SMT Missing Gear & ABS Light

[crankshaft]

I had a leisurely drive, and decided to boot it on the back twisties, first thing I noticed was that the engine RPM increased for probably a second, and then was normal again.

Next thing I changed down, and it did not select a gear, warning lights came on {!} slowed down and managed to limp home.

So I started searching the forms and googling and decided to check the SMT fluid, the reservoir looks full and clean, which is a shame as I was hoping that would be the issue.

I started it and am able to select gears whilst stationary, however the {ABS} warning light is now on, I put my foot hard on the brake, selected first and revved i resulting in black smoke from the clutch, at that point I decided to take it for a drive, and accelerated and decelerated hard for about 2 miles with the gearbox and it did not miss a beat, however the ABS and {!} warning lights are still on.

I somehow think that the ABS warning light might be a clue.

Although I realize that this could potentially be any number of things, I would appreciate any advice, and if anyone has experienced something similar ?

I did not bring my OBD unit with me, and have therefore not been able to pull up any codes.

Cheers

[Steve Green]

As an SMT owner who has experienced small problems I can comment a little but not with great authority.

There is no connection between ABS and SMT that I am aware of from any of the documentation, so you may have two problems.

Like a manual gearbox, the SMT uses exactly the same clutch, so I wonder if your clutch plate has just given up.

On the web is a document available from http://www.keepandshare.com/doc/4392914/toyota-smt-training-manual-pdf-521k?da=y
EDIT: YOU WILL HAVE TO REGISTER, AND BECOME MY FRIEND TO VIEW THIS DOCUMENT

It includes a re-learn procedure that is useful for resetting the SMT mechanism for a new clutch.

Good luck.

The Australian MR2's were all SMT's or personal imports. A browse of their forums may give more and better guidance.

[edit] file location changed

[crankshaft]

Hi

Thanks for the suggestions.

I think that the only connection between the ABS and the SMT is probably the ECU, but it seems very strange that they both occurred at the same time, unless I dislodged one of the associated ABS cables when I removed the air filter housing ??

[Anonymous]

Hi

Thanks for the suggestions.

I think that the only connection between the ABS and the SMT is probably the ECU, but it seems very strange that they both occurred at the same time, unless I dislodged one of the associated ABS cables when I removed the air filter housing ??

The ABS cable to the near side rear wheel runs just past the airbox. You may have nipped it. Worth checking.

Ive also just acquired a full set of manuals for the car. If youre stuck just give me a call. Happy to run through the diagnostic tables with you. 01925234153

[thekickinside]

may be a totally red herring but....

I had engine issues on a VAG car - one of the first symptoms was ESP/ABS light coming on, if the ESP system (which you have on SMT cars i believe) cant reliably estimate the Torque form the engine the system switches itself off and lights up the warning light.

I wonder if the clutch 'slip' was enough to make the ESP throw its toys out?

I would concentrate on the 'core' issue of resolving the clutch/smt slipage...how many miles on the clutch?

On Smart Roadsters (a subject i know a little about) they use a very similar system to SMT except its electrically driven and its no unusual to eat a clutch every 30-40k miles.... The first sign is generally slipage under major boost in high gears on them

[Steve Green]

Nothing in the manuals suggests a link between ABS and SMT, it's just that things come in three's and we don't know what the third one is.

It's tempting to try to make connections that are not there. Was the sun shining, the traffic lights green, the wheels going round, etc etc

I stand by my guess of a clutch that is FUBAR and the SMT is struggling to find a bite point.

The ABS could be something as simple as a broken wire to the pads or a worn brake pad.

[thekickinside]

Is it the ABS light though, dont SMT's have ESP/VDC (or whatever Mr T brands it as)  if so then a slipping clutch could provoke the light on as a symptom?

I agree with you sounds clutch related to me too...

Oh and MR T's docs certainly say theres a feed FROM ABS to SMT for speed if nothing else...

edit ignore me that was only post 03 FL cars.....this is a 2001 so totally barking up the wrong tree.... apologies..

edit - check out this post :  l viewtopic.php?f=11&t=37648&p=453010&hilit=abs#p453010 l , also had smt & abs as a combo....

another thought, i keep reading posts about how a bad battery can put the ABS light on, also how the SMT pressure is only good for a few quick gear changes and that the SMT motor is electrical (on spyder chat a basic tenant seems to be SMT issue, first change the battery unless you KNOW its good) - is it possible that you have a dieing battery (thinking this is an easy/cheap fix if your away from base which you not having your code reader handy suggests you maybe...)

[Steve Green]

Oh and MR T's docs certainly say theres a feed FROM ABS to SMT for speed if nothing else...

edit ignore me that was only post 03 FL cars.....this is a 2001 so totally barking up the wrong tree.... apologies..

Must go and fetch my hat.

Then put my glasses on before hitting random keys.

It could be feasable that a battery could be the cause as the SMT pump is electric, just not enough oomph to pump, but the only bad experience I had with My SMT was back in -14 Deg C below freezing weather and that could have been many things. A couple of days later when things got above freezing, everything was OK, and has been ever since. Still on the same battery, so it may not be the panacea.

Can the OP clarify, is the SMT OK now and iys just the ABS light thats on, because reading the first post again is a liitle confusing.

If however you have had black smoke coming from the clutch it may be FUBAR anyway.


[edit] Sticking with things I know, like brakes, for a while

[crankshaft]

Hi all;

Just measured battery voltage as 12.8 volts, with engine off which seems fine to me, have not had chance to check when running, as the skies just opened up and I don't have any shelter ! - my gut feeling is that in this case the battery may not be the cause.

The ! Warning light is off, when I start the engine, it selects 1,2, R an N. The pump runs for 20 seconds when opening the door, and sounds as much as I can recall the same as it always did.

The black smoke, was only when I had my foot hard on the brake pedal and accelerated in first - I was trying to see where it would stall / cutout. Should the clutch fully bite and the engine stall under these conditions ?? - or maybe the ECU won't allow the clutch to fully bite until it detects wheel motion ?? - problem is that I don't recall at which point the ABS light came on, it is not flashing but on constantly and I read somewhere that this indicates an ECU fault if it is not blinking but on constantly.

I don't recall detecting any clutch slip whilst accelerating hard previously, but If you have a SMT and do the same foot hard on the brake and accelerate, does your engine stall, or do you get the warning beeps or just black smoke like me ??

The car has done 30,000 miles from new, it has never had the clutch replaced, this is a possibility, but the ABS warning light kind of throws me. I have checked around the area of the airbox and can't see any obvious nicked cables or unlatched connectors.

Hooking up a OBD is probably the best next step, but despite getting my mate to ask his mates, so far no result, last resort would be to take it to MRT in Plymouth, but I am worried as to whether I would actually get there (and back).

Thanks for this link:  l viewtopic.php?f=11&t=37648&p=453010&hilit=abs#p453010 l  - I actually read that before I posted the first thread, and the problem is there is no conclusion, the thread just kind of stops midway.

[Steve Green]

Have you read this

and this


There is more somewhere, just need to find it

[crankshaft]

Steve;

Thanks, yes I have that with my user guides, but I have owned the car for 8 years and are quite familiar with how to drive with SMT, or was there something specific which you are alerting me to ??

I just took the car out for a test drive, ABS light comes on and stays on as soon as the ignition key is on, ! waring comes on when you start moving, and goes off when ignition off and on again.

Gears did not miss a beat, I changed up and down agressively and no signs of any problems, although these things rarely happen once and go away again, still baffled with the ABS light.

I will buy a OBD scan tool tomorrow, the one I have is at home and besides, I would prefer one that is fully self contained rather than having to connect it to a notebook, fortunately the distributors for the "Launch CReader VI" are close by so I will get one, I can also use it on my SAAB as that has an intermittent starting problem which I have yet to diagnose.

Thanks

PS: Been searching for a list of OBD Codes for the 2 but can't seem to find one, anyone have a link ??
Just found them:  l viewtopic.php?f=46&t=12480 l

[normanh]

Codes are the same for all cars its just translating a few to the specifics of the 2 can be an issue.


norman

[Jon_G]

Generic codes are pretty easy to decode (most readers do this for you), but the manufacturer-specific ones can sometimes be a challenge. I find this website useful, but not perfect...  m http://www.permoveo.ltd.uk/tabid/122/OB ... fault.aspx m

[filcee]

I have known an ABS light be thrown by "dirty sensors" (according to the stealer), though it doesn't seem like you do enough mileage to have accumulated that amount of crud.  My case was on a 1996 Seat Ibiza that was pushing 80k miles in 4 years.  It suffered a number of seemingly related/unrelated warning light issues according to the weather/time of day/phase of the moon, and this was one of them.  Apparently a good clean sorted it all out, though the problem was back again several weeks later if I recall correctly..  Might be worth checking that wiring and sensors are all in good condition in any case.

[Anonymous]

Just having a squint through the official manual. The diagnostic section for the SMT system is 140 pages long. There are about 50 OBD codes specific to the system which are not on our list.

[crankshaft]

Hmmm;

Plugged in the reader and started the car, no errors shown, pulled forward and stopped, and then it would not select a gear and the green light was flashing.

Switched off the ignition, started and managed to get the gears back, error code P0780 - Shift Error shown, but no record whatsoever of the ABS light being on or what may have triggered it.

 m http://www.permoveo.ltd.uk/tabid/122/OB ... fault.aspx m

Should the ABS warning throw up an error code ??

PeterC

[Wabbitkilla]

I believe the ABS ecu is separate to the engine ECU so it's likely it wouldn't show up a code.
I'm no expert of SMT's, but I think you have two issues here that just happen to have occurred at the same time.

As others have said the gearchange issue sounds to be clutch related, the ABS needs to you check out all the sensor wires are ok.

[crankshaft]

Thanks;

I have just done a ABS diagnostic check an it throws out errors 31 & 34, which is Left rear and right front sensors.

The chances of 2 sensors going out at exactly the same time must be pretty remote, and the SMT playing up also at the same time, I am beginning to think that there is a link somewhere with this.

I have checked the ABS sensor in static mode on these wheels and in the diode range, they both show very similar voltage drop across the sensors, but have yet to spin the wheels whilst measuring. I have a pocket oscilloscope with me and could probably see the pulses from the sensors once I can jack up the wheels.

EDITED:

OK, partial result, I have cleared the ABS error, now no error lights at all and no fault codes, gears selecting OK, but I have a feeling this is not the end of the story !!

PeterC

[crankshaft]

I took the 2 out for a drive today after extinguishing all of the error lights / codes, soon as I started moving I got the (!) waring and the ABS light came on.

Changed up and down through the gears flawlessly, but the 2 lights remained on.

Seems like there is still a problem with left rear ABS sensor showing code 34, does anyone know the part numbers or where I can find the part numbers for these ABS sensors ??

I now suspect that the SMT will still work with one wheel's ABS sensor error, but if it is more than 1 then it throws a wobbly.

PeterC

[Anonymous]

Both fronts are 89544-52010
rear R 89545-17030
Rear L 89546-17030

Ive tried a couple of times to get them out of the hubs, but they just break. Easier to change the hub.

[crankshaft]

Hi;

Thanks for the part numbers, but I have now concluded that although this is sensor-related, I don't think it's the sensors:

Here's the ABS error codes thrown up after separate drives in the last few days:

31-34
34-34
33-34
31-33-34

31 is front left, 33 & 34 are rears

In addition I now have ECU error code P0715 which is input shaft sensor malfunction.

I have tested all 4 sensors using various methods, and cannot detect any pulse from the sensors, additionally there is no power being fed to the sensors with the ignition on, but I don't know whether the sensors on the MR2 are active or passive WSS, I suspect they are passive and don't require external power, but are not sure. Disconnecting each sensor one by one illuminates the ABS light, reconnect them and they are recognized and abs light goes off, the errors can be cleared until the next drive.

These somewhat random errors are leading me to think that this is related to a harness / connector or one of the ECUs.

After clearing all errors, starting and pulling away, all warnings are off, quickly the (!) light comes on suggesting that the SMT system is not getting the correct wheel speed and that the input shaft is rotating, but the wheels don't appear to be, then touch the brakes and the ABS light comes on. The gearbox is selecting up and down the gears OK.

This block diagram shows that the SMT has feedback for all 4 individual wheel speeds:

As I travel a lot I just don't have the time to spend now or when I return to diagnose any further, I may be forced into selling with a known ABS error condition, of course I am very reluctant to do that as we have been together for 8 years now !

[mikecobra427]

Hi just wanted to make sure you had put the correct code because from the information I have P0715 is: Input/Turbine Speed Sensor Circuit Malfunction and P0751 is: Shift Solenoid (A) Performance or Stuck Off. (Which I think relates to Auto trans not SMT)

Maybe D!ck could check in the diagnostic codes in his manual?

Anyway just didn't want you barking up the wrong tree.

Mike

Had a quick search on Spyderchat and thought this might be of interest to you and anyone else with an SMT for that matter:

P07XX Transmission

P0700 Transmission Control System Malfunction
P0701 Transmission Control System Range/Performance
P0702 Transmission Control System Electrical
P0703 Torque Converter/Brake Switch B Circuit Malfunction
P0704 Clutch Switch Input Circuit Malfunction
P0705 Transmission Range Sensor Circuit Malfunction (PRNDL Input)
P0706 Transmission Range Sensor Circuit Range/Performance
P0707 Transmission Range Sensor Circuit Low Input
P0708 Transmission Range Sensor Circuit High Input
P0709 Transmission Range Sensor Circuit Intermittent
P0710 Transmission Fluid Temperature Sensor Circuit Malfunction
P0711 Transmission Fluid Temperature Sensor Circuit Range/Performance
P0712 Transmission Fluid Temperature Sensor Circuit Low Input
P0713 Transmission Fluid Temperature Sensor Circuit High Input
P0714 Transmission Fluid Temperature Sensor Circuit Intermittent
P0715 Input/Turbine Speed Sensor Circuit Malfunction
P0716 Input/Turbine Speed Sensor Circuit Range/Performance
P0717 Input/Turbine Speed Sensor Circuit No Signal
P0718 Input/Turbine Speed Sensor Circuit Intermittent
P0719 Torque Converter/Brake Switch B Circuit Low
P0720 Output Speed Sensor Circuit Malfunction
P0721 Output Speed Sensor Circuit Range/Performance
P0722 Output Speed Sensor Circuit No Signal
P0723 Output Speed Sensor Circuit Intermittent
P0724 Torque Converter/Brake Switch B Circuit High
P0725 Engine Speed Input Circuit Malfunction
P0726 Engine Speed Input Circuit Range/Performance
P0727 Engine Speed Input Circuit No Signal
P0728 Engine Speed Input Circuit Intermittent
P0730 Incorrect Gear Ratio
P0731 Gear 1 Incorrect Ratio
P0732 Gear 2 Incorrect Ratio
P0733 Gear 3 Incorrect Ratio
P0734 Gear 4 Incorrect Ratio
P0735 Gear 5 Incorrect Ratio
P0736 Reverse Incorrect Ratio
P0740 Torque Converter Clutch Circuit Malfunction
P0741 Torque Converter Clutch Circuit Performance or Stuck Off
P0742 Torque Converter Clutch Circuit Stuck On
P0743 Torque Converter Clutch Circuit Electrical
P0744 Torque Converter Clutch Circuit Intermittent
P0745 Pressure Control Solenoid Malfunction
P0746 Pressure Control Solenoid Performance or Stuck Off
P0747 Pressure Control Solenoid Stuck On
P0748 Pressure Control Solenoid Electrical
P0749 Pressure Control Solenoid Intermittent
P0750 Shift Solenoid A Malfunction
P0751 Shift Solenoid A Performance or Stuck Off
P0752 Shift Solenoid A Stuck On
P0753 Shift Solenoid A Electrical
P0754 Shift Solenoid A Intermittent
P0755 Shift Solenoid B Malfunction
P0756 Shift Solenoid B Performance or Stuck Off
P0757 Shift Solenoid B Stuck On
P0758 Shift Solenoid B Electrical
P0759 Shift Solenoid B Intermittent
P0760 Shift Solenoid C Malfunction
P0761 Shift Solenoid C Performance or Stuck Off
P0762 Shift Solenoid C Stuck On
P0763 Shift Solenoid C Electrical
P0764 Shift Solenoid C Intermittent
P0765 Shift Solenoid D Malfunction
P0766 Shift Solenoid D Performance or Stuck Off
P0767 Shift Solenoid D Stuck On
P0768 Shift Solenoid D Electrical
P0769 Shift Solenoid D Intermittent
P0770 Shift Solenoid E Malfunction
P0771 Shift Solenoid E Performance or Stuck Off
P0772 Shift Solenoid E Stuck On
P0773 Shift Solenoid E Electrical
P0774 Shift Solenoid E Intermittent
P0780 Shift Malfunction
P0781 1-2 Shift Malfunction
P0782 2-3 Shift Malfunction
P0783 3-4 Shift Malfunction
P0784 4-5 Shift Malfunction
P0785 Shift/Timing Solenoid Malfunction
P0786 Shift/Timing Solenoid Range/Performance
P0787 Shift/Timing Solenoid low
P0788 Shift/Timing Solenoid High
P0789 Shift/Timing Solenoid Intermittent
P0790 Normal/Performance Switch Circuit Malfunction

P08XX Transmission

P080l Reverse Inhibit Control Circuit Malfunction
P0803 1-4 Upshift (Skip Shift) Solenoid Control Circuit Malfunction
P0804 1-4 Upshift (Skip Shift) Lamp Control Circuit Malfunction

[mikecobra427]

Some more information here from the great Cap Weir from Spyderchat:

 m http://i312.photobucket.com/albums/ll35 ... MTDTCs.jpg m

[crankshaft]

Hi, thanks, yes that was a typo error, the OBD reader displays the codes as well as the error descriptions, it was code P0715

[crankshaft]

I just took it out for a drive after clearing abs error, (!) warning and ABS lighs come on at about 30mph, I stopped, read error 34, cleared errors and tested twice more, both errors still reporting 34 so that is 3 consecutive resets/tests with the same rear left sensor error.

Very confusing, now it is showing consistent Rear Left error, whereas over the past few days it has reported errors with all sensors except front right, I wonder if the front right sensor runs along a different harness from the other 3 sensors ??