.

frogger · April 14, 2011, 18:15

Quote from: "aaronjb"Fortunately it doesn't run out until the 26th so I have a little time to get it sorted out..

I always thought an MOT fail automatically replaced any existing MOT cert on the VOSA system? Is this not the case?

aaronjb · April 14, 2011, 18:22

I believe you can still drive the car as long as the previous MOT hasn't yet expired - certainly the online VOSA status check[1] seems to say that; if I check the MOT Status of my car it has a current, valid pass recorded. If I check the MOT history of my car it has a current fail recorded with a previous pass 11 months ago that's still valid.

So according to VOSA, I have a current valid MOT (for 12 days, anyway s:? :? s:? )

[1] m http://motinfo.direct.gov.uk/internet/j ... equest.jsp m

Mike_V · April 14, 2011, 18:24

Frogger is quite correct with that, a fail supersedes any previous certificate.

aaronjb · April 14, 2011, 18:25

Quote from: "Mike_V"Frogger is quite correct with that, a fail supersedes any previous certificate.

So why does the online status check report a current valid MOT (with a note that there are subsequent either aborted or failed tests), and not a big fat fail?

[edit]

[edit edit] Also checking around found a thread on PistonHeads with this response from VOSA:

QuoteDear K50 DEL,

Thank you for your email enquiry dated 1st November, 2010 concerning the
attached.

Unfortunately, what the tester has told you is completely incorrect.

An MOT is valid until midnight on the date of expiry even if the vehicle
fails a new test before the expiry date of the existing one.
This is one of the reasons that you are allowed to take the car for test
up to one month before the expiry- so that if any repairs are needed the
car can still be driven provided the car is roadworthy ( i.e you could
not drive with bald tyres etc as this would be illegal).

I hope this information has assisted you with your enquiry, but if you have
any further questions please do not hesitate to contact us again.

Kind Regards
Ian Byrne
VOSA Contact Centre
Operations Directorate
Tel: 0300 123 9000

m http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topi ... e%3F&mid=0 m

frogger · April 14, 2011, 18:58

Hmm, on the evidence above it does look like I was fed the exact same incorrect info as 'K50 DEL' by an MOT tester!

However, it's an interesting conundrum regarding the tyre example...
"so that if any repairs are needed the car can still be driven provided the car is roadworthy ( i.e you could not drive with bald tyres etc as this would be illegal)"

... I would have thought anything that caused an MOT fail would have been seen as not 'roadworthy' in the eyes of VOSA! Not just the extreme safety issues.

... The more I think about it, it does seem a bit odd that roadworthyness comment! s:? :? s:? I'd say driving with poor functioning brakes, dodgy seatbelts, a knackered shock, trailing arm bush etc etc could all potentially be just as dangerous, if not more dangerous, compared to setting out with a tyre with 1mm tread.

Who decides where to draw the line and who decides which faults you are allowed to leave the station with scott free s:? :? s:? Confused

Dont get me wrong, I'm not questioning that what your saying above is actually the case... but some of the logic does seem a bit bonkers, essentially admitting that their MOT tests are not a test of roadworthyness s:lol: :lol: s:lol:

Not complaining, extra few days grace eh!

mrzwei · April 14, 2011, 19:47

Definately a couple of posts there to print off and keep.

It always was the case, prior to computerisation, that if the car failed you could either fix it or take a chance and take it to another tester and try again until the original certificate expired. If you have been told that the car is unroadworthy then it is your decision whether or not you drive it. If you are pulled over, you will be done for driving an unroadworthy car not for not having a current MOT certificate.

The wording on the back of the pass certificate is pretty clear in that 'it was ok on the day of the test but that might not continue to be the case for the rest of the year'. It doesn't expire until the expiry date shown.

As an example, if your tax is up for renewal and you do it at the post office they will simply check that you have a current MOT certificate, they won't access any data base (just done it).

Certainly cleared a point up for me.

aaronjb · April 14, 2011, 20:01

Since I feel like someone is about to call the police and report me for driving a dangerous vehicle, I feel compelled to point out that a) I have another car and b) the MR2 is sitting on my driveway right now and probably won't move until it's booked in for it's next MOT (and yes, it's definitely legal to drive a car to a pre-booked MOT regardless of it's MOT status)

loadswine · April 14, 2011, 20:06

Sad that you have to add that sort of a post for any finger waggers Aaron. Anybody who knows you would realise that you are a completely sensible person and wouldn't flount the law anyway. s:)

s:) You've also categorically got your bases covered legally as you've illustrated.
I'd just like to say good luck with sorting out a pass on the next test mate! s:wink: :wink: s:wink:

aaronjb · April 14, 2011, 20:17

First thing I have to do is crawl under there and make sure that the front ARB is, in fact, still attached to the chassis (actually I can get to that through the bonnet I think).. replace that bulb, put a new front plate on.. and figure out what to do about the fact that I'm killing the environment.

mrzwei · April 14, 2011, 20:28

Quote from: "loadswine"Sad that you have to add that sort of a post for any finger waggers Aaron

I wasn't 'finger wagging', I was actually grateful that a grey area for me had been clarified using some useable evidence as opposed to just 'hearsay'.

Edit: I mean the VOSA letter quoted by aaron just in case that isn't clear.