Beginning of the End already?

shanej2k8 · June 9, 2012, 23:42

Ok, had the car back today after clutch replacement... Been down ogmoor to meet some of the welsh troops... On the way back doing around 60-70mph car cut out completely with engine management light on... I got it going and pulled into layby 200yards away and then stopped and waited 10mins... Started her back up and it sounds like a nasty nocking noise/tapping (more from the top i think (a bit like a noise i had in my Ford Probe from the Hydraulic Lifters). The car is currently on 66700k miles. Ill have more of a look/listen tomorrow but anyone got any ideas?

Anonymous · June 9, 2012, 23:47

Lifters normally mean oil problems in my past misfortunes. What's your oil looking like to start with?
Hope you can limp it home.

shanej2k8 · June 9, 2012, 23:51

Ye I gt it home no probs. Just doesn't sound right. Oil was all looking ok before went into garage... he supposedly changed it for me... will have to look tomorrow I guess :/... can't see her lettin me keep it if its something major s:(

s:(

puma2 · June 10, 2012, 00:28

s:D

s:D i hope we can help this man out with info as it was me and Pavett who he meet up with. s:D

s:D
it was his 1st meet as well and he would not have done a 1hr drive had it not bean for us asking to meet s:bounce: :bounce: s:bounce:
he is very easy to talk to and showed up some more of his very good sketches s:D

s:D
Lets try and help with this s:(

s:(

Pavett1990 · June 10, 2012, 00:30

I hope you get it sorted pal :/ as I said in text feeling a bit guilty as it was a trip you wouldn't have made if it weren't for me s:(

s:( let me know how it goes pal

Agreed Paul he's a very nice chap and to be honest I really will be gutted if his mr2 won't be on the stand come September as it is a really good looking 2....

All the best shane

ChrisGB · June 10, 2012, 00:42

No hydraulic lifters on the MR2, it has direct acting cams. Hope you get it sorted soon and for not too much money. If it is sounding poorly and has an CEL light on, see if you can get someone local with a code reader to have a look. May be something relatively cheap to fix. If it is tapping or knocking, avoid driving it. A failed bottom end shell is a relatively cheap fix if the crank is not damaged, but run it like that and you risk breaking a con rod or scoring the crank.

Chris

shanej2k8 · June 10, 2012, 02:01

would any of this have any thing to do with clutch fitting that i had done today? just pising in the wind here like myself...

Wabbitkilla · June 10, 2012, 07:08

Does the noise stop or lessen when you press the clutch down?

Sent from a planet somewhere nearby

Anonymous · June 10, 2012, 10:59

Don't explain the light coming on if it was clutch related would it?
Think a diagnostic and expert ear is needed :/

Wabbitkilla · June 10, 2012, 11:16

Reading the code is the first step, then work on what you find.
Having the clutch replaced can dislodge all sorts.

shanej2k8 · June 10, 2012, 13:22

Right then,

Just been out to investigate....

Dipstick:
To me looks like no oil at all? Or am I reading it wrong...

Filler Cap:
Considering I started it 2 mins before i took this shot surely there should be some oil up by the cap? the little ledge bit inside was bone dry!

There was no obvious pools or drips of oil on any components or pool in the plastic panel under the car... So... Am I right to think its either burnt all the oil or THEY DIDNT FKIN PUT ANY BK IN?
I drove the same road last night in misses car that it cut out on... There were no drips or dumps of oil there...
Might be a oil issue here but when car is just ticking over it isnt knocking... Its only when you press on accelerator a little...
Oh and engine light doesnt stay on now whilst running the car (if that helps?)

loadswine · June 10, 2012, 13:27

How many miles had you covered since the "oil change"?

shanej2k8 · June 10, 2012, 13:29

Well IF they put oil in when they changed clutch possibly 130miles!

loadswine · June 10, 2012, 13:43

It is possible to burn all the oil if the engine has suddenly ingested precat material and undergone catastophic failure. Did it use much before and were precats present or removed?

Wabbitkilla · June 10, 2012, 13:49

How much oil would it normally go through before you took it to the garage?
It sounds like oil starvation has wrecked the bottom end of the engine, if the engine wasn't a regular user of oil I would hazard a guess the garage didn't do the oil change properly ... but it's only a guess!

Is the sump plug in place?
Is the oil filter in place?
Is the nappy full of oil?

Investigate fully before you challenge the garage

mrzwei · June 10, 2012, 14:22

Quote from: "shanej2k8"Right then,

Just been out to investigate....

Dipstick:
To me looks like no oil at all? Or am I reading it wrong...

Might be a oil issue here but when car is just ticking over it isnt knocking... Its only when you press on accelerator a little...
Oh and engine light doesnt stay on now whilst running the car (if that helps?)

Certainly looks like no oil on that dipstick, the paper under it would have been stained if there was.

When you pressed the accelerator did the knocking get quicker in time with the engine speed?

You say it sounds like a 'top end' noise source. This would more likely be a ticking sound, as has been said the knock is more likely to be a shot big end but you will still need to establish the cause of the oil loss.

If they didn't put any oil back in the engine then the noises would have started very quickly and you should have got the oil light coming on.

Others may well disagree but I would pull the plugs and assess their condition (if they are very black then oil is being burned and it's more than a big end issue)
A compression test will also help confirm the condition of the engine.
I would fill it with oil and run the engine. (Again, any competent mechanic will say immediately whether it's a big end isssue or not)
The oil loss is the greater worry so what has been said about precats may apply.

MattPerformance · June 10, 2012, 15:02

Has the oil light come on at all?
There's no way the car would have made 130 miles without any oil and the oil light (assuming it's functioning correctly) would definitely have come on immediately. A loose sump plug/ oil filter is not unknown so either could be the culprit. Be sure to take photos as you do your investigations and, ideally, have someone with you as a witness. A compression test may show something but if there is an oil starvation bottom end failure is rather academic. BTW, no oil on the dipstick doesn't mean no oil in the sump, just nowhere near enough. Of course, there might actually be no oil in the sump. If massive oil consumption is the issue (as opposed to a "leak") then it's not at all unheard of for a 1zz engine to consume all of its own oil in 130 miles.

Presumably the knock starts as you rev it. If it's fairly subtle it will normally be more pronounced on overrun immediately as you release the throttle.

mrzwei · June 10, 2012, 15:59

This is simply an additional afterthought but there is a link to the clutch change and oil loss via the rear crankshaft oil seal (not posted up as being a particular issue on here). You would eventually get clutch slip and drips of oil on the ground.

Just one to keep at the back of your mind if all else fails.

shanej2k8 · June 10, 2012, 16:51

ye thats exactly what its like with regards to the overrun and the noise being more profound when taking off the accel...

shanej2k8 · June 10, 2012, 16:54

the oil hadnt moved at all in 2weeks of running it...

MattPerformance · June 10, 2012, 17:10

Quote from: "shanej2k8"ye thats exactly what its like with regards to the overrun and the noise being more profound when taking off the accel...

Big end bearing failure I'm afraid. Question is, why? Good luck with your investigations.

shanej2k8 · June 10, 2012, 21:06

had the bloke from the garage down, he seemed to think big end/shells? said aslong as crankshaft is ok if shudnt be that bad of a job?

MattPerformance · June 10, 2012, 21:11

Quote from: "shanej2k8"had the bloke from the garage down, he seemed to think big end/shells? said aslong as crankshaft is ok if shudnt be that bad of a job?

Replacing the big end bearings with the engine in situ is quite straighforward (obviously, if the crank is not damaged). That said, if the bearing damage is significant it does bring into question damage to the oil pump and indeed the main bearings (possibly worth a gamble on both counts if everything else is ok)...

But you really need to know why this failure has occurred. Otherwise replacing the shells will be a waste of time and money.

shanej2k8 · June 10, 2012, 21:33

so these wuldnt just fail on their own accord?

mrzwei · June 10, 2012, 21:42

Quote from: "MattPerformance"
Quote from: "shanej2k8"had the bloke from the garage down, he seemed to think big end/shells? said aslong as crankshaft is ok if shudnt be that bad of a job?

But you really need to know why this failure has occurred. Otherwise replacing the shells will be a waste of time and money and the engine.

You need to know why the engine lost oil. The big end failure could be just the effect, not the cause.
Doing the bearings is a piece of spiss piss spiss (pardon me ) but I would sell the car on pretty quickly.