Euro spec gear ratios - did we get a bum deal?

[Anonymous]

Check out the following web site:

http://www.mrs-passion.com/SPIP/article.php3?id_article=5

[Anonymous]

Found a really interesting article (by a French contributor: Dieamond) regarding the difference in the gear ratios between the "original" Japanese (+US) versions and the European version:

http://www.mrs-passion.com/SPIP/article.php3?id_article=5

(Sorry, the site is in French... I will try and post a translation...)

Anyway, me thinks we got the bum deal here...   s:cry: :cry: s:cry:  

I cannot understand why Toyota did not configure the gear box with 4 short ratios (i.e. max. acceleration) completed with a 5th longer ratio (like an overdrive for eco/motorway driving)   s:?: :?: s:?:  

Has anyone already changed (or attempted or is thinking of changing) the gear box ratios   s:?: :?: s:?:  

John

P.S. I search the forum for any articles regarding this topic but did not find anything...

[Anonymous]

Here are some interesting figures: (perhaps this explains why the US Spyder does a 0-60 in almost half a second less than the Euro version?)

Gear ratios for European and US versions:

           Euro       US
1,        3.166,    3.166
2,        1.904,    1.904
3,        1.310,    1.392 *
4,        0.969,    1.031 *
5,        0.815,    0.815
Final,   3.941,    4.312 *

* different

I have always thought, shifting from 2nd to 3rd, that the gear was set too "high"... now I can see why!

To get an idea, here are the approximate speeds at 6500rpm for each gear (in km/h) for each configuration:

......................................1........2........3........4........5
Euro: ............................58.....96......140....190....225
Euro + 3rd & 4th US: ...58......96......132....179....225
Euro + US Final: ..........53......88......129....174....206
US: ..............................53......88......121....163....206

According to this article, the US gear ratios can be ordered at Conicelli [unfortunately I could not find them on the web site... need to phone them I guess. However they can also be ordered at your local Toy dealer, but the price is double]

Here are the reference numbers and approx. prices:
Final ratio: 33402-12041 $93.51
3rd ratio:   33034-12130 $80.24
4th ratio:   33035-20170 $80.25

Obviously, changing the gear ratios is not going to be a cheap trip to the garage... (I guess it may require a full engine out operation?)

[Anonymous]

I wish I could fit the US 3rd, 4th and final drive, but also fit a much longer 5th ratio...

I'd be really interested to know if anyone has attempted to change these ratios...

Cheers

J

[MRMike]

Here are some interesting figures: (perhaps this explains why the US Spyder does a 0-60 in almost half a second less than the Euro version?)

No I don't think so as the UK car will get to 60 using only the first two gears, which are the same ratios as the US.  Where have you taken the 0-60 times from incidentally?

[Anonymous]

Here are some interesting figures: (perhaps this explains why the US Spyder does a 0-60 in almost half a second less than the Euro version?)

No I don't think so as the UK car will get to 60 using only the first two gears, which are the same ratios as the US.  Where have you taken the 0-60 times from incidentally?

Hi there,

Here are some stats (they usually vary between 7.1 and 7.4 s) but this site actually quotes the gear ratios too...

 m http://www.supercarstats.com/car/exotic ... ider.shtml m

By the way, even though the 1st and 2nd gear ratios are the same, it's the different final ratio that makes the US MR2 Spyder accelerate more than the Euro version (in fact by quite a good margin despite the extra gear change)

IMHO The ideal set up would be 4 short gears followed by a 5th "overdrive" (a bit like the US set up, but with an even longer 5th)...

Looking at the stats, I also noticed the "stock" lateral acceleration of 0.91g. I tested my '2 and it will pull 1.1g with the TTE anti roll bars and fitted with S03s. (I also recorded a maximum lateral accel. of 1.21g... but that was when the car spun off the Circuit du Laquais in France last month ago  A beauty to drive!  
 
 


 m http://www.supercarstats.com/car/exotic ... ider.shtml m

[Tem]

I cannot understand why Toyota did not configure the gear box with 4 short ratios (i.e. max. acceleration) completed with a 5th longer ratio (like an overdrive for eco/motorway driving)   s:?: :?: s:?:  

Has anyone already changed (or attempted or is thinking of changing) the gear box ratios   s:?: :?: s:?:  

John

P.S. I search the forum for any articles regarding this topic but did not find anything...

I would kinda suck, if your speed was too low to use 5th, so you'd have to keep the revs at 4k on 4th  s;) s;)  Also, what the US gets in acceleration, they lose in high speed, it's always a trade.

I don't think anyone has actually changed the gearing, though some japanese tuners offer new ratios. It's just so much cheaper to get a new (=used) gearbox and get a 6th gear while you're at it.

There's tons of info about this on SC, you might wanna read at least this one:
 m http://www.spyderchat.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=144 m
(don't reply to it, that's in the Library)

[Anonymous]

As a general point the gearing on the '2 does seem very long. 3rd stretches to just under a ton in mine, what are the other 2 gears for then??

It is nice to be able to use third for most of my fast driving and only occasionally have to dip into second rather than constantly moving up and down the box but it does mean the engine is out of the powerband quite a lot (I accept that's often down to me not selecting the right gear for a corner!)

dave.

[dieamond]

The greeks people have bought some sets of close ratio gearings from Techno pro spirit.

In France, we measure the 0-100 kph, which is a little bit more than your 0-60 mph.
Unfortunatly, the 2nd hits the rev limiter at 99 kmh.
That's why we have crappy measures  s:-( :-( s:-(

But it's true that European gear boxes are longer than US/jap ones.
Maybe you can make a comparison between a real UK MR2 and a grey import.

[Anonymous]

Thanks for your feedback. I checked the spyderchat forum and found loads of info on the subject.

Funny how so many owners in the US want the Euro GB and vice versa. Maybe I should try a swap   s:) s:)  

Just a dumb question: the final ratio is the ratio between the layshaft and engine shaft (i.e. in the gear box), or is it set by the differential? In other words, is the differential ratio for the US and Euro models the same?

cheers

[Anonymous]

As a general point the gearing on the '2 does seem very long. 3rd stretches to just under a ton in mine, what are the other 2 gears for then??

It is nice to be able to use third for most of my fast driving and only occasionally have to dip into second rather than constantly moving up and down the box but it does mean the engine is out of the powerband quite a lot (I accept that's often down to me not selecting the right gear for a corner!)

dave.

Yes I agree with you, even the third gear is too long, and worst of all, maximum speed in a stock 6 gear car is obtained in 5 gear. The six speed is only for a really economical and boring drive.  s:? :? s:?  
 
But, as most of us like to improve the performance of the car, that is just fine. You can add a turbo, get 220hp, and have a final speed of around 250km/h, with the stock 6 speed gearbox. Then, with the big amount of extra torque added, those European stock ratios will work just fine  s:wink: :wink: s:wink:

[Anonymous]

1-100Kmph = 0-62mph IIRC

[Anonymous]

that's correct darkstar, thats why when they do a 0-100kmh test its quite a few tenths slower than 0-60mph as a lot of cars have to shift up to 3rd to acheive it.

[Tem]

Even if they didn't have to shift, 100-102kmh takes few tenths, since the acceleration gets a bit slower up there. Just as 200-202kmh would be even slower.

[dreambackup]

I do agree about the too long final gear ratio. I guess the change is all about taxes (here, in France, long ratio gearboxes are less taxed than short, maybe it's the same all around Europe).

It's always funny to think that I'm already over the speed limit when shifting to 4th... (130 kph here in France).

[Anonymous]

Didn't know about the gearbox tax in France... but not surprised: what haven't they taxed yet!!   s:shock: :shock: s:shock:     s:lol: :lol: s:lol:  

I have been checking out these gear ratios, and I am seriously thinking of getting it done. A friend of a friend who used to be a TTE rally team mechanic, may be able to help me... after all he used to have to do this kind of job in under 30 mins!

What I'm wondering is whether to change only the final ratio (and keep the Euro gears) or to change 3rd & 4th also to a US/J-spec (thus having 4 useable gears rather than just 3 on circuit/mountain road driving)?

I know that the 3rd gear feels like it is set up "too high" on the Euro GB, but with the shorter final ratio, would this still be a problem?

Any ideas?

Cheers

John

[dieamond]

3 ideas :

- get TPS gears, but just install 3rd and 4th, as the 5th short would be undrivable (for me)

- swap the whole box to a 6 speed JSpec one

- get more power, then the gear box will be OK  s:-D :-D s:-D

[Anonymous]

Actually, I could care less about 0-100kmh figures, what I care for is overtaking speed, and Euro 3rd gear lets me overtake cars without changing to 4th gear which gives me the best possible in-speed acceleration...

If we had US spec tranny, I would always have to change gears in the middle of overtaking cars or do 80 to 130 in 4th gear (nothing something to be done if you dont have a lot of space for overtaking)...

I dont know what are the speed limits on 2 lane roads in rest of the europe, but here it is 80kmh which means ppl drive around 85kmh (50mph)... so 3rd gear is PERFECT, which is probably what they were thinking of...

[Tem]

I dont know what are the speed limits on 2 lane roads in rest of the europe, but here it is 80kmh which means ppl drive around 85kmh (50mph)... so 3rd gear is PERFECT, which is probably what they were thinking of...

They are 80/100kmh over here and I like my gearing they way it is as well  s8) s8)

[Anonymous]

Has anyone got, or does anyone know where to find technical references/manuals regarding the MR2 Roadster (Euro) and MR-S (jap) gearboxes?

I need to find the correct part numbers in order to change the 3rd, 4th and final ratios of my "environmentally uber-friendly euro gear box"   s:wink: :wink: s:wink:  

Does anyone know if the gear box is included in the Toyota 1ZZ engine workshop manual?

Cheers,

phat (a.k.a. MacSpyder)

[Tem]

Does anyone know if the gear box is included in the Toyota 1ZZ engine workshop manual?

It's not, it's in the Chassis&Body manual.

It doesn't have any part numbers though  s:? :? s:?

[Anonymous]

OK, I have fitted the close ratio C56 transaxle and all I can say is :

WHY?   s:roll: :roll: s:roll:  

Why the f... did the idiots at Toyota Europe decide to screw up a 100% perfectly tuned gear box (BTW the one that's used everywhere in the world except Europe!   s:? :? s:?   ) and replace it with a gear box that makes the car feel like an underpowered Toyota Yaris??? Hey, I didn't buy the '2 to go shopping! Verstanden?   s:evil: :evil: s:evil:  

The figures and all the testimonies pointed the right way: Even TopGear said it when the '2 was launched: The gear ratios (on the C52 Euro gear box) are crap.

The final gear ratio is too small and there's a massive power gap between 2nd and 3rd... Not fun, especially when racing on a track or up a mountain pass.

Well, finally found a C56 from the states, fitted the TorSen LSD (the only good thing about the euro box) and stuck it next to "1zzy"...

The results are simply incredible! It feels like I've got an extra 30bhp to start off with (effect from using the correct final drive ratio!), then shifting through the gears is pure pleasure (the engine is kept in the max power range all the time   s:D s:D  ) Pushing the '2 hard, there's no more hesitation between 2nd and 3rd... This gear box is simply AMAZING   s:shock: :shock: s:shock:  

Man, this is what the wee engineers who developed the MR2 had originally designed. It was perfect!

I just cannot understand the logic behind the C52 transaxle. If anything could have improved the original C56 gear box, it was simply to add an overdrive (6th gear).

This is simply the best mod anybody can do to his Euro '2... And if I were still living in the UK, I would *definitely* go for a J-spec import (they come fitted with the *right* gear box   s:wink: :wink: s:wink:  ).

[Anonymous]

i drive an MRS and have to say that the gearbox is very close ratio. would be interesting to drive a UK spec '2 to feel the difference for myself.

[Anonymous]

I've compiled a simple table comparing top gear speeds for both transaxles (i.e. 5th gear):

http://www.hanneken.net/MR2/ratios.html

What's interesting is that contrary to what most people think, you don't lose much top speed (about 3 or 4 mph only). This is because the 5th gear on the Euro model works a bit like an overdrive, i.e. it's impossible to reach the red line in 5th, wheras you can with the original C56 gear box.

In Toyota's official "New Car Features" book (Euro version), they quote max speed (210 km/h=131mph) and a max cruising speed: (170km/h=106mph). I figured the max cruising speed for the C56 version is about 10 km/h slower at just under 160 km/h...

[Tem]

This is simply the best mod anybody can do to his Euro '2...

I'd rather get the C-ONE final drive  s;) s;)
 m http://www.c-one.co.jp/C-ONEPARTS/final_gear.html m

As you know, we have a 3.9 final drive...change that to 4.6 and you'll get a massive change in acceleration. LOT more than changing only the 3rd and 4th gear a bit  s;) s;)

Euro       US
1,        3.166,    3.166
2,        1.904,    1.904
3,        1.310,    1.392 *
4,        0.969,    1.031 *
5,        0.815,    0.815
Final,   3.941,    4.312 *