Wheels for performance

[steve b]

Well I'm actually riding around on Team Dynamics which the alloy shop said were light alloys that they use in certain rally, I thought they cant be as good as Rays but then again there not half the price. So maybe ill stick with them, i think there actually the pro 1.2.

My other problem i cant see to decide is that Toyota deemed it best to have 15" f and 16" r so if i have 16" all round, really i should get some 15"f or 17" r to match the orginal layout. or are 16" all round ok?

I had TD PR1.2 on my VX220 in 16/17 combo, they are a light good value and good looking wheel.  I have decided to go 16/17 as the Elise/VX and its huge choice of good rubber and big brake, choice for big brakes has recently reduced, AP no longer list them for the MR so may have to be Ksport 304mm kit.  I think OZ ultraleggeras are lighter again but a bit more expensive.  Heres my research so far for potential wheels, I'm only going to change when I've got through my currently rather expensive Yokos AD08's (wider than stock) / Carbotech pads on standard stuff.

[Wabbitkilla]

If you are staying na and want performance the I suggest you stick with 16" for the back and there is far more tyre choice. If you are using forced induction then 17" rears are ok but tyre choice to keep near to the original rolling radius is poor....  Believe me, I've tried hard to get suitable tyres.

16" all round shouldn't be a problem as long as they're light and you adjust tyre size at the front appropriately. I can vouch for the OZ Ultraleggeras, they are light (you will see in "show us your wheels" thread).

Rota wheels are pretty light too and worth considering.

From a planet somewhere nearby

[jonty]

If you are looking for performance I would stick 15 or 17, rolling diameter is less important to me in that I don't care if the speedo is off a few mph- it's hardly difficult to check with GPS and then modify your speeds accordingly- however with larger diameter you will feel the difference in acceleration when giving it some stick or on track. In my old peugeot 306 the difference between two different profile 16s made it stay on cam much better, but I was still always hobbled by terrible tyre choice in 16", particluarly track tyre choice, and always more expensive than the 15/17" equivalents.

That said, the main reason I am posting is I did a trackday yesterday using 195s all round on pre-facelift 15s. The ballance is really safe for fast road use, however for track it was very good for my first time on track for 2 years, if a little bit understeer biased. The only modifications I have is Matt's brace and Che adjustable arms at the rear, and this was mainly for eliminating some accident-induced geometry misalignment, which Matt has now aligned out back to stock spec. I would say that for me compromising tyre choice just to maintain the stagger is not the right thing to do, as it really doesn't feel necessary.

Finally, I don't want to be contrary but I would disagree that Rota are light- I'd group them as inexpensive, robust and stylish (and therefore tick all the boxes for the drifting scene and lots of us guys) but if you are after lightweight you will find better alternatives. Personally, I will be going for 15s, most likely Enkei RPF1 or 949 Racing, in a width to fit 195s all round whilst using the 1zz, then look to get a wider 15 for the rear for when I get the 2zz in there.

[simers]

Completely agree with your enkei statement mate... They light as anything and rota ain't a great wheel IMHO... Look the part but that's about it...

[Goeman]

I wouldn't hesitate to have Rota wheels. I'd say they're reasonably light. You certainly couldn't call then heavy for a cast wheel. They're no heavier than the standard wheels. They look good, they're cheap, sturdy and come in a lot of styles and sizes. Are they as good as BBS, OZ or Enkei? No, but they don't cost as much.

Race pro are very appealing because they're strong, light, cheap and come in pretty much any size and offset you want. There's also a problem with the majority of wheels that you can't actually get what you want. I want 16x7" on the front and 17x8" on the rear with an offset of around +45. Buggered if I can find anything other than Race Pro 2 that can offer that.

[jonty]

For me, given that I want 15s, I wouldn't have Rotas over standard wheels as purely looking at performance (weight) I struggle to see any benefit. If you do want something different (even if just for a different look) then they do tick a lot of boxes as I said above, and they do offer loads of fitments which is something of a plus since we have a bit of a niche PCD - 5x144.3 for my 200sx is so easy to find!!

[Wabbitkilla]

Obviously subjective, you've obviously experienced heavier Rotas than the ones sat at home right now. Value for money, the same weight as my OZ's, I'll talk about quality when they've been on the car a while.

As for 17" arguments, I couldn't give a toss about the needle being a few mph awry, we're talking about wheels for performance here and 17" is simply too big to maintain performance. If you have a turbo fitted giving you more torque then you will be fine, but na cars will have a noticeable performance sacrifice over standard wheels.

From a planet somewhere nearby

[steve b]

Personally, I will be going for 15s, most likely Enkei RPF1 or 949 Racing, in a width to fit 195s all round whilst using the 1zz, then look to get a wider 15 for the rear for when I get the 2zz in there.

If you ignore rolling radius 15/16 stagger gives access to S1 Exige / Elise track setup tyres 195/225 stagger, I currently run these - Yoko Advan Neovas, go up to 16/17 still 1955/225 no widers really necessary.  However I wouldn't want less tyre ,the car grips well but is still very easy to steer on the throttle had the back out round a roundabout on the way to work this morning, I have zero understeer, just doesn't happen  :-) :-) :-)

 m http://www.eliseparts.com/products/show ... van-neova/ m

Set of OZ ultraleggeras and alloy belled discs and it wouldn't suprise me if the setup ends up lighter than stock.

[jonty]

Obviously subjective, you've obviously experienced heavier Rotas than the ones sat at home right now. Value for money, the same weight as my OZ's, I'll talk about quality when they've been on the car a while.

As for 17" arguments, I couldn't give a toss about the needle being a few mph awry, we're talking about wheels for performance here and 17" is simply too big to maintain performance. If you have a turbo fitted giving you more torque then you will be fine, but na cars will have a noticeable performance sacrifice over standard wheels.

what type of Rota do you have? And what weight? Sorry if you've already said, I didn't see it earlier in the thread.

I agree 17 you're probably giving performance away, and for 16 I feel you pay a lot for the tyres, which is why I will stick to 15s.

If you ignore rolling radius 15/16 stagger gives access to S1 Exige / Elise track setup tyres 195/225 stagger, I currently run these - Yoko Advan Neovas, go up to 16/17 still 1955/225 no widers really necessary. However I wouldn't want less tyre ,the car grips well but is still very easy to steer on the throttle had the back out round a roundabout on the way to work this morning, I have zero understeer, just doesn't happen  :-) :-) :-)

 m http://www.eliseparts.com/products/show ... van-neova/ m

Set of OZ ultraleggeras and alloy belled discs and it wouldn't suprise me if the setup ends up lighter than stock.

16" ultraleggera is same weight as stock 15", and you save about 1kg with the 15", so yeah probably better than stock with alloy bells  s:) s:)  but you are still giving another 1kg away compared to the two wheels I listed.

I feel with whatever rear geometry settings Matt gave me (I need to check with him to find out the exact measurements) it's got an ever so slight understeer bias, but is also easy to control on the throttle, especially if you turn in whilst the weight is still over the fronts from braking- it pivots beautifully then. Your wheel stagger setup could allow me to go with more agressive geometry to get the grip balance forwards, but then have more rear tyre to stop it being too lairy when I get on the power... there's only one way to find out what I should do- get on track again  s:) s:)

[Wabbitkilla]

The Rota Grid 7J16 ET40 are 7.25Kg

They are heavier than my OZ Ultraleggera's....
Fronts 7J16 ET38 are 6.46Kg
Rears 7J17 ET38 are 6.94Kg

You pay your money and you take your chances, the Rota's are about half the price of the OZ's, ut the OZ's don't take kindly to bumps and potholes.
There are likely lighter rims out there, but there are also heavier ones too ... it depends how much of a compromise you're prepared to make.
I would rather have rims that survive a bit of abuse on the real roads, and I enjoy my driving.

If you were to drop to 15" Rota Grids, then you're looking at better figures, the 6.5J15 weighs in at 6.58Kg

[jonty]

none of those weights in 17" are bad tbh! I stand by my view that in stock size it's no improvement, but I agree you need a balance between weight and robustness in 'real life' when looking at aftermarket wheels.

[Wabbitkilla]

If you want lighter Rota wheens then you go for the Slipstreams and the Attacks.
This page is handy;
 m http://www.rotawheels.ca/weights.html m

The weights are published in LBs.

[jonty]

If you want lighter Rota wheens then you go for the Slipstreams and the Attacks.
This page is handy;
 m http://www.rotawheels.ca/weights.html m

The weights are published in LBs.

not keen on attack, but Slipstream look good- wouldn't mind them

[dj2k21]

Rota wheels do the job but are by no means one of the better wheels u can buy. I am a sucker for the Rota grid drifts but as a friend of mine who competes in the bdc and runs team sunset drift team once said to me.... Rota wheels are a disposable item, they are cheap because they more or less explode if you touch a kerb with them. He said they buckle rather easily too which is rather worrying because I didn't think alloy buckled so much as simply cracks under strain

Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk 2

[Wabbitkilla]

Well I guess the trick is not to hit a kerb!   s:lol: :lol: s:lol:  
At the price i guess they are disposable (especially the price I paid   s:wink: :wink: s:wink:  ), but then two of my OZ's have slight buckles or knocks caused by potholes so nothing is guaranteed not to buckle.

[dj2k21]

Haha well yeah that's the idea like wabbit lol  I guess the red and white painted kerbs on track could damage wheels if you clip them though.

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[Anonymous]

I agree when starting to look at new wheels for both the 2 and RX7 i went through tge whole range of rota wheel and priced up from rarerims etc. IMO 75% of all their range are almost exact copies of 'decent' wheels such as slipstreams are a copy of rega's etc.

They do not compare to regas bu a long margin!

[Wabbitkilla]

I agree when starting to look at new wheels for both the 2 and RX7 i went through tge whole range of rota wheel and priced up from rarerims etc. IMO 75% of all their range are almost exact copies of 'decent' wheels such as slipstreams are a copy of rega's etc.

They do not compare to regas bu a long margin!

but then they're not the price of the Rega's!   s:roll: :roll: s:roll:

[Anonymous]

Obviously you get what you pay for! I just dont see the appeal in pretending you have good wheels...

But still there are plenty worse quality on the markets, Rotas are just flooding the current market and as a result in not many years there appeal will become much less. Especially regrding grids, slipstreams and G-drifts, already 2 to a penny.

[steve b]

Just dawned on me I have a full as new set of OZ Ultraleggrea Crystal Titanium finish 15x7 ET37 wheels buried in the garage, so If I order a set of 16"s I'd have two staggered sets of 15/16's hum  :-) :-) :-)  Just spoken to larkspeed and 16x7 ET37 are £181 each.. any one interest in two 15's?

[StuC]

Would it be cheaper to buy 4 x16 if you get a taker for the 15's?

[steve b]

Would it be cheaper to buy 4 x16 if you get a taker for the 15's?

No, full set of wheel tyre package is £903 for 16"'s get some cheap 16" tyres I suppose but I don't.

[steve b]

15x7 ET37 so sits 21mm further out from stock with 5mm less inner clearance so more room around the brake calipers spoke sitting further out, 1kg lighter? at 5.6Kg.  Rather tempted to order the rears, they'd just widen track by 8mm a side, 6.6Kg   s:? :? s:?

*Edited to add, gone for it 16x7 ET37 OZ Ultraleggeras ordered for the rear, also got a fitting kit for 4 wheels, metal spigot rings to get the correct bore size £410 in total delivered from Larkspeed.

While the OZ were out put a KSport 286mm 6pot brake kit template against them and they fit.

[Anonymous]

15x7 ET37 so sits 21mm further out from stock

Sounds about spot on to bring the wheels into line with the bodywork.

[steve b]

I have Enkei RPF1's (16*7 in front, 16*8 at back), and those are really light, but reasonably priced.
I bought those from USA ( m http://www.topspeedauto.com/Templates/AboutUs.htm m  - good service, fast delivery, price was good as well), as here in Finland i couldn't get 8" wide RPF1's. My wheels weigh only 26,6 kg (fronts are 6,2 kg and rears are 7,1 kg). Here is some information:  m http://www.enkei.com/rpf1.shtml m
I am quite sure that you'll find those in UK if you want.

They are heavier than my OZ Ultraleggera's....
Fronts 7J16 ET38 are 6.46Kg
Rears 7J17 ET38 are 6.94Kg

I shipped 2x stock 16" recently and I'm pretty sure they were 17.5kg without tyres.

m http://www.midshiprunabout.org/sources/oem-wheel-specs/ m

Front Wheels Width 15″ x 6″, Offset = et45, PCD = 4 x 100, Weight = 14.6 lbs

So received my new 16x7 ET37 OZ Ultraleggeras today  s:) s:)

I popped them on the scales, came out a touch heavier than Wabbitkilla's, but my scales are not the most calibrated in the world (old bathroom job) 6.8kg.  So 600g heavier than the Enkei assuming that's a real weight not the lightest offset variant (never believe published by manufacturer weights, always the biggest bore, biggest offset).  I'm not keen on the look of the Enkei's as they seem to have  a massive thick rim and short spokes, so OZ will have to do  s:) s:)  A whole 1.95kg lighter each than stock rears according to life of bryan (only ref to rear weights I could find).





This is the spigot ring system OZ use, very good as it won't melt / deform like plastic and clips very securely in place.  Great compromise to allow wheels to fit different bore sizes but still do a good job of centering the wheels.



and for completeness of this scientific study here is the 15x7ET37 OZ Ultraleggera on the same scales 5.7Kg, 920g lighter each than stock according to midshiprunabout.org.

To finish when I swap them on I'll weigh the OEM staggered setup the same way to see what the situation is  s:) s:)