Which Power Steering Fluid

Goeman · January 14, 2012, 15:28

Apparently you can use Peugeot gold EHPSF and it only costs £8 instead of £30. At least that's what MK2 MR2 owners think. They use the same EH fluid as the MK3. An extra £22 for peace if mind isn't much though.

catkins · January 15, 2012, 00:27

Bought it today. The parts guy, very smartly dressed in shirt and tie, commented "ooh, that's proper special stuff... its got Japanese writing on an' everything" and when I tried to start a discussion about it needing the specific fluid otherwise it could kill a £1000+ pump, he replied "Oh not sure, the guys in the workshop know more about it than me". This left me absolutely tamping so I just grabbed the stuff and walked out. This shirt and tie guy is who customers speak to when they ring, not the workshop guys, so he should know as much as them!! How can he give correct advice?! He had no idea about the fluid. I'm still seething now.....

Anonymous · January 15, 2012, 08:35

Alot of information floating around the internet is absolutely brill, but some is "received knowledge" and some of that is, for the want of a better word, cobblers.
If anyone would like to try ordinary ps fluid, Im happy to donate a pump and rack should this prove or disprove the case.

ChrisGB · January 15, 2012, 09:04

Quote from: "dick2ski"Alot of information floating around the internet is absolutely brill, but some is "received knowledge" and some of that is, for the want of a better word, cobblers.
If anyone would like to try ordinary ps fluid, I'm happy to donate a pump and rack should this prove or disprove the case.

If only it where that simple s:roll: :roll: s:roll:

You can get a hydraulic fluid incompatibility that will affect pumps / seals from one supplier but be perfectly ok with pumps / seals from another. I have seen this in an investigation on brake master cylinders. Dual / multiple sourcing and batch variation are normal, but it is one of the bigger causes of odd or unexpected behaviour in components.

Chris

Anonymous · January 15, 2012, 09:52

A conundrum within a puzzle! Its a bit like the tyre thing, lots of strong opinions, but little hard facts or way of obtaining them. Really frustrating.
Im sure Toyota and the like have the knowledge, but its not in their interests to release the info.

catkins · January 15, 2012, 11:54

You'd think Mr T would just say "the only thing the system is safely compatible with is our stuff.... yes, at 30 quid a litre". Job done, lots of money made for them.

Dev · January 15, 2012, 19:34

Quote from: "dick2ski"Alot of information floating around the internet is absolutely brill, but some is "received knowledge" and some of that is, for the want of a better word, cobblers.
If anyone would like to try ordinary ps fluid, I'm happy to donate a pump and rack should this prove or disprove the case.

I think a much better thing to do is a chemical analysis of the fluid rather then testing one pump without the proper equipment.
I am also sure that Toyota would not have advised this specific fluid if it was not absolutely necessary.
I think one of the big reasons why there is not a whole lot of information on the PS fluid is mainly because it's a lifetime fill.

mrzwei · January 15, 2012, 19:57

Quote from: "Dev"because it's a lifetime fill.

True, but 'lifetime' in Toyota terms is probably seven years.

Dev · January 15, 2012, 20:16

Quote from: "mrzwei"
Quote from: "Dev"because it's a lifetime fill.

True, but 'lifetime' in Toyota terms is probably seven years.

I did some study into these so called lifetime fills and the logic seems to be that the fluid may not be what causes the eventual mechanical failure. BMW also has lifetime fills for a good amount of their components and you will not find a drain plug in some cases. The question is will changing the fluid help and I think that is a tough one to answer since chemistry has taken leaps forward that the old arguments probably don't hold up as well as actual trends.
In my country people believe what mechanics tell them which is probably not a good idea for things of this nature because they are not engineers or enthusiasts.

And when we talk about speculation, I think it's somewhat foolish to think there is some kind of conspiracy from Toyota that they would want you to spend a fortune on PS fluid for a car that was not massively produced. Just my opinion and own personal experience.

mrzwei · January 15, 2012, 20:41

I hear what you say Dev and agree.

I think what I meant was that 'If it lasts 7 years then that's ok.'
'thing is now that a lot of the cars are older than that and things start to go wrong around the edges (pipes leaking, seals deteriorating, pumps breaking etc.) so the need for fluid is likely to increase. A fluid less than 30 quid a litre would be a help. I wouldn't expect Toyota to do anything and personally would use a generic fluid. I would advise others to follow the advice of the Opie oils expert.

Dev · January 15, 2012, 21:03

Quote from: "mrzwei"I hear what you say Dev and agree.

I think what I meant was that 'If it lasts 7 years then that's ok.'
'thing is now that a lot of the cars are older than that and things start to go wrong around the edges (pipes leaking, seals deteriorating, pumps breaking etc.) so the need for fluid is likely to increase. A fluid less than 30 quid a litre would be a help. I wouldn't expect Toyota to do anything and personally would use a generic fluid. I would advise others to follow the advice of the Opie oils expert.

No problems. Also consider that even if you change the fluid there is no guarantee that's going to give it new life.
When my PS pump failed I looped the lines and now it feels like a manual rack. Much better then the PS pump.

mrzwei · January 15, 2012, 21:28

Quote from: "Dev"When my PS pump failed I looped the lines and now it feels like a manual rack. Much better then the PS pump.

Bloody American English s:lol: :lol: s:lol: When you say you 'looped the lines', does that mean you just disconnected them from the pump or what?
Some performance guys on here may want to try that

oilman · January 16, 2012, 11:45

Quote from: "Dev"
Quote from: "mrzwei"
Quote from: "Dev"because it's a lifetime fill.

True, but 'lifetime' in Toyota terms is probably seven years.

I did some study into these so called lifetime fills and the logic seems to be that the fluid may not be what causes the eventual mechanical failure. BMW also has lifetime fills for a good amount of their components and you will not find a drain plug in some cases. The question is will changing the fluid help and I think that is a tough one to answer since chemistry has taken leaps forward that the old arguments probably don't hold up as well as actual trends.
In my country people believe what mechanics tell them which is probably not a good idea for things of this nature because they are not engineers or enthusiasts.

And when we talk about speculation, I think it's somewhat foolish to think there is some kind of conspiracy from Toyota that they would want you to spend a fortune on PS fluid for a car that was not massively produced. Just my opinion and own personal experience.

There is no such thing as a lifetime oil. All oil breaks down over time and when it's a few years old, it will not be protecting like it did when it came out of the factory. Manufacturers do not care about that, in fact it's a good thing as far as they are concerned as they don't want cars/parts to last forever. Manufacturers want their cars to get through the warranty period with as few problems as possible, so they tend to factory fill (at least the transmission and PAS etc) with decent oils and say they are lifetime fills. What they really mean is that while under warranty, the oils will be fine, but after the warranty is up they don't really care. Have a look at the brands that offer really long warranties (I think Hyundai and Kia have something like 5-7 years). They don't list oils as lifetime oils.

Oils may last a lot longer than they used to, but problems are showing up. A lot of German diesels are having sludge build ups when they are about 5-7 years old and on long life service schedules. The gearboxes aren't lasting like they used to either. I mention German cars as they have been using longlife/lifetime oils for longer than other brands.

Cheers

Tim

catkins · January 22, 2012, 23:32

I've only bought one litre of the stuff from Toyota. Considering I topped up with the Halfrauds stuff, travelled 30 miles and its since been parked up, will this be enough to flush and refill the system? I can't find any details about the capacity of the system but when I topped it up I put barely 300ml in before it was back to the "max" marker.