Another newbie with doubts

Wilderman · October 3, 2013, 10:36

First off, Hello to everyone. Ive been checking this forum for a couple of weeks but only just registered and you can probably guess why! Yes, im worried about my mr2.
Ill try to be brief. I bought a 2003 Mr2 with 86k on the clock from a dealer two weeks ago. It had mostly toyota history even though the records of the past two years servicing were missing. Didnt notice on the test drive but on the way home from picking it up I noticed a light rattling/ticking sound. First thing i did was take it to a toyota dealer for service and a check of this sound. They reckoned the sound was from the manifold heat shield that, sure enough, had a broken bolt. They said everything else was ok.
Now since it was serviced, where the oil level was obviously full (i did check) ive done 150 miles. When i checked the oil level again its definatley dropped to a quarter full so by my calculations its used 0.7 litres of oil in 150 miles! Apart from that sound the engine appears to be running fine and pulling (surprisingly) well. Is it rebuild time?

Anonymous · October 3, 2013, 10:54

That amount in that time I would go back and get my money back.

andyhull · October 3, 2013, 11:05

How long have you had the car ? and what warrenty did the dealer give you ? As just posted by rbuckingham I would be asking for dosh back.
Any car losing that kind of oil has a major issue

dcod · October 3, 2013, 11:33

Quote from: "andyhull"How long have you had the car ?

QuoteI bought a 2003 Mr2 with 86k on the clock from a dealer two weeks ago.

Time to take it back.

Wilderman · October 3, 2013, 12:04

It was from an independent dealer so do I have any rights? If the engine is that bad why is it running so well? Wouldn't Toyota have noticed?

tomaky · October 3, 2013, 12:09

The only sign generally is smoke coming out of the exhaust until you cover miles it is hard to tell.

Andys-N20 · October 3, 2013, 12:14

If they are a respectable dealer they will not sell it on as-is and will advertise it as an oil burner. They will thus sell it for less. So if you like the car (but not the oil consumption) then you should be able to negotiate with them a partial refund. You can use that to put towards a rebuild knowing that a top end rebuild is going to be better than getting a refund and buying another MR2 that may possibly (but unlikely) be as bad.
Might be worth thinking about rebuilding this one.

Anonymous · October 3, 2013, 12:34

Modern oils show less sign of burning, but most likely oil control rings have gone.

Also if your Toyota is like my local Toyota then you might as well take it to the local pre school and ask the kids to fix it.

dcod · October 3, 2013, 12:39

I burned 1l every 1000mls and never saw blue smoke ... fully synthetic oil?

Bernie · October 3, 2013, 13:28

An independent dealer may well have taken it as a trade in and now moving it on maybe doesn't know about the potential oil usage issues

At that rate of use odds on it's going to need significant work either rebuild or new short block

Either way after 2 weeks it's not fit for purpose / of merchantable standard take it back and if any aggro Trading Standards would be next option

Wabbitkilla · October 3, 2013, 13:39

If it were a Toyota dealer with reasonable warranty I would have said monitor it a little longer and record how much oil it uses. If it's been stood for a while then the could have absorbed a small amount of condensation and give an indication of oil use that is basically the oil "drying out".

As it's an independent dealer then you likely have a very short time to deal with this so I have to say, regrettably, you need to take it back and reject it. Oil use is only ever going to get worse and the only cure is a full rebuild replacing items that are worn or and at least glaze busting the bores, there is no magic ingredient that makes it go away. Even if you try anything else the seller could claim what you've done invalidates any warranty and you're stuck with the car. If you had got the car mega-cheap you could have had Matt do a rebuild for you and end up with a known quantity.

Wilderman · October 3, 2013, 16:28

Thanks for replys & advice. I managed to get toyota to have another look & they seem.fairly convinced that its the cam chain tensioner seal causing oil loss. They did admit it seemed a lot of loss just for that but didnt seem to want to check.any more til it was done. So im going to do it myself & see how it goes for the sake of a £4 seal.

mrzwei · October 3, 2013, 18:00

I hope that sorts your problem out.
By using 'third parties' and with diy your rights under the Sale of Goods act diminish.
You have to refer the problem to the dealer (seller) as soon as possible and give THEM the opportunity to sort things out. If they refuse then, as mentioned, Trading Standards etc.

If the seal doesn't solve the problem then forget Toyota and the diy and just take the car back to the dealer who sold it to you and forget to mention those bits.

Hopefully that won't be necessary.

BARNPOT · October 3, 2013, 19:29

Please let us know how you get on...useful info. for everyone! s:wink: :wink: s:wink:

andyroo104 · October 3, 2013, 19:47

Cannot see the seal being the problem as your engine would be covered in oil on that location,I had the same problem with my 2003 car with only 76,000 miles on the engine and the only solution is a complete rebuild or short block as has been stated,so get it back to the dealer ASAP.
Andy.

Wabbitkilla · October 3, 2013, 19:50

Oil would have to be pi--ing out of the tensioner to achieve the loss you've seen.

Andys-N20 · October 3, 2013, 20:11

Quote from: "Wabbitkilla"Oil would have to be pi--ing out of the tensioner to achieve the loss you've seen.

+1

Bernie · October 3, 2013, 20:30

Quote from: "Wilderman"Thanks for replys & advice. I managed to get toyota to have another look & they seem.fairly convinced that its the cam chain tensioner seal causing oil loss. They did admit it seemed a lot of loss just for that but didnt seem to want to check.any more til it was done. So I'm going to do it myself & see how it goes for the sake of a £4 seal.

No way is that level of loss the tensioner seal

I really think you should just take it back and either let them carry out any remedial work or get your money back, the more you may do as others have said you jeopardise any chance you have of redress with the dealer.

You really proceed down any other route now at your own risk just not worth it IMO

mrzwei · October 3, 2013, 22:21

Quote from: "rbuckingham"Also if your Toyota is like my local Toyota then you might as well take it to the local pre school and ask the kids to fix it.

Just thought I'd nominate my quote of the month s:lol: :lol: s:lol:

Wilderman · October 3, 2013, 23:10

I have my doubts about the tensioner seal being the problem too. There was no warranty with the car so im not sure what rights id have if I took it back? What confuses me most is that if its burning that much oil then why cant I see plumes of smoke? Anyway, ill let you all know when I sort things out

mrzwei · October 3, 2013, 23:20

You need to record exactly how much oil you are using.
Toyota said that more than a litre of oil in less than a 1000 miles, was excessive for cars 7 years old and this is well documented.
That level of consumption led to replacement short blocks and acknowledged that there was a fundamental design fault in the engine.
All dealers, independent or not, know this and can't 'pass it off'. This should have been drawn to your attention at the point of sale.

Bernie · October 4, 2013, 07:16

Quote from: "Wilderman"I have my doubts about the tensioner seal being the problem too. There was no warranty with the car so I'm not sure what rights id have if I took it back? What confuses me most is that if its burning that much oil then why cant I see plumes of smoke? Anyway, ill let you all know when I sort things out

Quote from: rbuckinghamModern oils show less sign of burning, but most likely oil control rings have gone.

Regardless of no warranty you have rights under the sale of goods act please get straight back to them now before any more time goes by it has to be fit for purpose, clearly it's not.

It's their responsibility to either put it right or refund

I know I was there with my 1st 2 so please take it back now

Jon_G · October 4, 2013, 07:33

If it's burning oil, then the exhaust hydro-carbon (HC) content will be correspondingly high. This can be read by most garages, particularly those who perform MoT testing as it is part of the test. You would then, at least, be armed with proof that the engine is an oil-burner. I can't comment, but many suggest that synthetic oils do not produce a lot of exhaust smoke when burning, so maybe that's why you aren't seeing clouds of smoke behind you?

Mightyquin · October 4, 2013, 09:48

STOP!

Don't do any work to the car yourself, or you may end up complicating things further.

I would top up the oil to the full mark (make certain, let the oil settle etc) and go for a couple hundred mile drive. Check oil again. If it's lost oil again then drive straight back to the dealer.

Explain you had an oil change after buying the car, that it's losing/burning oil, and mention the sale of goods act if they get funny about it. You may have to take them to court under that act if they refuse to help you - worst case scenario.

Wilderman · October 4, 2013, 23:13

Well ive decided to follow advice & hold off doing any work myself until ive contacted the dealer. I tried ringing them today but I just got an answer machine telling me the owners on holiday until tuesday so I left a message. Also sent an email. The frustrating thing is thats its such a fun car to drive & its supposed to be a sunny weekend!
By the way thanks again for all advice, its much appreciated.