The 2012/13 winter tyre thread

[stargazer30]

Well winter wheels back from SEM today after a well needed refurb.  Considering the state they were in when they got them they have come up pretty good   s:P s:P  




All ready for the cold stuff now

[DannyN]

Down here we don't really have to worry too much about winter, I think last winter I had a light frost on the car twice and if in the unlikely event it does snow its usually gone by 9am. It wouldn't surprise me if the weather this winter will be better than the summer we've just had, spring certainly was? (I've probably jinxed it now  s:flame: :flame: s:flame:  )

Its not just the snow/frost that these tyres help with.  Any time the exterior temp drops below 7DegC the winter tyres out perform the summer tyres due to the compound of the tyre. Similar to how the F1 drivers need to get temp into the tyres for grip.  They also perform better in the wet and shift more standing water than summer tyres

[AckersMR2]

I have the luxury of it not being my daily drive so I'll just take Wabbits approach, (I drive like a wuss anyway  s:lol: :lol: s:lol:  )

[doogz]

Down here we don't really have to worry too much about winter, I think last winter I had a light frost on the car twice and if in the unlikely event it does snow its usually gone by 9am. It wouldn't surprise me if the weather this winter will be better than the summer we've just had, spring certainly was? (I've probably jinxed it now  s:flame: :flame: s:flame:  )

Its not just the snow/frost that these tyres help with.  Any time the exterior temp drops below 7DegC the winter tyres out perform the summer tyres due to the compound of the tyre. Similar to how the F1 drivers need to get temp into the tyres for grip.  They also perform better in the wet and shift more standing water than summer tyres

That's the theory, but many tests show all season, and even summer tyres, perform better in the cold and dry, and even some in the wet, when compared to the winter tyres:

 m http://www.evo.co.uk/news/evonews/27417 ... cores.html m

Obviously, in the snow and ice, winter tyres with their siped tread pattern are superior, but on dry or wet tarmac, the whole "7 degree" thing is a bit of a myth.

[kentsmudger]

Down here we don't really have to worry too much about winter, I think last winter I had a light frost on the car twice and if in the unlikely event it does snow its usually gone by 9am. It wouldn't surprise me if the weather this winter will be better than the summer we've just had, spring certainly was? (I've probably jinxed it now  s:flame: :flame: s:flame:  )

Its not just the snow/frost that these tyres help with.  Any time the exterior temp drops below 7DegC the winter tyres out perform the summer tyres due to the compound of the tyre. Similar to how the F1 drivers need to get temp into the tyres for grip.  They also perform better in the wet and shift more standing water than summer tyres

That's the theory, but many tests show all season, and even summer tyres, perform better in the cold and dry, and even some in the wet, when compared to the winter tyres:

http://www.evo.co.uk/news/evonews/274177/evo_2011_winter_tyre_test_the_scores.html

Obviously, in the snow and ice, winter tyres with their siped tread pattern are superior, but on dry or wet tarmac, the whole "7 degree" thing is a bit of a myth.

That's not what this test says to me...

Wet Tests (sub 7deg C)

Top five:
1. Pirelli Sottozero W240 Serie 2 (96.9%)
2. Continental ContiWinterContact TS 830 P (96.6%)
3. Michelin Alpin A4 (95.6%)
4. Hankook Optimo 4S (94.5%)
5. Goodyear UltraGrip Performance 2 (94.3%)

...And it's not my experience either - Cold and wet weather and my Winter tyres are much better than T1-Rs, I found. We never get completely dry roads in winter in the UK, so Winter tyres are worth it to me.

As I said earlier - They are "excellent from November to March in any of the following conditions - Cold, wet, rainy, greasy, frosty icy, snowy or even wet autumn leaves and tractor droppings." i.e. - Winter in Britain

Don't knock it till you've tried it!

[doogz]

Its not just the snow/frost that these tyres help with.  Any time the exterior temp drops below 7DegC the winter tyres out perform the summer tyres due to the compound of the tyre. Similar to how the F1 drivers need to get temp into the tyres for grip.  They also perform better in the wet and shift more standing water than summer tyres

That's the theory, but many tests show all season, and even summer tyres, perform better in the cold and dry, and even some in the wet, when compared to the winter tyres:

http://www.evo.co.uk/news/evonews/274177/evo_2011_winter_tyre_test_the_scores.html

Obviously, in the snow and ice, winter tyres with their siped tread pattern are superior, but on dry or wet tarmac, the whole "7 degree" thing is a bit of a myth.

That's not what this test says to me...

Wet Tests (sub 7deg C)

Top five:
1. Pirelli Sottozero W240 Serie 2 (96.9%)
2. Continental ContiWinterContact TS 830 P (96.6%)
3. Michelin Alpin A4 (95.6%)
4. Hankook Optimo 4S (94.5%)
5. Goodyear UltraGrip Performance 2 (94.3%)

...And it's not my experience either - Cold and wet weather and my Winter tyres are much better than T1-Rs, I found. We never get completely dry roads in winter in the UK, so Winter tyres are worth it to me.

As I said earlier - They are "excellent from November to March in any of the following conditions - Cold, wet, rainy, greasy, frosty icy, snowy or even wet autumn leaves and tractor droppings." i.e. - Winter in Britain

Don't knock it till you've tried it!

I have tried it.

That's the wet cold test. Where 2 of the 5 winter tyres are behind an all season tyre. And in the cold dry test, the 3 all season tyres tested, along with all 5 winter tyres tested, are beaten by a summer tyre.

I agree, winter tyres are going to be much better than T1-R's. Having them on my MR2, as well as previously having had them on various FWD and 4WD cars, I'm not a fan of them in bad weather, and like I said earlier in the thread, I'd highly reccommend winter tyres. I was just pointing out that the whole "Summer tyres won't grip below 7 degrees" thing is a bit of a myth. In dry conditions, pretty much any summer tyre is better than pretty much any winter tyre of comparable quality, and in wet conditions, a decent all season tyre will still be very good.

[loadswine]

I have tried Winter tyres on 2 different cars for 2 years running now, ( not the 2 though) In the dry there really isn't that much in it from what I've seen, but Jeremy is absolutely spot on, the times of moistness are very frequent in Winter months. I have found the Winter tyres more secure in the wet and they do feel a lot better on the motorway, with better water clearance than the summer items.
Winter tyres will vary in performance in different conditions, having tried the Continentals and Goodyears. Contis are amazingly good in ice and snow for sure and the Goodyears are great in the wet. Not tried an all season tyre, so can't speak for those, but the 7 degree thing is not a myth in anything other than dry conditions.
I don't use my 2 much in the winter, but if I did, winters would go on for sure.

[doogz]

Well, I did say, "in dry conditions"

I'll not need my MR2 in the winter either. Might use it for a laugh depending on the weather, but if it's bad, one of the 4WD's will be used.

[stargazer30]

Well snowing up here this morning, then hail stone so that was that.  Put the winter wheels and tyres on  :-) :-) :-)    I'd put 28psi front 34 psi rear in though to compensate for the soft side walls.  Seems good so far.

[DannyN]

It's not a myth, I've tried them and you can easily tell the difference.
More surfooted in the wet and the cold

[simers]

I went out this morning to find my 2 covered in ice... Was going to work and I could barely keep the car on the road... It was an experience let me tell you... Some laugh tho...

[Orimental]

Hi all

After posting my MR2 for sale earlier this year I found that neither my wife or I could let her go.  We've simply had too many years of enjoyable motoring to get rid and to be honest there really is nothing else around to replace her.  Thus apologies to those who expressed an interest and for any inconvenience caused   s:oops: :oops: s:oops:  

Anyway, as I'm keeping her I'm having to go through another winter of commuting.  This morning was particularly cold and for the first time in 5 years of ownership, I've decided to get some winter tyres.  Unfortunately I ditched the knackered pre-facelift alloys I had so am thinking of buying some wheels (steel preferably).

I'm sure most of you have also found that the fronts are pretty cheap but the rears are either really expensive or unavailable in certain sizes.  This got me thinking about buying some very narrow wheels as ultimately this will give better results *if* we get snow again this year.  The added bonus is that the tyres should be cheaper but I've not checked this for sure.

My question is basically this:  Has anyone done any research into possible combinations of wheels and tyres?  I'm happy to do so and post my results but thought I'd ask first.  I realise we have the staggered profile to deal with but thought that it would be possible to maintain the proportions but to narrow each by say, 10-15%.  Thus you'd have roughly 185's on the rear and 155's on the front.

Or perhaps this is a bad idea as it's a deviation from the standard fit and may affect insurance?  Given the speeds on my commute, ultimate traction won't be a problem so my main concern is traction in snow/frost/ice etc. where I believe a narrower tyre will yield better results.

Any comments would be welcome.

[Orimental]

LOL forget it guys, stupid question.  Not the tyre width but the thought that it could be done much cheaper.

Having had a look round it actually looks cheaper to just buy new tyres and to have them fitted to my existing alloys.  Although decent branded narrower tyres can be bought for less, the addition of the steel wheel bumps it all back up to roughly £100/corner.

Sadly I was on the misguided impression that steel wheels could be bought for chips.  Doh!

Apologies if this has already been looked at but sadly the search wasn't working for me earlier.

[Thudd]

After 3 exciting moments yesterday, I'm either going to have to get winter tyres or a new car  s:( s:(

I've got a new job, and the 3 possible routes all go up a wintry rural hillclimb of doom.

The weather here (Peak District) was so bad last winter that I couldn't get the car off the drive for 3 weeks. Wheelspin at tickover. And the tyres were 12 months younger then...

[Markb]

Can't wait for some snow..lol.....this didn't cost more than 2 sets of winter tyres 3 years ago....brilliant wee thing.

[jebjeb]

I bought a spare set of original wheels a couple of weeks ago and have been lazy ordering my winters. I have winters or all seasons on my other cars (run them all year round on my XC90).

Wondering whether to go for the all season Vredestein Quatrac 3 for the MR2 as it is more the cold weather performance with the odd bit of snow I am worried about. Looking at reviews, the Vred's have very good dry performance and good wet compared to most winters (and all the winters available in 206/50 r15) but not as good in the snow as the better winters. Most of my driving in Surrey will just be the frosty mornings rather than constant snow.

A full winter may just be too soft and wollowy on the '2. Might order today and will report back.

Jeb

[Wabbitkilla]

I'm 45 years old, I've been driving 27 years and never used winter tyres ... I seem to survive and the winters are far milder nowadays.

[jebjeb]

Awesome! That means after 27 years of driving, you get to learn about a trenendous upgrade you can make for not too bad a cost!

Have you done any upgrades to your car? Winter tyres are just another form of upgrade.
Do you run the cheapest of Chinese tyres on your '2 in the summer? I assume not so why not (if it is affordable) run a better tyre for the job in the winter which increases safety and performance?

The only difference with winter tyres compared to any other upgrade is that one doesn't keep the upgrade on the car all year round.

I really don't understand people who have this blinkered opinion. It's like me saying that I've been driving my MR2 for years and never had a strut brace on my car and I'm fine and don't see the need for one. Yeah, the car is ok without it but transforms with one.

Try and give some winters a try somewhere so you can judge their usefulness in a more educated way.

[simers]

I'm 45 years old, I've been driving 27 years and never used winter tyres ... I seem to survive and the winters are far milder nowadays.

I've never used a winter tire either... I'm driving legally ten years... I've used snow tires in a field but that's about it  s:lol: :lol: s:lol:


Mr2 mk3 1.8vvti 01,93 mirage 1.5,94 pulsar 1.3, 00 306 2.0 hdi

[jebjeb]

I think the problem winter tyres suffer from is that most people seem to think of them as snow tyres. It is certainly one of their major advantages; just look at some of the tests out there - Auto Express in their 2011 winter tyre test showed their control summer tyre (a very good Conti) when braking on snow from 25 mph was still doing 21 mph when the best cold weather tyre they tested had stopped! They said the summer had a quarter of the grip in traction and cornering than the winters. That's a huge difference.

In the cold and wet (much more common here in the UK), the better winters and all seasons have much better braking and cornering performance than the summer tyre.

The summer tyre still came out top in dry braking and cornering, but not by much. It all comes down to the type of driving one does and choosing the best tool for the job.

[loadswine]

I must admit, until a couple of years ago, i hadn't tried winter tyres and I had managed, ( sort of) for 35 years or more, without them. Once I did try them though, I was totally convinced, it was a revelation actually. I can still remember the first time I braked on sheet ice and the thing just pulled up!
I only use them on my daily driver, but I am happy with that choice. Don't use the 2 much in winter, and I probably wouldn't take it out on snow anyway.

[Wabbitkilla]

You see I knew that would put the cat amongst the pigeons!   s:lol: :lol: s:lol:  

I just adjust my driving to suite the conditions, people seem to think "I have winter tyres on so I can drive as I would any other time of the year".
Doesn't cost much? ... Well it doesn't cost anything if you don't use them and accept that you have to drive differently for the winter months ... and everyone knows I am particular about tyres! I don't have space to store a spare set of wheels for 3 months use, and if it cheers you up any I do have a set of Autosocks for my commuting car which I'm prone to use rather than the MR2 in the really bad weather.

The current press and howling just screams "fad" to me, and another way of making money out of people when the tyres become "low stock".

[jebjeb]

It's good that (what I hope is most of us) we adjust our driving style for the conditions. The interesting thing I find is that one only has to look at so many threads on this forum to see what people are prepared to pay and go through for performance mods to eek out a bit more feel or a bit more speed when there is a simple mod that really helps tremendously for a good proportion of the year.

Adjusting driving styles is at the very least what we should do as responsible drivers but the laws of physics still apply. For me, winter tyres allow me to adjust my driving that little bit less (and not be caught out by the unexpected or unpredictable) and still have a bunch of fun in the awesome cars we have.

Each to their own and all that. It would be really interesting if we could do a specific test in an MR2 to try and both objectively and subjectively see if it is worth it. If someone is able to furnish a race track or controlled environment on a typical cold and wet Pommie winters day, I'm happy to bring a set of T1Rs and whatever winters I get along plus the car to test!

[kentsmudger]

You see I knew that would put the cat amongst the pigeons!   s:lol: :lol: s:lol:  
I just adjust my driving to suite the conditions, people seem to think "I have winter tyres on so I can drive as I would any other time of the year".

Imagine I'm a newb Roadster owner on 4 different cheapo no-name tyres. I am not sure what this 'stagger' thing is, but that is fine because I really don't drive very fast or do trackdays - I don't 'need' the best tyre set-up, (as recommended by members on here that have tried many different tyres) as I never even break the speed limit (except maybe stretching the NSL a little on a motorway, but that's not hazardous, is it?) - What reaction would I get posting on here ?!    s:crazyeyes: :crazyeyes: s:crazyeyes:  

...I do have a set of Autosocks for my commuting car which I'm prone to use rather than the MR2 in the really bad weather.

They do work very well, and are ideal for emergency get-you-home use, when the snow is sudden and catches you out. Not great in mixed conditions - ie, some salted roads and some not - They will disintegrate unless you take them off - and put them on again when you find some more snow, etc, etc.

The current press and howling just screams "fad" to me, and another way of making money out of people when the tyres become "low stock".

They are a legal requirement across a large portion of Europe, (including parts of Spain, which surprised me) but not here - The tyre sellers are trying to sell tyres, what else would you expect them to do - Thing is, you might want to buy some!

I don't have a fall-back winter car (sounds a lot more expensive than a set of winter tyres to me!) I just use the MR2 all year round.

I do 12-hour shifts and more than once have been 'snowed out' on nights, leaving a cold London to come home and almost unable to get up my hill in Kent as no-one had gritted, or even tried to use, the hill before me. Contrast that to the trip I took on the Cat & Fiddle this February. I had trouble standing up in trainers on the ice while trying to take this photo, but did not have to 'adjust my driving to suit the conditions' - No problem with frozen melt-water across the road, no problem overtaking the nervous Volvo driver having trouble climbing some of the steeper bits - I did meet a man from the council closing the road as I came down though!


cams by kentsmudger, on Flickr

[Wabbitkilla]

Tbh I would love a set of winter tyres on the Audi, these modern eco friendly tyres are shocking in snow. However it's a company car and they won't let you do anything sensible like that.

Sent from a planet somewhere nearby