Improve BHP without turbo

[swampy_donkey]

Hi guys,

I was just wondering the best way to improve BHP without the addition of a turbo kit. I'm quite new to all this and the search turns up too many confusing responses.

Any responses much appreciated.

Many thanks

Rob

[Wabbitkilla]

Quite expensively   s:wink: :wink: s:wink:  
 l viewtopic.php?f=7&t=27521 l

[Andys-N20]

Depends on how much you are planning on adding.
Looking at the link 'Wabbitkilla' gave you I divert your attention to the post by 'MR 2ster'

Age of Car:
2000 Original Engine

Miles completed:
54,000

Engine Mods:
None

Induction Mods:
Markiii induction pipe.......                          You can use silicon hose etc so this could be as little as £15.00
TOM's Panel Filter.......                                A branded panel filter is about £30-£40
Slightly tweaked induction pipe.......           Not sure what this mod was

Exhaust Mods:
Decatted manifold.......                               You can do that for free
Apexi N1 exhaust.......                                 Second hand sports exhaust could be about £200 ish

Engine Electronics:
Dastek Unichip......                              I think this will only make about 3 BHP so you should be looking at about 155BHP without it
Iridium spark plugs.......                             about £25

Mapping:
Not yet!

All other components fitted to the car are handling related - springs and bracing etc.

Performance:
157.4 BHP
140 Lb Ft at 4400 RPM
7000 rev limit

Give the car a service and clean the MAF ontop of this to restore lost power and you could be looking at about 153 - 155 BHP for about £350
After that I think every pony is going to cost you dearly .
Then you have weight loss, some people remove the spare wheel etc...

[swampy_donkey]

Depends on how much you are planning on adding.
Looking at the link 'Wabbitkilla' gave you I divert your attention to the post by 'MR 2ster'

Age of Car:
2000 Original Engine

Miles completed:
54,000

Engine Mods:
None

Induction Mods:
Markiii induction pipe.......                          You can use silicon hose etc so this could be as little as £15.00
TOM's Panel Filter.......                                A branded panel filter is about £30-£40
Slightly tweaked induction pipe.......           Not sure what this mod was

Exhaust Mods:
Decatted manifold.......                               You can do that for free
Apexi N1 exhaust.......                                 Second hand sports exhaust could be about £200 ish

Engine Electronics:
Dastek Unichip......                              I think this will only make about 3 BHP so you should be looking at about 155BHP without it
Iridium spark plugs.......                             about £25

Mapping:
Not yet!

All other components fitted to the car are handling related - springs and bracing etc.

Performance:
157.4 BHP
140 Lb Ft at 4400 RPM
7000 rev limit

Give the car a service and clean the MAF ontop of this to restore lost power and you could be looking at about 153 - 155 BHP for about £350
After that I think every pony is going to cost you dearly .
Then you have weight loss, some people remove the spare wheel etc...

Thanks so much, this was ecactly what I was looking for. The cheaper the better. What silicon hose can be used instead?

I just replaced the air filter too,damn, well it was only £8 so no big loss. I didn't realise they made such a big difference. £400+ for a chip seems excessive though. I would be interested in a new exhaust system though. I didn't realise iridium plugs gave better performance, just improved longevity.

Many thanks for your help.

Rob

[nathanMR2]

There's been some recent chat about this here which might help...

 l viewtopic.php?f=7&t=45938 l

[swampy_donkey]

Thanks Nathan. Can any eBay unichip be re-mapped to an MR2?

[Andys-N20]

Thanks so much, this was ecactly what I was looking for. The cheaper the better. What silicon hose can be used instead?

I just replaced the air filter too,damn, well it was only £8 so no big loss. I didn't realise they made such a big difference. £400+ for a chip seems excessive though. I would be interested in a new exhaust system though. I didn't realise iridium plugs gave better performance, just improved longevity.

Many thanks for your help.

Rob

Each of the mods add only tiny power increases in BHP, Iridium plugs don't make much difference unless the one's you have are 'on the way out'.
But combined the above mods make a noticeable difference. Defiantly will sound better... This is my old car with similar mods on YouTube:
 m http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNewM7_EaZs m
On my old car I used a 45 degree bend silicon hose and replaced the restrictive section. This is the one I used:
 m http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll? ... OC:GB:3160 m
As I said any more power you will have to pay dearly for every BHP. Getting a chip will make a few ponies and then getting it mapped will make a few more but the cost to BHP gained, you have to ask is it worth it as you could splash out on a 2ZZ or a turbo.

[stargazer30]

On the flip side my MR2 with a markiii pipe, unichip,exhaust back box and K&N panel filter only made 137bhp   s:cry: :cry: s:cry:    Mind you I dont trust the dyno it was on anymore after the mr2 and my 2 preivous cars all made low numbers on it and they just so happen to sell remaps.

[mrzwei]

Interesting thread. It just shows really how efficient modern engines have become. In the 'old days' you could skim 100 thou off the head of an 'A' series, match and polish the ports, fit larger inlet valves, fit a long duration hi lift cam and a Webber carb and get a massive increase in bhp. You just can't do that now unless you go turbo.

The big, big plus of the turbo is the increase in torque rather than bhp.

[Andys-N20]

On the flip side my MR2 with a markiii pipe, unichip,exhaust back box and K&N panel filter only made 137bhp   s:cry: :cry: s:cry:    Mind you I dont trust the dyno it was on anymore after the mr2 and my 2 preivous cars all made low numbers on it and they just so happen to sell remaps.

137 at the wheels? So at the flywheel over 150?
A little off topic... but 'stargazer30'... Your guide on the edge 306 speakers was really useful, I did the same thing less the sub and amp. So thanks   s:D s:D

[eynonz]

Each of the mods add only tiny power increases in BHP, Iridium plugs don't make much difference unless the one's you have are 'on the way out'.
But combined the above mods make a noticeable difference. Defiantly will sound better... This is my old car with similar mods on YouTube:
 m http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNewM7_EaZs m
On my old car I used a 45 degree bend silicon hose and replaced the restrictive section. This is the one I used:
 m http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll? ... OC:GB:3160 m
As I said any more power you will have to pay dearly for every BHP. Getting a chip will make a few ponies and then getting it mapped will make a few more but the cost to BHP gained, you have to ask is it worth it as you could splash out on a 2ZZ or a turbo.

What did you use that 45 degree silicon bend for? Is that instead of the Markiii pipe?

[Andys-N20]

What did you use that 45 degree silicon bend for? Is that instead of the Markiii pipe?

It was as I was unable to find markiii pipes at the time. I looked on google and flebay and no luck.
It seems that there are group buys for them every now and again so that's the best option. But on a budget silicon hose will work.

[swampy_donkey]

What did you use that 45 degree silicon bend for? Is that instead of the Markiii pipe?

It was as I was unable to find markiii pipes at the time. I looked on google and flebay and no luck.
It seems that there are group buys for them every now and again so that's the best option. But on a budget silicon hose will work.

Excellent idea, was it easy to fit?

[stargazer30]

What did you use that 45 degree silicon bend for? Is that instead of the Markiii pipe?

It was as I was unable to find markiii pipes at the time. I looked on google and flebay and no luck.
It seems that there are group buys for them every now and again so that's the best option. But on a budget silicon hose will work.

Excellent idea, was it easy to fit?

You can also buy a superflex heat proof rubber hose with steel helix too pretty cheap off ebay.  I got a section for £20 long enough to do 2 x MR2s.  Then you just need some jubelle clips.

[Reme]

+1 Same as above. Lot cheaper and as affective.

[ant0]

You can also buy a superflex heat proof rubber hose with steel helix too pretty cheap off ebay.  I got a section for £20 long enough to do 2 x MR2s.  Then you just need some jubelle clips.

What diameter do you need to get (and whatever it is is that inner or outer diameter)?

[swampy_donkey]

Is it 76mm diameter?

Found this

 m http://www.asap-supplies.com/marine/mar ... 412576-050 m

Any good? Would 0.5m be enough?

Thanks in advance.

[swampy_donkey]

I've also been looking at K and N parts, the 57i-9002 looks like a decent modification. What do people think?

[Sonner34]

i would have thought would ribbed piping like seen above it would cause a poor air flow, a smooth pipe would allow the air to flow smoothly through rather than the ribbed pipe which i'm sure would be very disruptive. probably still an improvement on the stanard, just would rather a smooth pipe.

[mrzwei]

i would have thought would ribbed piping like seen above it would cause a poor air flow, a smooth pipe would allow the air to flow smoothly through rather than the ribbed pipe which i'm sure would be very disruptive. probably still an improvement on the stanard, just would rather a smooth pipe.

That's an interesting point.
The standard intake pipe probably narrows for a reason. A venture effect is created causing the air to flow faster as it enters the airbox; there will be a drop in pressure at that point but the kinetic energy in the air will be higher.
The 'straight through' Mark iii type pipe will have a lower air entry speed as it enters the airbox but a higher pressure and lower energy.
My simplistic interpretation of that is that is that the oe pipe will generate slightly more low end torque and that the 'straight through' pipe will transfer that slightly up the rev range.
If the piping is ribbed on the inside then there will be significant flow  turbulence which may affect both flow speed, pressure and energy.

That could be rowlocks so we now need the person with the degree in Physics.  s:lol: :lol: s:lol:  

(I doubt that you could actually notice the difference when driving but I thought when I fitted my Mark iii that the mid range pull was marginally better).

[AndyM]

My simplistic interpretation of that is that is that the oe pipe will generate slightly more low end torque and that the 'straight through' pipe will transfer that slightly up the rev range.

Interestingly one of the only benefits I felt I got on performance by fitting a Markiii pipe was the low end torque seemed slightly better.   s:? :? s:?  

No physics degree here to back it up though (only an A-level  s;) s;)  ).

[swampy_donkey]

i would have thought would ribbed piping like seen above it would cause a poor air flow, a smooth pipe would allow the air to flow smoothly through rather than the ribbed pipe which i'm sure would be very disruptive. probably still an improvement on the stanard, just would rather a smooth pipe.

That's an interesting point.
The standard intake pipe probably narrows for a reason. A venture effect is created causing the air to flow faster as it enters the airbox; there will be a drop in pressure at that point but the kinetic energy in the air will be higher.
The 'straight through' Mark iii type pipe will have a lower air entry speed as it enters the airbox but a higher pressure and lower energy.
My simplistic interpretation of that is that is that the oe pipe will generate slightly more low end torque and that the 'straight through' pipe will transfer that slightly up the rev range.
If the piping is ribbed on the inside then there will be significant flow  turbulence which may affect both flow speed, pressure and energy.

That could be rowlocks so we now need the person with the degree in Physics.  s:lol: :lol: s:lol:  

(I doubt that you could actually notice the difference when driving but I thought when I fitted my Mark iii that the mid range pull was marginally better).

I think a degree in fluid dynamics!

[mrzwei]

Sorry, false post, just wanted to correct my spelling of venturi and quoted by mistake.

Think you're right about fluid dynamics.

[swampy_donkey]

So after all of this, I see a few options available to me:

1. Do nothing.

2. K&N panel filter + Markiii pipe

3. K&N panel filter + helix tubing

4. K&N panel filter only

5. K&N full intake kit

Thoughts?

[AndyM]

I have your option 2 and am happy with it. However without other components and a map I  think the effect on horsepower is negligible.

Option 5 is probably the way to getting a couple  more ponies (with a map) but I believe if you're going down the intake route there may be better options available.