Random Tyre Discussions

[chris3boro]

....also because I have only had the car 5 months, for all I know the previous owner wasnt anywhere near as careful with checking tyre pressures as he should have been, therefore allowing the edges to wear even quicker than normal. I think I'll get the new t1Rs on all round and see how it goes.

Nic-agreed, they are being replaced as soon as I get back from my holiday in the next fortnight. I am looking forward to having fresh rubber on all round, always nice have new tyres on !

[Wabbitkilla]

From memory the T1R's do tent to wear the shoulder off on the front ... theirs not necesarily anything wrong with that ... but then I do "exercise" my tyres   s:wink: :wink: s:wink:  
The Marangonis don't tend to suffer in the same way, but their tread is exceptional compared to many.

[doogz]

Interesting, seeing the comments regarding the T1-Rs excellent wet grip.

I'm of the opinion that they're pretty guff in the wet. Better than the old T1-s, but nothing like as good as 040/Eagle F1/Pilots.

I wanted something that was progressive, but not the best in terms of out and out grip, since I like chucking my car around, but I'm finding the sidewalls on the T1-R's to be a bit too soft in standard pre-facelift sizes, although having said that, it's more the fronts that are the issue. I had the car in for an alignment last week, and it's all reset to standard, but I'm taking it back tomorrow to add a bit of front toe in. I found the turn in a bit pants until I had an alignment done, although now it's much much better, but in a straight line, it feels a bit vague.

I'm told that's a characteristic of this car? It was in for an MOT last week and passed with not a single advisory, so nothing's worn to any sort of unnacceptable level at all, I was quite specific that if anything was at all baggy or loose, get it changed.

Anyway, I've rambled on a bit, but yeah, T1-R's are alright in the dry, pretty progressive, but a bit crap in the wet. Which is fun, and as a result, fine, but I wouldn't say they had particularly good grip.

[Wabbitkilla]

Golly   s:shock: :shock: s:shock:   I found the Toyos hugely better in the wet than RE040's!
Even when fresh on they outperformed the RE040's and that was on standard suspension at the time.

[doogz]

Golly   s:shock: :shock: s:shock:   I found the Toyos hugely better in the wet than RE040's!
Even when fresh on they outperformed the RE040's and that was on standard suspension at the time.

I've not tried both tyres on the MR2, but I had both of those on my Prelude, and the RE040 was a superior tyre IMO, in every way.

I also found the Maragonis you like to be utter crap, but then, when I bought my MR2 it had a pair of them on the front, and some Nangkang crap on the rears, so it wasn't very well balanced. Understeered everywhere though, very frustrating.

[Wabbitkilla]

Golly   s:shock: :shock: s:shock:   I found the Toyos hugely better in the wet than RE040's!
Even when fresh on they outperformed the RE040's and that was on standard suspension at the time.

I've not tried both tyres on the MR2, but I had both of those on my Prelude, and the RE040 was a superior tyre IMO, in every way.

I also found the Maragonis you like to be utter crap, but then, when I bought my MR2 it had a pair of them on the front, and some Nangkang crap on the rears, so it wasn't very well balanced. Understeered everywhere though, very frustrating.

So you're basing your suggestion on a totally different car, that is heavier and is front wheel drive?
And mixed tyres is obviously going to handle like crap

[doogz]

Golly   s:shock: :shock: s:shock:   I found the Toyos hugely better in the wet than RE040's!
Even when fresh on they outperformed the RE040's and that was on standard suspension at the time.

I've not tried both tyres on the MR2, but I had both of those on my Prelude, and the RE040 was a superior tyre IMO, in every way.

I also found the Maragonis you like to be utter crap, but then, when I bought my MR2 it had a pair of them on the front, and some Nangkang crap on the rears, so it wasn't very well balanced. Understeered everywhere though, very frustrating.

So you're basing your suggestion on a totally different car, that is heavier and is front wheel drive?
And mixed tyres is obviously going to handle like crap

In terms of grip, I didn't find them as, well, grippy. I severely doubt that's going to be affected by which wheels are driven. You're being obtuse. If they don't grip as well on one car, you think they'll provide more grip on another?

As for mixing tyres, that's quite a statement, given that as standard, you don't run the same load rating, width, sidewall height, or pressure, front to rear. Compound and pattern are just more variables.

[Anonymous]

yep grip is affected on a different car as the car weight change the load on the tyre hence the reason why the toyo's like a little more pressure

[doogz]

Sorry, you're going to have to explain that for me.

The car weight changes the load on the tyre, so the Toyos like more pressure?

[Wabbitkilla]

That just shows how much attention you've paid to all the tyre discussions.

However....

I've often found that a tyre that performs on one car does not perform well on every car.
Pirelli P6000's worked well on my heavy VW Bora, but were crap on a lighter car.

Hence, the T1-R's probably suit the lighter weight of the MR2, but probably not overloaded under a bigger Honda FWD.
The P6000's would probably have been fine   s:wink: :wink: s:wink:  
If you assume it's irrelevant which end of the car is driven, or where the wieght bias is then you're sadly mistaken.

Please don't suggest I'm being obtuse, I think you'll find that I'm pretty helpful and share my experience with anyone who cares to listen.
Yes it is quite a statement to say mixed tyres don't allow for consistent and safe handling on the MR2, there are a few cars in scrapyards that show this.

[Wabbitkilla]

There are plenty of people driving on many different tyres who rate them and have found through experience that Toyos operate better on this car at higher than oem pressures.

[doogz]

That just shows how much attention you've paid to all the tyre discussions.

However....

I've often found that a tyre that performs on one car does not perform well on every car.
Pirelli P6000's worked well on my heavy VW Bora, but were crap on a lighter car.

Hence, the T1-R's probably suit the lighter weight of the MR2, but probably not overloaded under a bigger Honda FWD.
The P6000's would probably have been fine   s:wink: :wink: s:wink:  
If you assume it's irrelevant which end of the car is driven, or where the wieght bias is then you're sadly mistaken.

Please don't suggest I'm being obtuse, I think you'll find that I'm pretty helpful and share my experience with anyone who cares to listen.
Yes it is quite a statement to say mixed tyres don't allow for consistent and safe handling on the MR2, there are a few cars in scrapyards that show this.

I'll happily admit I've paid approx.  sfuck fuck sfuck  all attention to tyre discussions on here. I don't think that makes my opinion or experience any less valid though, does it?

However, P6000s are probably the worst tyre I've ever encountered. I've been told they're better on heavier cars. I found them dreadful on an XJ6. Yeah, the Prelude was heavier, but it wasn't really a heavy car in the grand scheme of things, 1200kg ish? And similar power to the MR2, so the weight over the driven wheels was probably fairly similar.

If I assume it's irrelevant which end of the car is driven? Please, don't take what I say out of context. In terms of out and out grip, I found the 040 better than the T1R. Actually, I had them both on the 106 at one point, and thought the same. That doesn't necessarily make them a better tyre.

I never suggested you don't share your experience, however that doesn't mean mine is wrong, and yours is right, don't confuse your opinion with fact.

[doogz]

There are plenty of people driving on many different tyres who rate them and have found through experience that Toyos operate better on this car at higher than oem pressures.

Thanks, although that doesn't really answer the question.

[Wabbitkilla]

It's true some people prefer the 040 and feel it gives better grip, I just found the T1-R gave a better all-round performance ... but it did take a while to realise the tyre pressures could significantly improve them.   s:oops: :oops: s:oops:    s:roll: :roll: s:roll:    s:lol: :lol: s:lol:  

You have to remember that a FWD is basically dragging itself along the road ... I do enjoy both FWD and RWD cars ... you have to admit though they do require markedly different driving styles. I have heard other people with FWD cars complain about the grip from the T1-R's, and the noise from them too ... probably not as important a factor in our cars.

Mid-engined RWD cars put different demands on tyres, for one thing the car tends not to lift away from the road surface like a FWD car, the tyres get pressed into the road surface due to the leverage of the weight.

So there is an important difference why tyres may behave differently on different cars.

The RE040 tyre is better than many, the T1-R is just a different option that behaves better than some and worse than others.
The best tyres I've had on the '2 are GSD3's ... but then I'm too tight to spend money on more exotic tyres.

The Marangonis were a shot in the dark I admit, and came well recommended by people who tracked, then I found some hill climbers really rate them too. Surprisingly they work very well and anyone who's tried them on the '2 have found them to be nothing short of excellent. They do have a quirky look to them like the car is wearing Nikes   s:oops: :oops: s:oops:    s:lol: :lol: s:lol:    ut they do work well.

P6000's were at one time good tyres, but you did need a heavy car to get them to work, and again maybe they just don't suit RWD cars.
I even had BF Goorich Profiler 2 tyres on my Yaris T-Sport and they were hilariously good tyres, and severely under-rated. People had tried them on other cars and found they didn't suite them at all ... so again a tyre that didn't suit every car.

So out of all of this ... tyre choice is hugely subjective, and you have to rely on peoples' opinions and then try them and form your own.
Which is why we have the Tyre review database.

Some people even prefer mixing tyres, it's not against the law ... but, in general, the MR2 doesn't react well to mixed tyres and people have crashed as a direct result.
Certainly people have crashed with matched tyres, but it is less of a probability.

Endless discussions have gone on over the years so I better stop now

[Anonymous]

So to sum it all up opinions from experiance on here and facts can be found via GOOGLE.

[doogz]

Actually, never mind.

[Wabbitkilla]

FACTS in these cases are only opinions accepted by the establishment.   s:wink: :wink: s:wink:  

Because everyone has a different driving style you're never going to bottom the argument.
One persons experience is a fact to them, but only an opinion to others ... I accept that.

[chris3boro]

Doogz- can I ask, why did you get the alignment done with the toyos? Was it due to the wear? Would you mind taking a wuick red of my last few comments about the edges wearing quickly, Id appreciate it from another pre Facelift driver. Thanks

[thekickinside]

Opinions are like bottoms - everyones got one and they are all rather important to the person in question.

I think you also have to bear in mind the preferences of the person in question....

For example my last car (800kg,101bhp, mid engined rwd and far more go-karty the the '2) 452's were my weapon of choice for the rear, pilot sports for the front (yes in know mixinetc etc but wait)...

The reason for this was that I found that pilot sports offer HUGE grip BUT when they let go they 'switch off', 452's offer less ultimate grip but SLIDE. THe car had a slight tendancy to understeer but by putting a slightly less grippy tyre on the back and upping the presure slightly (about 1-1.5 psi) i could get a more neutral balance and towards the limit the tendency was for the tail to break away first - but in a progressive manner which i found more communicative than the pilot sports on the back where it had a tendency to revolve at a rate of knots with little warning.

Now I fully admit that pilots would have given more ultimate grip, but I found a 'solution'; that suited me better in that i dont MIND a slightly tail happy car - i can drive round that - but i dont like a 'snappy' car...

Now I am not saying that the same combination would work on  '2 (though i suspect it might!) - or that it would be to everyones taste, but its an example of why one person might thing a particualr tyre is GREAT nad another person think its doo-doo.

(oddly I liked t1r's on the VAGmobile which weighed in at 1700+kg)

[loadswine]

We aren't going to let this thread slide the way of others into an endless debate, its been done too may times before. BUT the combined wisdom in this club , for THIS car, is that mixing tyres is a bad idea. We have seen too many cars into ditches because of it.
At the end of the day it is the individual's choice, but there you have it.

[Wabbitkilla]

I also apologise if I was a bit overtly abbrasive yesterday, lack of sleep and stress made me a bit cranky.
You're still wrong though   s:P s:P

[doogz]

Doogz- can I ask, why did you get the alignment done with the toyos? Was it due to the wear? Would you mind taking a wuick red of my last few comments about the edges wearing quickly, Id appreciate it from another pre Facelift driver. Thanks

Chris, I didn't get the alignment tweaked at the same time, and one wasn't a result of the other. The car needed new tyres, the car needed the alignment done, the front toe was a bit squint.

I had the tyres done at a local place in Glasgow that a good mate owns, he has alignment equipment, but it's not as precise as the garage I use (for all the things I can't be bothered, or don't have the tools to do myself) so I had the alignment done when the car went for it's MOT. It's going back this afternoon so we can tweak the front toe some more and see what difference it makes.

As for wear on edges, I'm not sure from reading the thread if yours are wearing on the outer edge, or both edges. Both edges, obviously usually indicates underinflation, either individual edge can point to problems with the alignment in terms of toe angle. Wear on the inner edge can mean too much camber, or depending on how many miles they've done, and how you drive the car, can just be a product of having some negative camber, and wear on the outer edge can show positive camber, although this would be quite unusual, and you'd probably notice it visually, although again, depending on how you drive the car, it might be a sign that you've not got enough negative camber for the driving you're doing, and you're working the outside of the loaded tyre hard on cornering.

I've been meaning to buy myself an IR thermometer so the next time I'm messing about on track or on a hill I can see how the tyres are working, where the heat is.

So anyway, more rambling from me, where are your tyres wearing? Inner edge? Outer edge? Both edges? Do you have a print out from the last time you had the geometry checked?

Cheers

Doug

[doogz]

I also apologise if I was a bit overtly abbrasive yesterday, lack of sleep and stress made me a bit cranky.
You're still wrong though   s:P s:P

Who me?

I'm never wrong. My opinion is fact. It's just yours that's not.   s:lol: :lol: s:lol:  

Na, only messing. I can be quite opinionated, but I never mean to insult or annoy. It just kinda happens like that sometimes...

[chris3boro]

So I have narrowed it down to (new tyres all round) :

- Toyo T1-R
- Uniroyal Rainsport 2
- Vredestein Sportrac 3

The cars running the toyos at the minute and I think it handles v well. BUT, having had the car for only 6 months or so I havent had anything else on it so cant compare. The only criticism I could have of the Toyos is the soft sidewalls but as I say I cant comment on the other 2 above regarding this.
I have heard huge praise for the Rainsport 2s generally and vredestein seem to be making a name in the sports tyre section.

Has anybody tried either of the other 2 options aove, ideally on a 2 but any other experience will be more useful thann nothing. Thanks

[chris3boro]

Hmm after some searching the general thoughts FOR AN MR2 seem to be very mixed at best for the vreds and uniroyals. Its annoying that this is such a subjective topic as it means you dont know if youll be happy until youve been using them for months! My ideal tyre would be Vredestein Sessanta, but not available in the right sizes  s:( s:(