Getting 200bhp+ from 1.8vvti engine?

[Anonymous]

Got my eye on a mr2 currently has: upgraded air intake, custom exhaust, rollcage and has been slightly lightened for track days.

I'm use to driving a powerful car so would like to take the car from (is it around 140bhp~ factory standard) to into the 200's

I have a healthy budget so any recommendations or places to purchase turbo kit would be great!

Ian

[dj2k21]

Your budget is the key factor. 200 shoukd be achievable with a bolt on turbo kit. There are a few members with those. Or you could go whole hog like me and a few others and go custom turbo and forged engine.

Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk 2

[steve b]

If you want to stir the box, 2ZZGE conversion 190bhp factory standard reliable (but put a baffled sump on).  If you don't and want torque Camry V6 conversion 200bhp/200lbs torque factory standard reliable.  If you want to keep the 1ZZFE turbo it and be ready to put a new engine in every now and then (I killed my stock 1ZZFE as have many others, weak engine).

Sure people will pop up to say their turbo 1ZZ is reliable but the question to ask is do they hoon it round a track at least once a month, which I guess you'll be doing as it has a cage and is stripped.

[steve-m-uk]

I have a nearly complete turbo kit, i.e gt28r turbo,manifold,stainless exhaust,injectors,modified sump, apexi power fc  etc that i may be willing to part with . You would need to sort your own boost pipes and an intercooler though.

[Anonymous]

How much would be asking for the kit?

Also the car is a 51 plate, done 60k do I need to be worried about blowing an engine?

[steve-m-uk]

I must stress it's not a kit as such, you would need to fabricate the boost pipes and intake and whatever cooling solution you choose,i would suggest a chargecooler, but from some quick working out i will let the lot go for £2000

this would be
Garrett Gt28r ball bearing turbo,oil and water lines etc plus v-band adaptor
Cast turbo manifold with 1/8npt port for EGT sensor
Custom twin centre exit 3" stainless exhaust with v-band fitting
Apexi power fc and commander for 1zz engine (needs tuning for your setup)
Greddy E-01 boost controller
380cc injectors x4 (recently ultrasonically cleaned)
1zz sump with oil return bung welded in( you may want to use a moroso or eliseparts sump for a track based car)
plus any miscellaneous bits i've overlooked that are related to the setup.

This started out as a Hass kit and has had the issues and weak spots ironed out and parts replaced to make what i consider to be a very good setup for around 230-250hp on a 1zz engine.
Steve

[Anonymous]

If you want to stir the box, 2ZZGE conversion 190bhp factory standard reliable (but put a baffled sump on).  If you don't and want torque Camry V6 conversion 200bhp/200lbs torque factory standard reliable.  If you want to keep the 1ZZFE turbo it and be ready to put a new engine in every now and then (I killed my stock 1ZZFE as have many others, weak engine).

Sure people will pop up to say their turbo 1ZZ is reliable but the question to ask is do they hoon it round a track at least once a month, which I guess you'll be doing as it has a cage and is stripped.

I'm sorry but a well setup turbo kit even used on track is not going to kill the 1zz. The 1zz killer apart from the rings getting stuck through what is mainly poor servicing is the lack of oil in the sump round the bends, hence the big need for baffled sumps. And from what I have read on the forums the 2zz actually needs the baffled sump more than the 1zz does.

[steve-m-uk]

How much would be asking for the kit?

Also the car is a 51 plate, done 60k do I need to be worried about blowing an engine?

Well mine is a 53 plate and has been turbo'd since it was around 6 months old and the engine is sat in the shed perfectly serviceable at around 80k IIRC, in fact if you do buy the turbo gear i'll let the engine with it as a spare for another £250 how's that sound. As long as you get a reputable tuner to set it up and you have realistic goals then there is no reason a turbo 1zz can't have a very long life, track use should be fine if you take precautions like a well baffled sump and good chargecooling. Rbuckingham above is correct,the 1zz sump is way better than the 2zz sump, i've had both on the bench side by side and the 2zz has zero baffling,it's just a metal bowl whereas the 1zz has a windage plate and baffles around the pickup pipe.

[steve-m-uk]

oops double post   s:lol: :lol: s:lol:

[steve b]

How much would be asking for the kit?

Also the car is a 51 plate, done 60k do I need to be worried about blowing an engine?

Well mine is a 53 plate and has been turbo'd since it was around 6 months old and the engine is sat in the shed perfectly serviceable at around 80k IIRC, in fact if you do buy the turbo gear i'll let the engine with it as a spare for another £250 how's that sound. As long as you get a reputable tuner to set it up and you have realistic goals then there is no reason a turbo 1zz can't have a very long life, track use should be fine if you take precautions like a well baffled sump and good chargecooling. Rbuckingham above is correct,the 1zz sump is way better than the 2zz sump, i've had both on the bench side by side and the 2zz has zero baffling,it's just a metal bowl whereas the 1zz has a windage plate and baffles around the pickup pipe.

Baffled sump for either is a must both standard are rubbish.  

You'll kill a 1ZZ much quicker with a turbo than without as you'll be heating the oil to a higher temp, heat soaking the engine, higher inlet temps and sloshing oil about more arriving at corners needing to brake harder accelerating harder etc.  Add sticky trackday tyres as well and its a recipe for failure.

Road for sure they are ok, but does anyone with a 1ZZFE turbo take their car to a track say once a month or more and drive it hard?

These (2ZZGE included) are weak engines, why do you think there is a market for Honda conversions for Toyota Elises?

[Wabbitkilla]

There are several 1zz engines running turbos driven by enthusiastic drivers, probably with a couple of trackdays a year without problem. If this is a soft engine then it seems to handle strapping a turbo to it admirably. There aren't many engines you can turbocharge adding another 100bhp and maintain reliability. Zetecs fall apart like that, Honda K Series seem very handy. There are many turbo 1zz cars running standard dumps no problem. You might want to service them more frequently but that's just common sense with any engine you've boosted above its standard output.

2ZZ take to supetcharging just fine, Toyota even did it, and so did Lotus giving even higher output. The standard 2zz sump is pretty poor. Baffled examples are available from Eliseparts and Morosso and highly recommended.

If you are building a track car for racing then any car should have baffled dumps fitted, even consider dry sump..  But that's a bit more extreme.

People do Honda conversions because they're easily capable of 450bhp forced induction and are strong enough to cope as standard. They are a popular engine, they cost more than a 2zz, I suppose it's a balance to be found with what.you are prepared to pay for a given performance.

Remember the Toyota developed TTE turbo produces iro 200Bhp, 200lbft, no reliability issues above na 1zz engines as long ad you service it according to the TTE schedule which specifies nothing more than more frequent oil changes.

I'm a little tired of people belittling the Toyota engines, while they aren't the best possible, they are actually surprisingly robust and capable units.

Ask Spit, NathanMR2, Muffdan, Markiii, Aaronjb, vvt-i, Steve-m-uk, Cusyardavenger, Amer, just how bad the 1zz engine is before declaring it rubbish. It clearly isn't craps at all.

From a planet somewhere nearby

[loadswine]

And me, I've run four different turbo kits with no problems. The 1zz might just be a bit more robust than some think.

[roger]

.......and me.  220 bhp and a few track days .  No engine alterations.at all.

[steve b]

So still no one who tracks a turbo car regularly or more than a couple a year, I did 8 this summer.  I suspect someone who is building a track car will do even more.

I have a 2ZZGE as my 1ZZFE died on its 2nd trackday, when deciding how to fix it I did a lot of research, the Internet is full of hundreds of stories of 1ZZFE failure.

Want an engine that's strong for boost, try an mX5 I ran 265bhp with a GT2860RS at 12psi for 2 years and about 20 trackdays.  Never missed a beat, that's a strong engine.  Search the net and you'll find hardly any failures.

Regards Lotus supercharge so turbo must be fine.  They are fundamentally different, for a start superchargers have their own oil, the engines oil isn't squirted though effectively a part of the exhaust manifold getting cooked and boost progresses in a linear manor no mountain of torque in the mid range.  Of course if you have a decent ECU you can control boost in the same way, but it's not often done as people want pub bragging headline power and torque figures.

[Anonymous]

Steve your argument of heat soak, higher running temps all have a point but can be watched via gauges etc. Also you can improve the system to cut out the problem like your bigger front rad. So on a basis you had to upgrade your rad and your engine died from a problem does that mean the car is not suitable for track??

The other question is what did your engine die of?
**edit** the bottom end went on your old engine due to oil starvation. So I guess that will be the baffled sump arguement???.

[steve b]

Yep, baffled sump may have saved the 1ZZFE for me.  Thing is track car / road car are such different things, I count my car as a road car it isn't setup for track just to survive a few trackdays a year, that I feel have required a baffled sump and high volume rad with only 190bhp.  I have the power FC commander on the dash for temp monitoring, the stock gauge is 'dumb' it doesn't move until the cars about to boil, so people who look at the stock gauge and say 'it's fine' don't really know it is.

I like to go to the track and do 20 mins with out it dropping out of lift, I know other people who only go out to do a few laps at a time, we'll put very different levels of stress through the car.  This is why I'm replying in a negative manner for someone who's said I want 200bhp for my dedicated track car.

I think eyes should be wide open.

Rogue probably have the most mr2 track experience in the country racing a mk3 in Brit car, they told me when I went from them with a standard rad to keep an eye on temps I did it was a problem.  They tilt the rad and fit a vented bonnet and flat floor up front for the race cars as heat disapations such an issue.

[loadswine]

Well Matt Performance ran the official TTE turbo demonstrator on very many track laps, both as the original format, then slightly upgraded to 240 or so horses, then with track oriented rubber and a host of other bits, probably a baffled sump in there at some point.
It was certainly driven hard and had stock 1zz internals and seemed to last pretty well. Apart from piston ring issues, which can affect a road car as well, if not well serviced, I can't see that the 1zz is that fragile. Yes, you do need to add a few bits if you are tracking regularly, but that would apply for a number of engines I reckon.
2zz s are nice if you can get one at a decent price and do all the necessary bits to enhance its longevity, but that will cost too. I think a well sorted turbo installation on a 1zz should be fine if done properly. Ask Matt, he has a wealth of experience.

[Jubal]

Unless you are building yourself in which case it would be a bit cheeky then follow this advice and speak with Matt. He built mine and is currently handling the winter refresh. After several track days this year my TTE turbo shows no sign of heat related issues but it is suffering the early stages of oil control ring issues. This is luck of the draw and I drive it pretty hard so I'm relatively pleased it's not more serious. It'll be all shiny and ready for me to break in a couple of week's time  s:) s:)   An oil temp gauge is going in this year to help me keep it well.

All cars are a compromise and I fancied a track ready car that looks pretty standard so that I can also use it on the road on sunny days. It has a baffled sump of course, but every track car I've had has had a baffled sump at minimum.