Changes to MOT and worse.

[Steve Green]

The relevance of MOT testing and the removal of Pre cats has been discussed elsewhere.

But here is some info that should have all car modifiers alarmed!

 http://www.the-ace.org.uk/armageddon/

The time will soon be here when even the slightest change from a manufacturers specification will result in an illegal vehicle.

You have been warned.

[Wabbitkilla]

Hmmm.... worrying times, retrospective too!

Would you all be happy with me contacting ACE on behalf of the club?
I'm wondering if we could get interest from all the car owners clubs in Britain and see if pressure can be brought to bear upon these EU people who are supposed to represent us ... we do after all pay our taxes to support their plush lifestyles.

[StuC]

Is this not just about the government trying to get as many cars to qualify for road tax as possible?

i.e. you modified your Beetle to be non-standard, hand over your cash!

[Wabbitkilla]

I suppose it brings up, "How many modifications does it take to have your car classified as a kit car?"

[onion86]

Forgetting paying tax to the government. No one buying any mods, a lot of business gone for exhaust fabricators, brakes, kit spraying, etc. not to mention all the hosting locations of car shows/events losing £££. Way to boost the economy   s:| :| s:|  ... that's ridiculous.

[markiii]

I suppose it brings up, "How many modifications does it take to have your car classified as a kit car?"

Nic I think thats an excellent idea

[dcod]

They want us all to buy new cars to boost the economy. Total short sightedness, however, the initial small boost would give a nice bonus to the guys who came it with.   s:( s:(

[StuC]

I suppose it brings up, "How many modifications does it take to have your car classified as a kit car?"

Anything without a monocoque chassis?

[ray835]

Hmmm.... worrying times, retrospective too!

Would you all be happy with me contacting ACE on behalf of the club?
I'm wondering if we could get interest from all the car owners clubs in Britain and see if pressure can be brought to bear upon these EU people who are supposed to represent us ... we do after all pay our taxes to support their plush lifestyles.

well you get my support .....

[Anonymous]

go for it nic time is now to get everyone together and actually stand up to the goverment.

They are trying to tax cars off the road, fuel is becoming one of those mad max films soon no one will be able to afford it and if this comes in there will be 1000's of cars being left to rot as no one will be allowed to drive them. some people will loose there jobs as they will soon not have a car to get to work. others will loose jobs due to the company shutting due to its trade. also alot of garages will shut as main dealers will see this as a way of upping the price of parts so non - main dealers will not be able to compete with the main dealers and they will loose trade and go out of buisness.

so to sum it up it comes in force congestionn will half and the unempolment levels will tripple over night.
oh and i will sod of to another country.

[dcod]

Hmmm.... worrying times, retrospective too!

Would you all be happy with me contacting ACE on behalf of the club?
I'm wondering if we could get interest from all the car owners clubs in Britain and see if pressure can be brought to bear upon these EU people who are supposed to represent us ... we do after all pay our taxes to support their plush lifestyles.

well you get my support .....

+1

[Steve Green]

Hmmm.... worrying times, retrospective too!

Would you all be happy with me contacting ACE on behalf of the club?
I'm wondering if we could get interest from all the car owners clubs in Britain and see if pressure can be brought to bear upon these EU people who are supposed to represent us ... we do after all pay our taxes to support their plush lifestyles.

If there is one person to volunteer, I would back you.
Being the bearer of bad tidings, if you need any help give me a shout.

I think the UK is a particular case in point where the modfying scene is quite vibrant and what might apply to the rest of Europe may not apply to us.
But then we blindly follow to the letter what France and their like, ignore.

[JudoKilli]

Go for it Wabbit!

I wonder how much the car modification market is worth to the UK and EU.

[aaronjb]

I suppose it brings up, "How many modifications does it take to have your car classified as a kit car?"

Anything without a monocoque chassis?

Nope.. replace the suspension, axles, transmission and engine and your MR2 will require an IVA..

Allocating a vehicle registration mark

The vehicle must score eight or more points to retain the original registration mark. If less than eight points are scored or a second-hand or modified chassis or altered monocoque bodyshell is used an Individual Vehicle Approval (IVA), enhanced single vehicle approval (ESVA), single vehicle approval (SVA) or motorcycle single vehicle approval (MSVA) certificate will be required to register the vehicle. A 'Q' prefix registration number will be allocated.

Scoring components

The following values will be allocated to the major components used:
chassis or body shell (body and chassis as one unit - monocoque ie direct replacement from the manufacturer) (original or new) = 5 points
suspension = 2 points
axles = 2 points
transmission = 2 points
steering assembly = 2 points
engine = 1 point
Where there is evidence that two vehicles have been welded together to form one (ie 'cut and shut') a 'Q' mark will be allocated, IVA, ESVA, SVA or MSVA will be required.

From:  m http://webarchive.nationalarchives.gov. ... G_10014199 m

Of course you're unlikely to replace the 'axles' (that would be the hub and knuckle on the MR2) as aftermarket parts are few and far between, and all designed for true unequal length wishbone setups (e.g. the hubs and knuckles that Ultima use).. So you'd need to replace the suspension (easy), transmission (easy), engine (easy) and steering assembly (much less easy).. or chop off the front & rear chassis members from the main tub and spaceframe them (like the bike engined race car from New Zealand that we saw here) and lose 5 points in one go, at which point you'd probably use decent suspension design, ditch the axles, fit a new engine and gearbox.. and you easily qualify as a kit car.

"Easily" being highly subjective, of course   s:lol: :lol: s:lol:  you may as well just build a kit, at that point; it would be a lot easier!

Of course, bear in mind that the EU would dearly love to outlaw all kit cars! The only reason we can still build them at all here is VOSA lobbying on our behalf..

[nathanMR2]

This is dam ludicrous! It would probably cost me more than the cars worth if I was to take my car to a garage to have all my mods removed! So id be railroaded into selling it... but wait... how could I sell it if no one would be allowed to drive it!?!?

Very sad and worrying times!  s:cry: :cry: s:cry:

[Wabbitkilla]

I'm thinking, break the car, sell the bits to rich Americans and buy a TVR.
TVR's are out of production, parts have to be fabricated, they don't really need modifying either.

[Wabbitkilla]

Actually, I must get the Ducati engine rebuilt, it's got 'E' marked modifications on it and needs no more power than it has.
It's typical Euro-Policy "How dare you have fun, we must find a way to prevent that".

Considering the active market for modifications and restorations in this country the cost to the economy would be quite large.
I wonder what Chris Evans, Jeremy Clarkson, and the likes think of it?

[Jubal]

I think this situation is being blown up a bit out of proportion. There is no way sensibly modified cars will get legislated off the road. Suspension fails and needs replacing, wheels buckle, parts go end of life and so on. The challenge will be proving "road worthiness" of the replacement parts and the criteria by which this is judged - TUV, E marking and so on. That's where the battleground is, if anywhere.

[FGrob]

I think I'll just run the Spitfire - oh sh*t what am I thinking,  s:scared: :scared: s:scared:    s:scared: :scared: s:scared:  , one thing is for sure these older cars (30 years +) are going to be worth even more  s:bounce: :bounce: s:bounce:    s:bounce: :bounce: s:bounce:   hang on I'll come to my senses in a moment.

I know I'll just wait and see what happens, things will change when the di*ks who suppose to be running this country realise just how much is at stake and how much revenue they will lose.

[K T M Rider]

15 pages of discussion on PH (and counting)

 m http://www.pistonheads.com/news/default ... ryId=26224 m


This exchange at the bottom of Page 3 seems to quite neatly sum up the argument:

People are reading far too much into this, and getting wound up by "we told you so!" and "the sky is falling!' websites written by people with zero apparent expertise in European law.


They are not. The Legislation does not permit a 'pass' without the vehicle conforming 100% to the original Type Approval. Sticking on a set of aftermarket wheels deviates from the Type Approval, therefore your car WILL NOT pass the test, and will therefore have to be referred to a BIVA Test, costing upwards of £200.

Can you honestly imagine the public outcry if millions of cars were declared unroadworthy simply because they changed their brand of wheels? The subsequent death of the wheel industry?

It will never happen. Along with legislation go interpretation and enforcement.

The same goes for most of the other non-sense. It simply isn't workable. It will either flat out go back to policy makers or will never be enforced.

[2 of the left]

15 pages of discussion on PH (and counting)

 m http://www.pistonheads.com/news/default ... ryId=26224 m


This exchange at the bottom of Page 3 seems to quite neatly sum up the argument:

People are reading far too much into this, and getting wound up by "we told you so!" and "the sky is falling!' websites written by people with zero apparent expertise in European law.


They are not. The Legislation does not permit a 'pass' without the vehicle conforming 100% to the original Type Approval. Sticking on a set of aftermarket wheels deviates from the Type Approval, therefore your car WILL NOT pass the test, and will therefore have to be referred to a BIVA Test, costing upwards of £200.

Can you honestly imagine the public outcry if millions of cars were declared unroadworthy simply because they changed their brand of wheels? The subsequent death of the wheel industry?

It will never happen. Along with legislation go interpretation and enforcement.

The same goes for most of the other non-sense. It simply isn't workable. It will either flat out go back to policy makers or will never be enforced.

That is logic - Unfortunately the misfits over the Channel are not "logical thinking!!

[K T M Rider]

if tens of thousands of cars start failing the MOT for having non standard wheels due to barmy EU bullshit (while everyone in the country is already feeling skint) , I think the UK electorate would start clamouring for that referendum

[2 of the left]

if tens of thousands of cars start failing the MOT for having non standard wheels due to barmy EU bullshit (while everyone in the country is already feeling skint) , I think the UK electorate would start clamouring for that referendum

I agree but the clowns "over the water" will bring it into EU Law and it will take months to rescind it!! - Just look at their currency fiasco !!!

[Treboeth]

Hmmm.... worrying times, retrospective too!

Would you all be happy with me contacting ACE on behalf of the club?
I'm wondering if we could get interest from all the car owners clubs in Britain and see if pressure can be brought to bear upon these EU people who are supposed to represent us ... we do after all pay our taxes to support their plush lifestyles.

Nic as in most things you have the full support of the members IMHO, we as a country rollover for Brussels far to often.

If the UK elected government have no control why do we need them and dont get me started on the Welsh DISassembly  s:wink: :wink: s:wink:

[AckersMR2]

Once Bernie gets wind of this he'll put a stop to it. The aftermarket parts we buy directly fund the Motorsport industry of which the uk is probably one of the biggest in the world, certainly in F1. If the likes of OZ, akrapovic, öhlins and Brembo can no longer sell to the general public then they won't be able to afford the r&d to go racing. It's the old "race on a Sunday, sell on a Monday" philosophy.
And that leads me to another point if the manufacturers build the cars/bikes from the factory with those trick parts, like the ones they build to sell to conform to homologation rules then why can't those very same parts be added afterwards?