New toy, new problems!

[wallzaveerz]

It does feel as if the engine is being physically restricted, the VVTi bit you've said still makes perfect sense though, if it is not working properly could it be stuck in the closed loop scenario, thus remaining more emissions friendly and not releasing the full potential of the engine?

To add to the conundrum, just returned from the local tame garage owner who very kindly plugged his code reader in for free......no stored faults!!  

I'm heading into town now to a guy he has recommended who specializes in Japanese sports cars as he thinks he may have the equipment to have a deeper dig into things, this is going to cost money now though and I just have the feeling that would be the start of a long slippery slope if I keep the car.  Need to do this one though purely so I know what is actually wrong with the car when I take it back on Wednesday, I wont be taking anything or anybody at face value now.

[Pavett1990]

im sorry to hear about everything thats gone on and im sure will put a dampener on MR2 ownership for you.. hopefully when this guy who is a specialist in jap cars can locate something and could be a relatively easy and cheap fix for you (or should i say the garage).. if worse comes to worst are you going to be taking it back and perhaps look at another MR2?

[wallzaveerz]

Ive had a proper look through its history today, its only done 1500 miles a year between MOTs since 2009, I was told it had come from a little old lady who had traded it in for a freelander as she could no longer get in or out of it.  If its spent the last 4 years of its life at less than 2000rpm and at 28mph and only come out of the garage to go to the shop a few miles away once a week and been serviced in accordance with mileage rather than timescales, its just possible everything is just a bit bunged up.

Lifted my spirits a bit today that there isn't a list of fault codes the length of my arm.  After having the codes checked and leafing through its history I decided to take it out on a proper run and ring its neck to see if that improved things, it is definitely revving more freely now and I've identified at least one of the noises as a tut from the manifold somewhere, and either the chain tensioner or v belt tensioner is rattly but I can live with that for now.

I need to get the gearbox issue dealt with but after today I am certainly more prepared for the dealer to give it a complete engine service and new fluid in the gear box rather than demand replacements immediately.

To answer your question Pavett, if I do return the car I would love to replace it with another roadster, I have even discussed buying another members car already, certainly my heart says yes.  After reading all the horror stories on here though my opinion and personal experience is that the 1zz is a bit of a dog, and my head duly says no.  If I find myself with a wad of cash in my hand and a nice example in front of me I don't know which way I would lean at present.

All I will say is I have definitely bonded with mine in the few hours Ive spent thrashing it round today.

[Pavett1990]

at least you have a better idea mate and you can look to get this resolved hopefully as easily and efficiently as possible..

its good to hear your not so much as put off by your experience and i wish you all the best  s:D s:D

[wallzaveerz]

Hi guys, bit of an update, had the 2 back to the dealer, couldnt find an issue, i have no ammunition as the places I've had it found no stored faults either.  Read a post tonight by colin201, sounds very similar to his, just thrashy and wont rev to 6000rpm, plenty torque low down.  Got absolutely destroyed by a fiesta zetec between roundabouts a few days ago and we have a local checkpoint which involves a junction and a local landmark, anything worth its salt will pull 60 by the landmark, even my previous old barge, a naturally aspirated 2 litre and very very slow Saab 900 convertible could just about manage it, my MR2 can manage about 48!

Just been serviced, oil was ok and on the mark, it doesnt use any, plugs were all ok if showing signs of running slightly lean, they were all at the grey end of brown.  Really baffled, it seems favourite that the VVti isnt working, although it seems to from cold and stops once up to temp.

[loadswine]

Sorry to hear the dealer hasn't fixed it for you. Stored codes are not the only ammunition though, if it doesn't go properly, then there is something wrong with it that they should fix. If the dealer refuses to do anything, then I guess you would need to start investigating things one by one, till you arrive at the solution. Cheapest and easiest is cleaning the Mass Air Flow sensor in the intake. Though it does sound like the main cat could be blocked possibly. How has the oil consumption been?

[Anonymous]

Closed loop when cold. I would look at a maf swop with someone to see if it cures the issue.

[wallzaveerz]

MAF sensor was the first thing I tried, it was spotless to begin with but gave it a good dose of carb cleaner anyway to be sure, i also reset the ECU at the same time, no difference whatsoever.   There is no oil consumption of note, negligible if any at all.  Serviced the car on Tuesday and the oil was still on the mark from when I bought it.

It makes a lot of induction noise when its pulling, as if the top is not on the airbox properly or a pipe has come off somewhere which would also explain the symptoms but I cant find anything that isn't as it should be.

Did find a couple of loose bolts on the cam cover and sealant round the sump when I serviced it so it has obviously been apart at some point in its life, with the inherent faults this engine suffers from in the MR2 and at this age/ mileage I suppose that is to be expected though.

My intention was to pull the manifold off yesterday and have a look at the cats but I got rained off.  It will be the first job on my list on my next day off on Tuesday.  It does feel like it is trying, it seems to attempt to go properly at about 3000rpm then drops back off and it does sometimes pick up considerably at 4K as Im assuming it should but usually only does this for a short time from cold.

As per my previous posts, pretty baffled by it.

[wallzaveerz]

Closed loop when cold. I would look at a maf swop with someone to see if it cures the issue.

Thanks, i will give this a whirl.  It is intermittent which says to me it isnt a blocked cat or a timing issue.

[Zonda_]

When I got mine it had a really cheap induction kit on it and it would stop pulling at 5500rpm.  Replaced induction kit with standard system and it was fine.  I'd decide what route you want to do as you could spend a lot of money chasing the fault.  Speak to your local trading standards and see what they say, it's amazing how places back down when they get involved.

[K T M Rider]

Closed loop when cold. I would look at a maf swop with someone to see if it cures the issue.

Thanks, i will give this a whirl.  It is intermittent which says to me it isnt a blocked cat or a timing issue.

+1 on the MAF swap, other than the lack of error codes, your car sounds very similar to my 1st one:

Bought my W reg. Mk3 3 months ago on Ebay for under 2k (a repaired cat D write off -  rear panel damage) after only about 10 years of wanting one !

I noticed right away that the car was a bit spluttery and hesitant at low speed (felt like it might cut out at junctions unless you kept the revs up) and later discovered that it simply refused to rev above 5500rpm with the engine under load (i.e. in gear). it also just felt underpowered and had generally poor / jerky throttle response.

The CEL was off BUT, I then noticed that it NEVER comes on, (presumably it should light as a self test when you turn on the ignition, like all the other warning lights!!).   s:x :x s:x  

So after a few weeks sulking over having skinted myself just to buy a possible lemon, I decided to invest in a U380 OBD2 code reader for £20 (Ebay).

the U380 came back with the p0171 & p0174 error codes, so (after trawling this forum) I decided to clean the MAF, disconnect the battery for 30 mins and then go for a drive.

The car was virtually undriveable at first, but then just went back to being merely a bit sh*t after a few miles like it was before!

So, I bit the bullet and ordered a new MAF from 'glowpugman' on Ebay as per the above link. Tried an offer of £43 and it was accepted!

Just come back from a 20 mile drive and the car is transformed, was grinning like an idiot from ear to ear as I threaded it round the tighter bends on the local back roads.   s:D s:D  

[wallzaveerz]

Closed loop when cold. I would look at a maf swop with someone to see if it cures the issue.

Thanks, i will give this a whirl.  It is intermittent which says to me it isnt a blocked cat or a timing issue.

+1 on the MAF swap, other than the lack of error codes, your car sounds very similar to my 1st one:

Bought my W reg. Mk3 3 months ago on Ebay for under 2k (a repaired cat D write off -  rear panel damage) after only about 10 years of wanting one !

I noticed right away that the car was a bit spluttery and hesitant at low speed (felt like it might cut out at junctions unless you kept the revs up) and later discovered that it simply refused to rev above 5500rpm with the engine under load (i.e. in gear). it also just felt underpowered and had generally poor / jerky throttle response.

The CEL was off BUT, I then noticed that it NEVER comes on, (presumably it should light as a self test when you turn on the ignition, like all the other warning lights!!).   s:x :x s:x  

So after a few weeks sulking over having skinted myself just to buy a possible lemon, I decided to invest in a U380 OBD2 code reader for £20 (Ebay).

the U380 came back with the p0171 & p0174 error codes, so (after trawling this forum) I decided to clean the MAF, disconnect the battery for 30 mins and then go for a drive.

The car was virtually undriveable at first, but then just went back to being merely a bit sh*t after a few miles like it was before!

So, I bit the bullet and ordered a new MAF from 'glowpugman' on Ebay as per the above link. Tried an offer of £43 and it was accepted!

Just come back from a 20 mile drive and the car is transformed, was grinning like an idiot from ear to ear as I threaded it round the tighter bends on the local back roads.   s:D s:D  

Your description of how your car drove is virtually identical to mine, not getting the fault codes you had which is a bit of a worry but everything else is virtually a carbon copy of how mine is behaving.

I have already had a look on ebay today for a MAF sensor, found a guy local to me who breaks roadsters and he has quoted me £25 for a replacement, he has also extremely kindly offered to let me go and try the new sensor in my car before I buy it to check it is that before I spend any more money.

[K T M Rider]

hope that sorts it out for you, will be the best £25 you ever spend if it does   s:D s:D

[Paul-B]

If you are happy with the bit of a journey your very best bet is to call Matt and arrange a slowish drive down to Brum for him to look it over for you. It may take a while and it may end up with you having to pay out a few notes, but he is THE man when it comes to these cars. Sorted mine out within 10 minutes of meeting him, diagnosed the problem, arranged to do the work (lent me a courtesy car while mine was being worked on) and all completed, including a new clutch, in a week. It now runs like a new car! Mine is a 2000 car with 86K on the clock and had stood for 6 months on SORN. Mattperformance in the Associates section.

Good luck, once it's sorted you will be over the moon with it.

[wallzaveerz]

Good luck, once it's sorted you will be over the moon with it.

I finish work at 6am and on a couple of the very coldest mornings since I bought it it has worked perfectly on the drive home. This morning it was really cold and lo and behold it drove at what I assume is 100%.

The difference is incredible, it is like a different car, "Over the Moon" certainly covers it when it runs like that.

Also reassuring is that it IS capable of doing so, it is intermittent so definitely looking like a something and nothing relatively cheap/ easy fix. Next jobs are pre cats out and replacement MAF sensor. I will update with the results when these have been done.

Again, thanks to everybody for your help.

[krazysteve]

Hi, what temp does it get to?
My son's Soarer had similar issues, found the thermostat sticking causing it to run too rich.

[wallzaveerz]

Sits happily at about the half way mark, not running overly hot, heaters work properly and warm up quite quickly so I would say not pointing to the thermostat.

[wallzaveerz]

Right guys, said id be back with an update after I'd done some work.   Some good news but not the complete happy ending I was waiting for, but progress none the less.

Got round to trying a new MAF sensor this morning, car drove like a bag of  sshit shit sshit  on the way to the guy's place so a good starting point to check for any obvious improvement, on the way there the car wouldn't pull beyond 85 mph on the motorway.   Tried the first replacement MAF sensor and that made things even worse, sounded like it was running on three, so that one went in the bin, a good sign in a way as it proves changing these things can make a fundamental change immediately,  put the second one in and what a difference, ticked over smooth as silk straight away and happily revved round to the red line.

Plugged the code reader in and finally got some codes back from the depths of the ECU, kicking myself that I didn't write down the absolute specifics but the jist of the faults was as follows:-

1st code was a catalyst efficiency issue on the 'first bank???' does that sound right experts??  I guessed at maybe an o2 sensor fault being responsible for that so picked a couple of replacements up while I was there.

2nd code was a camshaft position sensor fault, which also corresponds with how the car drives to me as I've said from day one it feels like a VVti issue.

So, codes cleared,  new MAF sensor fitted I head for home, about 25 miles of motorway driving, initially the car drove like a pig, cut out twice at roundabouts in the first mile, it was so bad I considered turning round and going asking for my money back, but all of a sudden it sorted itself out and started to drive properly, worth noting we never disconnected the battery so the ECU had not been reset at this point.  So now, MASSIVE improvement in throttle response, noticeable step change in performance at 4000rpm, happily revving round in lower gears, I thought we had cracked it.  Get on the motorway, zipping through the gears, huge grin on my face, all is good.......85mph approaches....thud!   Brick wall.    Still doesn't have the guts to pull through 85mph in top......or fourth for that matter!

Bear in mind at this point I still have two replacement o2 sensors to fit, I get home with the days plans consisting of pulling the pre cats out.  Pull my original o2 sensors out, peer inside......someone has beaten me to it.  relief and disappointment in equal measure, relief that I now know why I have no oil burning issues and that somebody has already taken care of business, disappointed that subconsciously i'd been hoping getting rid of broken pre cats would be the miracle cure I craved.  Could the absence of the pre cats be generating the fault code about catalyst efficiency?

Seeing as Ive had an irritating manifold 'tut' since I bought the car and have already invested in 30 quids worth of genuine Toyota gaskets and sealing rings I decided to pull the manifold anyway, glad i did, to say this car has been bodged is an understatement, only two heat shield bolts are left not snapped in, going to do away with the shields altogether and heat wrap the manifold instead, the two brackets under the manifold that bolt to the block were hanging loose,  stripped threads and missing studs abound in the manifold to flexi pipe flange and there has been massive overuse of exhaust paste.

My manifold is now with a local garage, all broken studs will be drilled, removed and re threaded with new studs fitted, I have disconnected the battery overnight,  tomorrow i will reinstall the manifold PROPERLY with gaskets rather than exhaust paste and bolt everything up properly as Toyota intended.

So....lets see what tomorrow brings with a reset ECU, a new MAF sensor that has already proved it improves things, two new o2 sensors and a properly fitted, gas tight exhaust system.   Hoping for a miracle?  probably...a bit.

[cabbydave]

Did you get a camshaft position sensor today as well?

[mrzwei]

1st code was a catalyst efficiency issue on the 'first bank???' does that sound right experts??  I guessed at maybe an o2 sensor fault being responsible for that so picked a couple of replacements up while I was there.

2nd code was a camshaft position sensor fault, which also corresponds with how the car drives to me as I've said from day one it feels like a VVti issue.

Happy days   s:lol: :lol: s:lol:  

Bucks mentioned a few posts back a faulty crank position sensor which doesn't throw a code BUT it could show as a faulty cam sensor (that's what can happen on my Z3).
Or, it could in fact be the cam sensor which would cause the sort of problems you have (that's also what happened with my Z3).

The O2 sensors have a pretty narrow window of operation and just wouldn't cause the problem you are getting.

[wallzaveerz]

No, a bit in the dark as to this side of things.  Wont be an issue to revisit and get one, where is it located and how can i check it?   Guy I got the bits off by his own admission is not a mechanic, strips broken Mk3s and sells the bits.  Has basic knowledge but doesn't profess to being a mechanic.   Ironically I am a qualified mechanic and time served heavy goods fitter but still no specific model knowledge on the MR2 roadster.

[wallzaveerz]

1st code was a catalyst efficiency issue on the 'first bank???' does that sound right experts??  I guessed at maybe an o2 sensor fault being responsible for that so picked a couple of replacements up while I was there.

2nd code was a camshaft position sensor fault, which also corresponds with how the car drives to me as I've said from day one it feels like a VVti issue.

Happy days  :.:

Bucks mentioned a few posts back a faulty crank position sensor which doesn't throw a code BUT it could show as a faulty cam sensor (that's what can happen on my Z3).
Or, it could in fact be the cam sensor which would cause the sort of problems you have (that's also what happened with my Z3).

The O2 sensors have a pretty narrow window of operation and just wouldn't cause the problem you are getting.

Is this another pretty easy something or nothing fix.  Sick of chasing gremlins round the system.

[cabbydave]

If you want to come over and change the sensers one weekend give me a shout. I've ordered the toyota tis software and lead but dont know when it will arrive but have a elm reader that can also log what the car is doing on the road as well. Like I said ive got a complete engine here with all the sensers on it that were working I know its not the best way to diagnose a problem but if it gets sorted by changing one part at a time wtf. I know where you went today the guy wont let you have the part unless he knows it works or if it fails he will change it. Whats the car like if you give it full beans in the lower gears as mine doesn't half come to life after 4000 in top gear nearly as good as my old 944.

[mrzwei]

1st code was a catalyst efficiency issue on the 'first bank???' does that sound right experts??  I guessed at maybe an o2 sensor fault being responsible for that so picked a couple of replacements up while I was there.

2nd code was a camshaft position sensor fault, which also corresponds with how the car drives to me as I've said from day one it feels like a VVti issue.

Happy days  :.:

Bucks mentioned a few posts back a faulty crank position sensor which doesn't throw a code BUT it could show as a faulty cam sensor (that's what can happen on my Z3).
Or, it could in fact be the cam sensor which would cause the sort of problems you have (that's also what happened with my Z3).

The O2 sensors have a pretty narrow window of operation and just wouldn't cause the problem you are getting.

Is this another pretty easy something or nothing fix.  Sick of chasing gremlins round the system.

The code reader shows a camshaft position sensor fault, the symptoms you describe are consistent with a cam position sensor fault ( runs ok one minute then next time it's a dog) and you say it feels like a valve timing issue. Personally, I'd check the crank sensor first (on the clutch side of the engine I think and down a bit, wiggle the connector and spray some electrical stuff). Crank sensor faults are usually on / off.  Then the cam sensor, don't know where that is because I sold the car but I had the exact problem on the Z3 and a new one solved the problem.

[Anonymous]

The reason I said crank sensor is due to its Postion and has been seen before that alot of corosion builds up around it.

On a side note I do find it funny how we talk about a guy without saying his name as he use to be a member lol.