Wheels for performance

[manchestermatt1986]

I know there is a 'wheels' thread in the appreance section but im after some different information. Sorry mods if i shouldnt have made another thread.

I was reading an old 'mr2 only mag' and there was a right up about how much of a difference wheels can make to handling etc. Now there is a lots of talk and disputs about wheels and keeping them staggered etc.

When i bought my car i had some official Rays CE28's, and until i had a accident on the motorway with a scaffolding bar falling off the back of a open back lorry and ruining my £1500/£2000 wheels, i put some pre facelift 15s all round and for the last 2 years iv had team dynamics wheels. The car has never felt as good as when the rays were on.

The write up in mr2 was saying about the science and that due to factors what ever weight you save on the wheels you can double as weight off the car. for example if you had 17" cast wheels weighing 15kg and you swapped them for some 16" forged that weigh 6.4kg you save 35kg but its the equivalent of 70kg

Can anyone give me some light on this idea because im ripping my hair out on which wheels to buy next. I really cant afford some more rays and after the last ones gettin ruined and not being able to get fixed im stuck as where to go and what to get.

Even the staggers like 15"f and 16"b is it good to go 16"f and 17"r or keep it as standard sizes?

[AmeR]

I seem to recall that the Rota GT3s (I think they were) that FGRob fitted and the Rota Slipstreams that E fitted were both lighter than stock in stock 15/16 sizes, and considerably cheaper than Rays. Possible option?

The science is true about not carrying as much unsprung weight around with you.

[Goeman]

What you're talking about is called unsprung mass. It includes everything below the spring like the bottom half of the damper, hub, wishbones, brakes and wheel. This is generally why I'm reluctant to have a big break kit or 17" wheels.

You don't necessarily have to have forged as you already know they're expensive. Cast wheels can be quite light too. Look at Team Dynamics and Rotas. Going to 16" and 17" should be alright. The increase in weight is only marginal over standard wheels with something like a Race Pro 1.2. The standard wheels are very light and weigh something like 6.6kg and ~7.5kg.
 m http://www.rimstock.co.uk/wheeldetail.php?ProRace1.2 m

[Wabbitkilla]

Interesting discussion and it made me look up the weight of my wheels.
 m http://www.measurespeed.com/oz-rims-wheel-weight.php m

Turns out according to what you've said my wheels are the same weight as the standard wheels but are larger diameters.
However when people have hefted my wheels they've all said they feel lighter.
Turns out that site has weights for a great many after-market wheels ... very handy
 m http://www.measurespeed.com/index.php m

[roger]

Don't forget to take the tyre into account. A big wide tyre can weigh considerably more than a small skinny one. However I would never advocate to compromise on choice just to save weight.

[manchestermatt1986]

Well im actually riding around on Team Dynamics which the alloy shop said were light alloys that they use in certain rally, I thought they cant be as good as Rays but then again there not half the price. So maybe ill stick with them, i think there actually the pro 1.2.

My other problem i cant see to decide is that Toyota deemed it best to have 15" f and 16" r so if i have 16" all round, really i should get some 15"f or 17" r to match the orginal layout. or are 16" all round ok?

[mrzwei]

I think the theory is that the less unsprung weight you have then the quicker the suspension is able to react (less leverage or 'bounce') so basically you keep / get the wheels on the ground quicker and get better roadholding   s:roll: :roll: s:roll:  

If you do fit larger, heavier wheels / tyres then you may want to look at uprated springs / shocks as well.

[Goeman]

Don't worry too much about what Toyota put on the car. 16" all round should be fine as long as you're happy with your stagger.

[evileye_wrx]

The for sale forum on  w www.driftworks.com w  is a good place to look for decent lightweight alloys. I got my SSR Type C's from there

[FGrob]

The GT3 I had fitted weighed about 2 kg less (per wheel over stock - post facelift) with the tyre size fiited.

Having driven the car with stock wheels + stock suspension and then with Superstreets coilovers the ride / reponse was improved, changing over to the MAK's (same size as stock) did not given any real improvement as the wheels where the same weight, changing the wheels to the GT3 and then fitting the Monoflex (inverted shocks) makes a big difference to the feel of the car, I would say far better than the Superstreet / std or MAK wheels, you feel the difference most when hitting a pot hole,recovery is instant with no bounce you normally get, also the general road use is so responsive - it just feels so right.

I never had the opportunity to track the car with this combination but would expect to be able to push the car far more than I could with the older set-up.

I think Steve will be able to give you a further picture, as he has also owned several 2's.

Thanks
Rob.

[alfajerry]

On our old MX-5, over the years, we had 14", 15" and 16" wheels, all OEM Mazda.
The ride and handling and steering feel were best with the 14", although ultimate grip on *smooth* roads was better with larger wheels/wider tyres.
On our Caterham we changed the OEM 16" (which did look gorgeous) for 13" which improved ride and handling and steering feel, and also in this case grip, because we could fit Yoko 32s ,then 48s, then Toyo R888s.

[s12vea]

The GT3 I had fitted weighed about 2 kg less (per wheel over stock - post facelift) with the tyre size fiited.

Having driven the car with stock wheels + stock suspension and then with Superstreets coilovers the ride / reponse was improved, changing over to the MAK's (same size as stock) did not given any real improvement as the wheels where the same weight, changing the wheels to the GT3 and then fitting the Monoflex (inverted shocks) makes a big difference to the feel of the car, I would say far better than the Superstreet / std or MAK wheels, you feel the difference most when hitting a pot hole,recovery is instant with no bounce you normally get, also the general road use is so responsive - it just feels so right.

I never had the opportunity to track the car with this combination but would expect to be able to push the car far more than I could with the older set-up.

I think Steve will be able to give you a further picture, as he has also owned several 2's.

Thanks

I was pleasantly surprised how the gt3's and the tein monoblock work together! The car feels very nimble and reacts differently to other set ups ive previously had. Its most noticeably less crashy over bumps or dreaded pot holes. Saving weight can only be a good thing when it comes to our cars but the correct suspension set up works hand in hand.
It's hard to explain but a brisk drive on a twisty country lane and it all become very clear   s:mrgreen: :mrgreen: s:mrgreen:

[kentsmudger]

The car feels very nibble...

s:lol: :lol: s:lol:

[s12vea]

 s:| :| s:|  Whoops.... Lol

[Redfrog]

I have Enkei RPF1's (16*7 in front, 16*8 at back), and those are really light, but reasonably priced.
I really like those wheels, although i am looking for Racing Harts in 17" for the next year as the 16" is a little difficult size for buying tyres.
My choice for Tyres was Toyo Proxes R1R in 205/45-16 and 225/45-16. I like the tyres as well, but those doesn't last long and are quite expensive.
I bought those from USA ( m http://www.topspeedauto.com/Templates/AboutUs.htm m  - good service, fast delivery, price was good as well), as here in Finland i couldn't get 8" wide RPF1's. My wheels weigh only 26,6 kg (fronts are 6,2 kg and rears are 7,1 kg). Here is some information:  m http://www.enkei.com/rpf1.shtml m
I am quite sure that you'll find those in UK if you want.

[loadswine]

Nice, I like the Enkei's.  s:) s:)

[stargazer30]

I wonder if this is why my 2 feels a tad nippier on my winter wheels.  The rear wheels are a fair bit lighter than the stocks on summers as the rims are 15" vs 16" and the tyres are lighter/softer.

[Redfrog]

That's one reason (lightness), and another is the effect of 15" vs 16" wheels to the overall gear ratios.

[manchestermatt1986]

That's one reason (lightness), and another is the effect of 15" vs 16" wheels to the overall gear ratios.

please explain. should i go back to 15" for a better gear ratio or ar 16" ok?

[carlclarke]

Standard Face Lift rear wheels are 16" - can't imagine that there is anything (practical) that is detrimental.

[jonty]

As well as unsprung mass reduction, the improvement in performance from light wheels is also due to the wheel being rotating mass- kinetic energy = 1/2 mv^2, which means a lighter wheel is easier to spin and also change direction, also the faster you go the more difference there is. I haven't ever done calcs or a practical back to back, but I'd be really interested to see the difference in braking and acceleration performance from a very light wheel- it may help save the brakes a bit on track.

I've been looking at the Enkei RPF1s as well as they weight 4.1kg each in 15 x 7 (IIRC) which is the lightest I've seen without getting into £1500 a set territory. Topspeed have good customer service and if you call/email they will give you better prices than advertised in their shop or on ebay (Che even tells people to do that on Spyderchat) and also can do better shipping than ebay calculates. I got a 2zz swap manifold from them for £150 all in - shipped and customs cleared - which is pretty ridiculous!

Another option is 949 racing who do light cast 15s (4.3kg 15 x 7 IIRC) in the correct bore size, and these are nice and cheap in comparison to forged wheels without giving away the weight since the design is optimised for this PCD, so doesn't carry the extra weight needed to carry larger PCD drillings. I think you'll have a bit of a wait for the next batch, that's the main drawback.

Jonty

[Redfrog]

Manchester Matt, smaller wheel and tires (in total diameter) will cause the faster acceleration and smaller top speed,
as taller wheels in diameter will do the opposite (slower acceleration, more top speed).
In MR2's case the rear wheel+tire diameter is the one that affects the acceleration and speed, as it is RWD.
And being the RWD car with mid engine (more weight at the rear end), it does not need too much grip in front.
In other words you don't need too much rubber in the front - and you don't want too much unsprung weight there as well,
becaus you want it to have a good turn-in and you like it to quick to react (as it is already).

You must decide what you want before choosing wheel and tyre combo as it is a compromise after all.
That link might help you in order to get a clue what might be the difference in between the old and new set-up:
 m http://www.web-cars.com/math/tiresize.html m

The most people are happy with 15/15", 15"/16" or 16"/16"-combination. However, the most people like staggered set-up.

Widths of the wheel are dependent on the tyre width, and usually 6-6,5" front and 7-8" rear is ok for ZZW30's.
Here is something that might interest you:  m http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tiretech/ ... techid=198 m  
Don't buy too wide wheels, as too wide (although looks more fabulous) is more expensive, and heavier as well.

jonty, yes, i totally agree.

Ps. Please be beware of the so called "replica wheels", as a) those are not safe (they might be, but i wouldn't try anyway), c) they are heavier than the originals.
Ok, price is better, but i guess that everyone appreciates their lives and their nice MR2's more than savings in the wrong place.
It is better to save money for an appropriate set of wheels and use the original wheels than use  sshit shit sshit ty aftermarket wheels until you have enough money for it.
Video:  m http://youtu.be/BJeFB6SRslk m

[simers]

Great video... Makes you think

[Urban]

Smaller wheels usually means better handeling and accelaration. 15/16" ftw.

[Anonymous]

Not sure if ive missed something but regardless of ALLOY size the overall rolling radius should be the same as you change profile sizes to compensate. If you dont then yes you will get gearing differences but along with decalibration of speedo which is not recommended, i dont think the police will swallow that excuse anyway.