*Help* (Please!)

[K T M Rider]

I could threaten the other garage with action, however, they have offered to repair it. I'm not willing to let them  butcher it further but legally as their work is guaranteed I need to allow them the opportunity to make good the works. Which I have no faith that they will.

The best way forward from this IMO, is to actively Project Manage the garage repair.

It's already been said that a head gasket is not THAT difficult to replace and should be well within the abilities of someone claiming to offer 'garage services'.

Not that difficult to replace, but sadly not that difficult to mess it up again.

The fact that they messed it up first time around is all the justification needed for you to take a much more active interest in how they attempt a HG fix this time. Their competence may have been called into question, but it is surely in their best interests that the HG repair is done to your satisfaction, so they should be happy to allow you to take a more active role in managing that repair.

You may feel you lack a bit of the relevant knowledge but that's where MR2ROC comes in   s:) s:)  


Some points to consider:


Will they be fitting new stretch bolts? (As mentioned by Matt above)

If no, then for £25 you could consider buying and supplying these for them to fit (and asking for the old ones back as evidence that the new ones were fitted):

 m http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/HEAD-BOLT-SET ... 1408wt_754 m

Will they be getting the cylinder head skimmed?

Whether or not that is just good practice anyway, some more opinions may be along in a minute, however the service limit for flatness is 0.05mm so,

You could insist that they are able to demostrate to you that the head meets this specification prior to installation

Or, if they insist it doesn't need a skim, but you remain unconvinced you could just ask for the cylinder head, once they have removed it from the car and give it (and £40) to a cylinder head specialist:

 m http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Cylinder-head ... 1769wt_934 m

So, if through your active Project Management you have ensured that a  nicely flat and clean cylinder head is about to be installed with nice new stretch bolts (I think we'll trust them to use a new cylinder head gasket   s:roll: :roll: s:roll:  ) then the next key point is correct torque tightening of the cylinder head bolts, so I would also want as far as possible to ensure that:

they use the correct torque values

Which I believe are 49Nm plus a further angle tighten of 90 degrees

in the correct sequence

might let someone else describe that   s:lol: :lol: s:lol:  

with a suitably accurate torque wrench

 m http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Sealey-Inch-D ... 1277wt_934 m

(so you could ask if their torque wrench has a certificate of calibration, or consider borrowing one from a club member to ask them to use, or ask them to double check each reading with a different wrench etc. etc.)

A last point to consider, is that you may wish to seek their written agreement that they accepted that the stretch bolts / cylinder head skim / torque wrench / torque values you supplied / arranged (if applicable) were also done to their satisfaction, in case despite your best efforts they still mess it up and then try to blame your bolts/wrench/skim etc. etc.

Good Luck

[MelBee42]

Thanks Allan, but my concern isn't really that they won't fix the hg problem, but that they will not put the engine back right - mess up the connections, disturb other things - which is what they did last time. Having tried to speak to them about the technical details of repairs before, I can also assure you they will not listen, because I am a) a girl and b) I'm never allowed to speak to any of the mechanics anyway, it's always the receptionist. I do not trust them any more nor would I trust the car after they'd touched it again!
In any case the handbrake cable would need sorting first before it went to them. At the moment, I can't get that done. (Sadly I don't have any offers from people to do it for free either!)
Smarty - already tried asking for the money back, (for blowing money on the non-starting fault, and the hg) and they've refused.
For those who think I have nothing to lose from taking it back to them... what about my sanity?!!
Ultimately I've had a problems with the car continuously since I got it last June. There's really only so much I can take!

[markiii]

random suggestion, can you pay matt a consultants fee to act as middle man and have the sensible conversation?

[Anonymous]

Mel if you could get the car to me all you would have to pay for is parts otherwise foc

[Stephster]

I feel your pain Mel, and I hate to say this as I don't want to upset you further,  but it appears you have now reached the "yes but" phase for any suggestions made to you.
Unless someone pays for the parts and fits them for free, it seems that there is not a lot else that can be done. You don't want to take it back to the garage, sue the garage, or have the money  to pay Matt to repair it. So, the only other option is to sell it - I think apart from that everyone is out of ideas.

[K T M Rider]

random suggestion, can you pay matt a consultants fee to act as middle man and have the sensible conversation?

A good idea in theory.

In practice I think it could make it hard to prove their liability if they still mess up the repair

[smarty72]

Why does the handbrake cable need sorting before it goes back to them?

As far as I understand it you don't really have an alternative.  You have a car that you can't use and don't have any money or alternatives to get it fixed.  Matt seems to have fixed the starting problems so drive it to the garage (assuming it is driveable - you don't really need the handbrake to drive it).  You may as well give them the chance to put it right (if they've agreed to do it again foc).  It's not going to fix itself!

As for your sanity, it may actually help to dump it at the garage and try to forget about it for a week or so.  You don't seem to have any immediate plans for it.

[smarty72]

Mel if you could get the car to me all you would have to pay for is parts otherwise foc

A very generous offer indeed.  I don't think you'll get a better one Mel.

[kidkarter]

ok i can't stand by anymore ! i've only been on here a few days but i'll do the cables and anything else if you can get it to sible ? i might even be able to get them working again without replacing them ? like i did with my own mk2 but get them anyway just in case ! you can take them back if i can ? i'll need a pair of rubber gloves for the home made boots ! and a benchvice rich ? as i am new here i did used to be a mechanic all be it semi qualified, im sure between us we could get most of it sorted !!!  s:) s:)

[dj2k21]

wow, well after reading this I am quite taken back, in this club there is a huge wealth of knowledge and its a massive shame that mel is going through this, I know the whole head gasket thing has been convered, but I also had a very similar thing happen to me, car drank its coolant, overheated a few times, basically the same as you, got recovered back home by the AA or actually to a local garage to diagnosed instantly that it was apparently the headgasket. I refused to believe this, took the car home, stripped the front end, and found the radiator was nackered, took it out and had re-cored for £40 and its been spot on ever since. so on that basis and from  what matt says about it being so rare for a headgasket to go. I would maybe say it was the radiator. I would check yor radiator to see if it looks new.

[Anonymous]

ok i can't stand by anymore ! i've only been on here a few days but i'll do the cables and anything else if you can get it to sible ? i might even be able to get them working again without replacing them ? like i did with my own mk2 but get them anyway just in case ! you can take them back if i can ? i'll need a pair of rubber gloves for the home made boots ! and a benchvice rich ? as i am new here i did used to be a mechanic all be it semi qualified, I'm sure between us we could get most of it sorted !!!  s:) s:)

Got a vice. As for cables best to get lots of wd40 down the inner cover. However due to pain of getting them out might be best for new.

[smarty72]

wow, well after reading this I am quite taken back, in this club there is a huge wealth of knowledge and its a massive shame that mel is going through this, I know the whole head gasket thing has been convered, but I also had a very similar thing happen to me, car drank its coolant, overheated a few times, basically the same as you, got recovered back home by the AA or actually to a local garage to diagnosed instantly that it was apparently the headgasket. I refused to believe this, took the car home, stripped the front end, and found the radiator was nackered, took it out and had re-cored for £40 and its been spot on ever since. so on that basis and from  what matt says about it being so rare for a headgasket to go. I would maybe say it was the radiator. I would check yor radiator to see if it looks new.

I think Matt has confirmed that the hg NOW needs replacing (leaking).  Whether it did before it was butchered is another question.

[carolineasb]

Hi,

Tried to post this yesterday, but don't know where it went!!

This is my take on all this coming from the "legal" side (albeit Scottish "legal" in a previous life!) and this is what I would consider doing:

1)   Ask Matt if he would be prepared to write Report on what he thinks has been damaged in car and what the state of the car is? He would obviously have to state
      what qualifications he has to write the Report.
2)   Go to Trading Standards (either with or without Report) - DO NOT go to CAB as you have to remember they are just volunteers.  TS may well already have complaints
      about this garage.
3)   Consider speaking to a Solicitor for advice and, possibly, to send a letter to the garage stating the details of your complaint and giving them say 14 days to refund
      your money before you raise a Small Claims Action against them.  If you are a member of certain Associations/Societies/Unions, you may well get free or discounted
      legal advice from a Solicitor (thinking, in particular, of the AA here!).
4)   If you do go down the Small Claims route, make sure you read all the literature you can about doing so!  Sadly, I could have helped you in Scotland but don't really know
      anything about the procedure in England and Wales. Also, I don't know about the size of this garage?? Does it appear that they would be able to pay if you are
      succesful in a Claim?
5)   Also, do an online search on the garage to see if any others are complaining about their work & just in case there is anything online that would lead you to believe that
      they could not pay you if you are successful in your claim.
6)   Make sure you keep notes about all that has happened (and the dates that anything happened) and copies of all correspondence & invoices etc.

Good luck!
Caroline

[nathanMR2]

Perhaps Mel will correct me if im wrong but i get the impression that given the garage is so local she is reluctant to rub them up the wrong way. I cant see that she is going to want to commence legal proceedings against them.

Other than the HG bodge which is clear and evident i think the garage are going to consider they have reasonable arguements that they checked things over and they 'looked' ok at the time. Any mechanical faults after this time is not down to them and could have happened a period of time after they checked it.

The garage have offered to resolve their poor workmanship so they need the opportunity to do this. I think any legal advise would suggest this unless you have a concrete case that what they have done could have caused danger to you or someone else.

Im not sure how Mel's been getting on with the coolant since the repairs were done but i get the feeling that it wasnt the HG that was the route cause but something else that they missed that caused it to overheat and the HG to go. Perhaps the water pump or a leak from the rad.

Im not sure if the handbrake can be release so she can at least get the car home or to that garage for them to sort the HG and im sure some of us can help her out sorting the handbrake cable.

[kidkarter]

ok i can't stand by anymore ! i've only been on here a few days but i'll do the cables and anything else if you can get it to sible ? i might even be able to get them working again without replacing them ? like i did with my own mk2 but get them anyway just in case ! you can take them back if i can ? i'll need a pair of rubber gloves for the home made boots ! and a benchvice rich ? as i am new here i did used to be a mechanic all be it semi qualified, I'm sure between us we could get most of it sorted !!!  s:) s:)

Got a vice. As for cables best to get lots of wd40 down the inner cover. However due to pain of getting them out might be best for new.

Yeah of coarse rich, new would be best just thinking from cost point of veiw, and I've not seen how they come off yet, that's what I had to do to my own mk2 ones to get them unjamed and they I thought were relatively easy to remove ! Belly pan down and with a little swearing off they came, Haha the hard part was getting moving again ! I had too put the stuck end (caliper) in a vice after they'd been soaking in oil for a few hours !! Haha and i should add the cables themselves were still ok with no fraying !

[MelBee42]

Sorry for the delay in replying, I wanted to not think about it for a bit and also see if I could get the car back to mine safely (which I now have).
First of all thank you very much to everyone for your kind words, and for particularly for the offers of help. I did seriously think about trying to get the car to Essex, but not sure it would make it there to be honest!
I've given the whole thing a lot of thought and sometimes, I believe, there just comes a point when you reach the end of your tether with something and have to draw a line under it and move on. I cannot justify (or afford) to spend anything more on this car now - bearing in mind that I've spent more than £3k just in repairs since I bought it last June. I don't have the energy to start any kind of a dispute with the garage nor do I have any confidence that the garage are even competent enough to fix things properly.
If it had just been the hg problem then no doubt I would have taken it back to them (and given them a lot of stick while I was at it!) but it's been non-stop problems since I bought it, so to me, enough is enough now with the whole thing.
I have arranged to borrow my parents' car for two months which will last me until I finish my job (although it is a Citroen C2...hate it!!) and at that point, I can probably live without a car for a while.
As for my '2, now that it is back at mine I will (with help!) break it for parts, as well as selling all of the various bits and bobs I've accumulated from this very forum since I've been here. Hopefully I can put all this towards getting a car in the future.
I'll start a thread on the bits and bobs/breaking car stuff soon.
Thanks again to everyone for their kinds words and support. Feel free to buy a bit of my car and put it to good use!
Sad day today as it was my last drive in it, and given I was worried all the way back about it overheating, it probably wasn't as fun as it should've been! Ah well. C'est la vie...

[loadswine]

Sad stuff Mel, but I wish you all the best with selling bits on, if that's what you have decided.  s;) s;)

[smarty72]

Sad stuff Mel, but I wish you all the best with selling bits on, if that's what you have decided.  s;) s;)

+1 You've had a rubbish ownership experience.  All the best Mel.

[K T M Rider]

Don't suppose you'll thank me for pointing this out, but if you are going to break the car anyway, you'll probably get a fair bit more for your engine if you sell it in one piece with the HG fixed, so it kind of still makes sense to take it to the garage as you would have nothing to lose (as surely even they can only add value?)

Of course, going back to the garage could be more stress, but now that you've essentially given up on getting the car back on the road, in theory there's not really anything to get too stressed about?   s:) s:)  

Just a thought

[nathanMR2]

+ 1

[Anonymous]

Mel if you like it might take longer to get it done but how about I come to you get the head lifted and to save time I'll get my old head skimmed so its ready to bolt on straight away. Also I know it not what you want to hear but stripping a motor takes alot of effort and normally only a third of it will sell.

[nathanMR2]

Mel if you like it might take longer to get it done but how about I come to you get the head lifted and to save time I'll get my old head skimmed so its ready to bolt on straight away. Also I know it not what you want to hear but stripping a motor takes alot of effort and normally only a third of it will sell.

Ill come and give you a hand if it helps

[Anonymous]

More hands the better, but it really if Mel wants to. I can understand where she lost the will to go on, but after all she has put into the car it would be ashame to let it go now.

[K T M Rider]

I could lend a hand also if I'm around (currently spending alternate weekends in Yorks.)

[Chris H]

And whilst these guys are sorting your car.....i'll take you for lunch somewhere
to take your mind off things...  s:) s:)