Loss of power when in gear

paulkeen · May 17, 2012, 16:48

It Lives!!!

I took off the manifold and got rid of the remaining CAT, to all those who are a little unsure about this... just do it! I was concerned about getting it right etc... it came out so easily I was almost in shock.

Opted for new gaskets at each connection because I didn't want to be messing about taking it apart again for a tiny leak.

New main CAT fitted and all the bits put back together, fired up nicely and the difference was obvious.

Quick spin round the block, marked improvement although slightly hesitant to get going. However the plugs and air filter need changing along with the oil, so this is probably the answer to that one as once it passes about 2.5k rpm it takes off up the road (to a maximum of 30mph naturally!).

Once I have changed the other bits I will report back again

AckersMR2 · May 17, 2012, 17:37

Just keep a keen eye on your oil level now, incase your engines consumed some of your precat? s:(

s:(

MattPerformance · May 17, 2012, 18:07

Quote from: "AckersMR2"Just keep a keen eye on your oil level

Nice! (That was intentional, right?!!). What he said though, oil consumption can be managed for a while but it will increase exponentially and the contamination that goes on within will eventually lead to lubrication related failure if it doesn't run out of oil first. But that could be a way off so just monitor for now (every 100 miles I'd say).

K T M Rider · May 17, 2012, 18:21

Quote from: "MattPerformance"
Quote from: "AckersMR2"Just keep a keen eye on your oil level

Yeah fingers crossed your rate of consumption is not too apauling s:P

s:P

paulkeen · May 17, 2012, 18:31

s:(

s:(

chance to make 100 miles would be a fine thing. Just went for a small trip to let it all settle in and get some life into the battery. Was all going well, what little white smoke there had been after initially putting it all back together disappeared and it was going ok. Then after about 3-4 miles some noises and bangs came from the general engine direction that can only be compared to someone smashing a box of nails about. I stopped ASAP, nothing can be seen from the outside (sounded like I was going to open it up and see lots of bits everywhere). car did then start again, awful noises so stopped it.

At this stage I call it quits and call for a tow... No towing thingy to screw in (have never had the pleasure), was expecting a towing eye so apart from giving me a lift home my tow couldn't help. Will call the AA but given that its rush hour and I'm not in the best of moods that will keep for another day.

So, speculation with Dad on the trip home... sounds like it needs to all taken apart.

P.s. Oil was fine before I set off, too hot to see if level changed

K T M Rider · May 17, 2012, 18:49

oh dear s:(

s:( really sorry to hear that, takes me straight back to April last year when my original car developed a sound just like a hammer on anvil - suspected it was big end bearings, but didn't strip the motor, just sold the car on as was and bought a facelift.

If it is crank bearings in your case, I know some members have got away with just replacing the bearing shells (crank was still ok), however if your going to start tearing the motor apart you may want to be looking at the top end too (and considering fitting the later pistons & rings, IF the bores are ok). Due to the question marks over the state of anything you don't replace and also over the rebuild standard of some recon motors out there, the preferred option is often to source a lowish mileage facelift engine from a breaker - have seen them for as little as £500 which is a bargain really, (if post 2003, sensibleish miles and properly serviced?

)

mrzwei · May 17, 2012, 19:27

From your description, it sounds like more than bearings (these will knock or rumble but usually in an orderly way and will usually go on for some time, given oil, before catastophic failure, which sadly it could be). Time to strip the engine methinks.
Sorry that your attempt at a solution didn't solve the problem but I think that you solved part of the issue for when you come to put things back together again.
Lots of options but it depends upon what you find (exactly as Alan said really, not much point in changing a couple of bits on a worn engine).
If you don't want to do it yourself then, from the feedback of others, Mat is the expert.

Things to try to determine when you get it back home are where the noise is coming from (top or bottom, front or rear)?
Is it rythmic or chaotic? Does it get worse with revs? You say it sounds like a bag of nails so it's not a knock or a rumble? Obviously don't run the engine for too long to try to determine this and check the oil first.

paulkeen · May 17, 2012, 20:14

Quote from: "mrzwei"From your description, it sounds like more than bearings (these will knock or rumble but usually in an orderly way and will usually go on for some time, given oil, before catastophic failure, which sadly it could be). Time to strip the engine methinks.
Sorry that your attempt at a solution didn't solve the problem but I think that you solved part of the issue for when you come to put things back together again.
Lots of options but it depends upon what you find (exactly as Alan said really, not much point in changing a couple of bits on a worn engine).
If you don't want to do it yourself then, from the feedback of others, Mat is the expert.

Things to try to determine when you get it back home are where the noise is coming from (top or bottom, front or rear)?
Is it rythmic or chaotic? Does it get worse with revs? You say it sounds like a bag of nails so it's not a knock or a rumble? Obviously don't run the engine for too long to try to determine this and check the oil first.

To be slightly less dramatic about the sound. Its certainly in time with the engine and gets worse as I rev. Noise is like... clattering is the best description I guess.

Agreed Matt sounds a good option, he just needs to move down South is all s:)

s:) Although looking at transporter options. So far one quote Eastbourne to Birmingham £200 ish

mrzwei · May 17, 2012, 20:42

Right, clattering would be more like the description you would give to something like a timing chain rattling around on the rhs of the engine as you look at it or, less likely, the valve train at the top of the engine.
Bearing failure is a rythmic and distinctive 'knock' from the bottom of the engine, like hitting a metal pipe with a hammer, machine gun like. Both will increase with revs.

Still a critical question is the oil loss, ie how much?

Can you say from where in the engine the noise is coming from? Not easy but a long piece of metal bar (long screwdriver or similar) held at different points on the engine and to the ear may help isolate this. (H&S issue, be careful, I nearly poked an ear drum out on one occasion because of the rotating alternator s:D

s:D ).

(And we all think they plug it into a computerised machine and it tells them where the noise is coming from s:lol: :lol: s:lol: )

The more of a description you have before you decide what to do, the better.

paulkeen · May 19, 2012, 11:12

I guess one mans clatter is another mans knocking. The AA man only needed to hear 5 seconds of it and was happy enough that a tow home was the only option and the bottom end had gone.

There had been no oil loss, I think this is damage that was done when it used up all the oil after the cat died.

I am going to bite the bullet and get Matt to work on it, just shopping around for car transporter prices. Eastbourne to Bristol - so far best effort is £199 if anyone has any ideas about a cheaper option I am all ears.

Thanks

paulkeen · May 30, 2012, 09:00

Hi All and anyone else unfortunate enough to be reading this thread in search of help!

Drove the car back from Matt yesterday and its all working very well, even feels a bit more lively, however that could be in my head after spending a few weeks behind the wheel of my wife's gutless Fiat.

If anyone needs to transport their car I will send over the details of the guy I used as I thought he was really good and £199 for Eastbourne to Bristol wasn't too bad at all when you look at it.

Thanks all for your help, shame it was all in vein as the engine was quite terminal! I would recommend Matt to anyone, no matter how far you have to travel.

K T M Rider · June 1, 2012, 10:16

Did Matt fit you a replacement engine then Paul?

Not sure what Bristol has got to do with anything, either Matt has recently moved from the Birmingham area or this is a different Matt you are talking about

??

paulkeen · June 1, 2012, 10:42

Birmingham.... oops it was a B and up north!

and yes he re-built my engine, painful but had to be done.

K T M Rider · June 1, 2012, 11:22

Oh, he rebuilt your existing motor (as you said it was terminal I thought maybe it was past saving).

I would guess as a minimum, new main & big end bearing shells, new timing chain & new pistons & rings?

Was just curious as to whether he was able to re-use your engine block and crank ?

paulkeen · June 1, 2012, 11:39

When I get a full breakdown through from him I will post it up here.

Thanks