Loss of power when in gear

paulkeen · May 8, 2012, 22:05

Hi all,

I have followed many threads on here before for help so thanks in advance for that. This issue however doesn't appear to fit any other thread exactly. its a bit of a long drawn out sob story, however I think it may help to spell out whats happened rather than zoom in on the latest issue. It could be all related or just a collection of errors.

My car is a 2001 Roadster 1.8, has done about 100k and has been fairly well looked after. All standard parts (that I am aware of).

My problem started a little while back, the engine was producing a noise much like dragging a "chain" over metal very briefly when lifting off the acelerator and fairly constant at a little over 2k revs. I changed the oil seal on the tensioner and the noise... sort of went away, I dont go on too many long trips so assumed a good trip might raise the pressure to the point it would click that one more notch and stop the noise. Used the car for a few months and noise was still alot less and all seamed ok.

Treated the car to new plugs, oil and filter.

few more weeks motoring, max trip about 30 miles one way. All ok.

Trip to Bournemouth on the cards, checked my oil in the AM. Pleased to see it was nicely middle for diddle on the stick, pat on back for job well done on tensioner seal and oild change.

Get to about Chichester 50-60 miles into journey and there are a series of roundabouts, giving it a foot full off one of said roundabouts and its just didnt seam perky enough...

next one... hmmm still doesn't seam right.

engine sounds ok... Revs up nicely out of gear... maybe its because I am used to driving alone and the wife as dinky as she is plus the few million outfits she needs for one night away do add up in weight I guess...

On the M27 and its all ok, capable of exceeding the national speed limit if I wanted to... Not that I did.

First slope... no power. Felt like I was driving in toffee.

I pulled over to try and assess problem. Engine sounded fine through rev range. one thought was that the front right brake was binding a bit and I have since changed all discs and pads... maybe it binding still and I have just given it greater stopping power through my efforts to "fix it".

Struggle on to Bournemouth, brakes are too hot to fiddle with now anyway.

Get there and jack car up, front right is a little stiffer to turn, but not alot to write home about.

In the morning, same problems... but struggle home as not much else I can do.

Been to local Toyota... wish I hadnt bothered. Call me up to tell me there was no oil! but they have filled it up and its all ok now... phew!

Get down there and jump in car, only to find its just as gutless. Poor lad who looked at it was barely old enough to drive and I quote "it seamed pretty nippy to me when I tested it" probably drives a moped! Can't laugh though as thats more mobile than I am at the moment.

Have since had a friend round and we noticed the car was making an electrical spark/click noise while running at random times. made my hair go a bit odd so we assumed its shorting out somewhere. Took spark plug cover plate bit off and this stopped, but not improvement to performance. ALL Plugs are black as they get and wet...

So here is my problem. Car revs up ok when out of gear (although you can hear its not 100% happy) can sometimes catch it where it seams to be drowning then gets through it.

in gear... no power at all.

seams to be running very rich.

any thoughts? and yes I am aware the engine could be screwed, I am just hoping the could be somethings to look at in order to resolve the power issue. I am fairly resigned to its time coming to an end, but I get the feeling there is life in the car still.

2 of the left · May 8, 2012, 22:17

Take out plugs if they are still wet then check your plug pots - should they be filled with oil then you have a gasket problem!! s:(

s:(

paulkeen · May 8, 2012, 22:31

At the risk of sounding thicker than I already do (after reading my awful grammer in the first post). Do you mean the hole the plugs go in? they appear to be wet with petrol rather than oil. I did use alot of petrol on the trip.

2 of the left · May 8, 2012, 22:40

Yes the plug housings!! It will not be petrol in there but oil should they (plugs) be wet

Wabbitkilla · May 8, 2012, 22:44

Could be worth cleaning your maf, resetting the ecu and see what happens.
How old is the air filter?

2 of the left · May 8, 2012, 22:52

I had a similar problem with my Mk 2 - The engine casing was warped (the head)due to overheating - All the pots would fill with oil when on the move - sounds to me an engine head re-skim is in order!! s:cry: :cry: s:cry:

paulkeen · May 8, 2012, 22:57

In that case I guess it looks like a gasket problem. I used to have a Rover Coupe 1.8vvc so am only too familiar with that little joy (although it did stop the car in its tracks). What is a ball park figure for getting that sorted? I notice you are only over in Portsmouth, any recommendations on places to use?

Wabbitkilla - I have seen some stuff about the MAF, so I think I will give that a go. The air filter could probably do with a change as well. I didn't want to get too carried away with "bits" if its dead, seeing as I just did the brakes and new tyres, so lots of potentially wasted cash already. Prior to getting to Chichester the car had been performing normally, so odd to suddenly drop off... I would of expected a slow fade if the filter was getting blocked up. However I am anything but a mechanic.

ChrisGB · May 8, 2012, 23:09

You need to establish what is wrong before throwing money at it. Are all the plugs wet? Is it fuel or oil? Just getting a definitive answer to these basics will help to find a starting point.

Chris

2 of the left · May 8, 2012, 23:09

Give me a PM will give you an address of a guy who can perhaps sort it(He's based in Gosport)

paulkeen · May 8, 2012, 23:14

Quote from: "ChrisGB"You need to establish what is wrong before throwing money at it. Are all the plugs wet? Is it fuel or oil? Just getting a definitive answer to these basics will help to find a starting point.

Chris

Hi Chris,

My thoughts exactly, I thought it was petrol on the plugs (all of them).

ChrisGB · May 8, 2012, 23:30

Points to either over fueling (Mass Air Flow sensor could be on the blink), or ignition issue. Cannot think of anything obvious that would affect all four sparks. Maybe a loss of power to the coilpacks or corroded earth somewhere. If its that rich, dont run it as you risk damaging the bores. MAF is easiest to swap out. Reset the ecu by disconnecting the battery for 20 minutes.

If you can get someone to read live data from the OBD port, you may be able to find clues there too.

Chris

paulkeen · May 8, 2012, 23:37

Quote from: "ChrisGB"Points to either over fueling (Mass Air Flow sensor could be on the blink), or ignition issue. Cannot think of anything obvious that would affect all four sparks. Maybe a loss of power to the coilpacks or corroded earth somewhere. If its that rich, dont run it as you risk damaging the bores. MAF is easiest to swap out. Reset the ecu by disconnecting the battery for 20 minutes.

If you can get someone to read live data from the OBD port, you may be able to find clues there too.

Chris

Over fuelling was certainly my first thoughts, although the head gasket and these pre-cats I have read about also tick a few boxes which is a worry. I think the MAF sounds a pretty quick thing to look into before I get too depressed.

Not driving it anymore, tax ran out at the start of the month, so I did a bit of off roading and left it on the front garden.

paulkeen · May 9, 2012, 12:06

I have just cleaned the MAF, it was disappointingly clean already... First impressions are that it has made no difference, I need to go and get some more petrol though as it's getting low and I don't want to drag any potential rubbish from the fuel tank to add more problems. I will keep you posted if it makes any difference when I can give it a better test.

dcod · May 9, 2012, 12:27

Quote from: "paulkeen"I have just cleaned the MAF, it was disappointingly clean already... First impressions are that it has made no difference, I need to go and get some more petrol though as it's getting low and I don't want to drag any potential rubbish from the fuel tank to add more problems. I will keep you posted if it makes any difference when I can give it a better test.

Could be broken. Anyone near you so you can swap MAF's and at least rule it out?

paulkeen · May 9, 2012, 13:28

I don't know anyone myself with the same car locally. Anybody near Eastbourne?

2 of the left · May 9, 2012, 20:42

Have PM'd telephone no. of the guy in Gosport- I would give him your tale of woe and see what he suggests as to the way forward on this- Good luck!! s:| :| s:| You can raise him between 0830-1700

frogger · May 9, 2012, 21:08

Aside from the engine trouble - just to add that changing the discs and pads will do nothing at alllllll to help a binding caliper.
Check if its binding by checking the radiant heat of that wheel versus tothers after a hard drive (... once you get going that is s:)

s:) )

mrzwei · May 9, 2012, 21:33

This is almost certainly a crank or cam position sensor issue (I've been hung out to dry before s:lol: :lol: s:lol: ).
Had a similar problem with my old Clio and then my Z3. No cel but it threw a code. Start by pushing the wires on the sensor.

paulkeen · May 10, 2012, 23:08

Quote from: "mrzwei"This is almost certainly a crank or cam position sensor issue (I've been hung out to dry before s:lol: :lol: s:lol: ).
Had a similar problem with my old Clio and then my Z3. No cel but it threw a code. Start by pushing the wires on the sensor.

I don't suppose there is any danger of a thread on here with helpful pictures of said sensors etc... I have looked and just like at the spuermarket it will be right in front of me, but I can't see any.

I think I have an encouraging list of things to check tomorrow after work, hopefully something might start to help pin point the issue.

2 of the left · May 10, 2012, 23:26

You never did say how many of your plugs were wet! - Wet plugs (one or two} means means the engine ain't firing on all four hence loss of power- After the motor has stood overnight the fluid in the pots drains out allowing you to flash motor first thing - I still reckon it's a gasket problem!! s:cry: :cry: s:cry:

paulkeen · May 10, 2012, 23:41

Quote from: "2 of the left"You never did say how many of your plugs were wet! - Wet plugs (one or two} means means the engine ain't firing on all four hence loss of power- After the motor has stood overnight the fluid in the pots drains out allowing you to flash motor first thing - I still reckon it's a gasket problem!! s:cry: :cry: s:cry:

Hi, probably lost in the ramblings of my original post. But all the plugs are black (after being only a month or so old) and all were wet, with what I am 99% sure is petrol rather than oil... but I fully accept I could be getting this wrong.

When your saying gasket, do you mean the Head gasket? when I have had this go on my Rover (many many times) only one, maybe two cylinders tended to be effected as once its found a weakness it doesn't blow the others. Also no Mayo in oil cap or pressure in water, but Rover symptoms may not transfer into Toyota...

Anonymous · May 10, 2012, 23:51

Plugs black its a rich burn. Now it might be its the maf gone so fuelling wrong or it burning oil. My old oil burner started to have this loss of power. If it plugs / coils or injectors it would have A miss fire.

MattPerformance · May 11, 2012, 07:44

Blocked air filter is certainly a possibility but there is another possibility that hasn't been mentioned...
It could be that a pre-cat (or two) has broken up and blocked the main cat. If the engine's using a lot of oil (?) then the contamination can cause the pre-cats to break up and when this happens it can cause sudden and massive loss of power, exactly as you describe (blocked air filer would normally be more progressive). Obviously this assumes that they haven't already been removed!! Take the manifold O2 sensors out and have a look.

K T M Rider · May 11, 2012, 11:26

Reading between the lines it sounds like your engine could be burning alot of oil. As you mainly use the car for local shortish trips then perhaps you don't have an exact feel for how quickly it uses it? Based on your first post it would seem your car burned at least 2/3 a litre on a circa 250 mile round trip.

paulkeen · May 11, 2012, 12:13

Quote from: "KTM_RIDER"Reading between the lines it sounds like your engine could be burning alot of oil. As you mainly use the car for local shortish trips then perhaps you don't have an exact feel for how quickly it uses it? Based on your first post it would seem your car burned at least 2/3 a litre on a circa 250 mile round trip.

I would agree it is now, but on previous longer hauls it hasn't used it like that. So I would say the higher useage is linked to the problem (whatever it is). I am hoping this afternoons fiddling session will help me narrow it down a bit. No rain so looks like I might get a fair bit done.