The appliance of turbo science!!!

[450-hp turbo man]

Wye is increasing power with a turbo much saffer than any other type of tunning!!! Take a stock 1zz add 15 psi of boost and you more than boubble the power but only increase the loading by around 8%!! Useing 1000 more rpm N/A on the other hand would increase loading by 36 % plus the turbo rout is compressive load but N/A load increase is tensile stress!! And would only yeld 30 ish hp!! How's this possible I here you ask!! Well if anyone is intrested I'll do a quick wright up !!!

[snap3]

I think it's awesome that you are willing to contribute to the community, But please use proper writing!

[450-hp turbo man]

Yer sorry about that but I do most posts on my I phone and it does some stupid predictive stuff and my spelling isn't great anyway Lol, how ever I have been in the performance and diagnostic business for a long time and am quite happy to help fellow members with anything I can!!! But if my spelling offends people then there's not a lot I can do about that!!! Sorry !!!

[Jandaw]

I think it's awesome that you are willing to contribute to the community, But please use proper writing!

+1

If I can barely decipher your comments how can someone whose whose first language is not English?

As for the logic?    s:scared: :scared: s:scared:

[Anonymous]

why the negative comments, someone offers info and all you can do is slag them off.

[mrzwei]

Not sure where this thread might end but I find it quite offensive when people start commenting on things like spelling. It's a car forum and if you don't understand the post then ignore it. Branson is dyslexic but he managed to make a couple of quid.

I'd have a word with Nathan about getting something in the affiliates section.

[450-hp turbo man]

Thanks guys, appreciate support  s:) s:)  as for the !! Logic !! If you truly understand how the internall combustion engine makes power then you wouldn't be questioning the !! Logic !! That I'm explaining about!! And as for not being able to disifer my post! We'll is it really that bad? I think not, anyway if there's anyone out there who can disifer my terrible English Lol and wants to know the reall attributes of making power with forced induction then let me know!!

[Micha]

I completely agree with turbo man (comparing values in relative) in what concerns the connecting rod load N/A vs Turbo! That is completely true   s:wink: :wink: s:wink:  

Nevertheless, turbo brings more heat and the piston, rings and valves are quite sensitive if not designed properly in order to evacuate the heat (valves for instance).

Even though you use an excellent air cooler, and you dont go crazy with ignition advance, the heat will be there...

Without speaking about the 1ZZ lubrication, with 300 mbar (4.35 PSI) oil pressure when idling which goes even lower after pushing the engine a bit harder. Knowing that the oil is going through the turbo, it is heated even more and its viscosity is going down...

All that to say that boosting an engine is a relevant solution (as a turbo enthusiast I will not say the opposite), although 15psi with OEM internals, without touching anything, would be as reliable as the F1 engines in 1984.

Just to say that with 200Ft.lb an 1ZZ engine will be just below 20 bar of BMEP (stock : ~12), and that cannot be without any consequence. And to get 200Ft.lb you do not need to push as hard as 15PSI...

[markiii]

could it be because you have a financial interest in it being better?

 l viewtopic.php?f=7&t=47659 l

[Micha]

I said something wrong?

[s12vea]

I said something wrong?

No micha your post was fine.

Mark was just pointing out he is developing a turbo kit he wishes to sell.

[450-hp turbo man]

We'll put micha, and yes dead right heat is a two edged sword, but heat can be managed and 10 psi is a good pressure to run on stock internals, and markiii as far as it only being better cos I have a financial interest in it is some wot amusing! Cos the kit I'm developing at the moment would be roughly at cost cos I would like the feed back and it's a good way of finding wot does and does not work!!! And N/A tunning is far more expensive with very little gains!! Anyway only opens this thread to help people understand a bit more and hopefully learn a thing or to on the way, cos we all can learn from others regardless of back ground and past experance!! You never know I may even learn to spell   s:lol: :lol: s:lol:

[Anonymous]

personnally i would have the title about all performance science. Regardless of money gain. For us all to know more about the physics so we all have more of an ability of making our own tuning.

With regards to the math in all cases the colder the air, the denser it is so more air is able to get into the stroke of the piston. Be interesting to see what gain an NA would get from a charge cooler added on.

[450-hp turbo man]

That's something I mite try richard, and then add water meth kit cos both are quite cheap and easy mods!! And I know my bike feels a lot more responsive on a cold morning than it does warm afternoon!!!

[Wabbitkilla]

[MOD] Ok gents, if we could just get one or two things out in the open here;
1. You must use proper English on the forum, "cos" etc is not proper English, we have members in foreign countries whos first language is not English.
2. Commercial interest is a question that is valid but maybe we will get more from the conversation if we stick to comparing NA tuning to turbo tuning, i.e. if you take a standard engine to 8000rpm then you are likely to get some valve bounce and considering the standard cams run out of steam before the oem redline then there seems little point trying to go higher.
3. If this thread is judged again to be heading in promoting commercial gain, it will be removed.
[/MOD]

[450-hp turbo man]

Here's a little bit of fact that's not so obvious at first, the reason an engine that's boosted makes loads more torque and doesn't put loads more stress on the components is as follows ! Take the peak cylinder pressure on an N/A engine with standard comp and it's about 9300 ish psi if you add 1 bar of boost that peak only rises to 10700 psi so the increase is only about 8% but the power output is doubled and the reason Is that the burn lasts much longer into the stroke, tuners allways aim for peak cylinder pressure at about 14-18 degree atdc at witch piont the piston is stationary!! That force then pushes the piston down but the angle of crank is not giving good leaverage! Then the piston starts to accelerate very quick down the bore and the pressure decreases very rapidly to the piont were at 90 deg witch is best angle for torque the pressure has droper to less than 2500 psi so not much torque then!! Now same engine with boost has only 1400 ish more peak pressure about 8% but as piston accelerates down the bore the burn lasts much longer and the pressure stays just under peak all the way past 90deg were best leaverage is occurring !! Hope that makes sense to you all   s:crazyeyes: :crazyeyes: s:crazyeyes:

[Micha]

When you compare maximal cylinder pressure, you do not say if the engine is at knock limit or iso-ignition advance (higher octan number)...

Just to compare comparable.

The fact that the higher engine speed puts lot more stress in the connecting rod (extension) than the boost (compression). And to make what you says useful, it means that the connecting rod choice is different whether it is for N/A high rev engine or for turbo application.
The same for bearings... some high speed NA engines have different material for upper and lower shell, and boosting this kind of engine is a bit more tricky in a mechanical sense...

[450-hp turbo man]

Same fuel and tuned for best "safe" power!! Wouldn't tune to close to detonation limit because to many variables and always best to play safe, so for comparison all is equal !!

[Micha]

My thought was about parameters which have strong influence on cylinder pressure, and ignition advance is the n°1.

So I cannot agree with you on that particular point but I will not insiste.

My question about ignition advance was to say you have the same engine, the same ignition advance and you use higher octan number to reach the same advance without knock.

As I said I will not insist.

This topic could be very interesting with experience comparison, test reports... but if it is just about repeating what is written in many books about boost...

[450-hp turbo man]

I can see were your going with the pressure vs timing but regardless of comp ratio,and timing peak cylinder pressure can only go do high before you get detonation, if you lower the comp from say 10-1 were you can run 18 deg at 10 psi to 8.5-1 you can run about 8 or 10 deg more timing at same boost but peak cylinder pressure will be almost the same!! Or you can run 8.5-1 and 20 psi but would need less timing to stop detonation but would have slightly higher cylinder peak and much more pressure at 90 deg atdc because burn would be much longer!! And as far as seeing real world tests and not getting any info from wots been done for many years ( ie ) books on boost an such, would be pointless because a lot of the hard work has already been done, but this post is for people who don't build engines or do own turbo conversions to help them understand how it works!!

[450-hp turbo man]

Just like to clear up this commercial promoting accusation have I at any piont offered any type of service for commercial gain! No I have not, am I trying to help fellow members of this club with the very complex task of gaining power and enjoy there car's that bit more then yes! But I thought that's wot car clubs are about? Just because I'm in the motor trade doesn't mean I have to be a commercial  enterprise to offer "free" advice and I have at no time given my company name or number to anyone, so not quite sure we're the problem is!! However if I'm braking any rules I apologise and won't comment on subject anymore!!

[cptspaulding]

450-hp turbo man just sounds to me like an enthusiast who happens to do for a living what he enjoys.

I might be subconsciously jealous of that but I appreciate your input to the forums & your ideas, bro.

Interesting reading  s:) s:)

[450-hp turbo man]

 s:D s:D  No problem mate, glad you enjoy!! And yes your right I do for a living the same thing I enjoy as an enthusiast, well one of many Lol, boys and there toys ha, well if I don't get a slap on the rist or a ban then I'll just carrey on  s:D s:D

[shnazzle]

I'm lost already. Which is making me want to know more!!
I wish I made the decision to make this stuff my profession years ago..

I'd love a beginners guide to tuning  s:) s:)  or rather, beginners guide to engine mechanics with the necessary dose of thermodynamics and the likes.

One fair comment; spelling is indeed awful but I can understand what you're saying. So all in all, thumbs up to this thread from me.

[450-hp turbo man]

Haha yep spelling is awful, But hay thats me! to be onist a few years back I would have never come on a site like this because Iv always been embarrassed   s:oops: :oops: s:oops:  about my inability to spell! but from the age of about 8 or so all I ever wanted to do was learn how to take things apart ie engines Lol and make them work again, but after a few years of repairing and rebuilding standard stuff then commercial's I got in with some guys who raced hot rods and that was it hooked on making as much power as possible, so as much as my parents tried to get me to do well at school they failed miserably ! as you can tell ! but now Im a bit well a lot older I think hey you are wot you are so here I am just indulging in wot I love   s:D s:D    s:D s:D